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Nineswords
13-09-2005, 15:25
The Shadow Lord of Reikland
Master Necromancer 185
+ Lvl 4 Magic 35
Cloak Of Mists & Shadows 45
Obsidian Amulet 45
TOTAL 300 points

Wraith 90

Wraith 90

Necromancer 65
+ Lvl 2 Magic 35
+ 25 Dispel Scroll
+ 15 Spell Familiar
140
CORE
20 Skeletons, Full Command 185
Spears (20) 205

20 Skeletons, Full Command 185

20 Skeletons, Full Command 185

SPECIAL
19 Grave Guard
Halberds, Shield 285
Banner Of The Barrows 45
Full Command 30
360

Sprit Host X 4 260

RARE
2 Banshees 180

1995 points

Simple concept really: I was toying with a Von Carstein or a Blood Dragon list and the Obsidian Amulet/Cloak combo was too good to resist so I built an army around that emphasising magic and psychology. This list wont fare too well against demon armies or elves I dont think, but any comments would be appreciated.

I see the Master Necromancer pretty much owning the magic phase and unleashing all kinds of nastiness. The other Necromancer is there for magic support and to essentially cast another Invocation. Wraiths and Banshees basically float around the field and scare everyone off whilst the Skeles/Graveguard and Spirit hosts hold and hopefully break units in combat.

Any comments? Otherwise ill be knocking up a BD or VC list instead...

Vosk
13-09-2005, 16:49
If you're going without a Vampire n favour of the Master Necromancer then you really have to own the magic phase. To ensure this, I say drop one Wraith and get a second Necromancer, with extra level, Dispel Scroll and book or Arkhan (with this you could magically move your other Wraith much closer to your enemy, causing those Terror tests much sooner than they thought. Remember that Terror only ever works once (unless you are a certain Chaotic demigod...), so investing too much in it is probably a mistake.

The Black Periapt is probably a better choice than a spell familiar, unless you are hoping for a very specific spell.

It does look fairly solid though - my only other advice is to drop a few Skeletons from each unit to tool the rest up a bit more. You'll be using your Necromancers to bolst the units throughout the game, so small units to start off with aren't such a bad thing. A unit of 10 Zombies next to your Master Necromancer's unit also serves a similar purpose - he can always throw in a few more Zombies every so often if there are any dice left.

Nineswords
13-09-2005, 17:19
Some good comments - I thought about taking the Black Periapt originally, but if I was going to try and use all my dice every phase, but keeping one for the next phase could prove particularly handy, now Im taking your advice and getting another Necromancer.

I want to keep 20 graveguard, to last me the entire game, as I cant regnerate these, but Ill probably end up dropping 4 skeletons for the three units I do have to make a 4X4 unit for maximum combat bonuses - or do you think I should even maybe drop it down to 12?

Ill look into it once ive done some number crunching.

Thanks for the advice.

Nineswords
13-09-2005, 19:32
***REVISED LIST***

The Shadow Lord of Reikland
Master Necromancer
+ Lvl 4 Magic
Cloak Of Mists & Shadows
Obsidian Amulet
TOTAL 300 points

Wraith 90 points

Necromancer
Lvl 2 Magic
Dispel Scroll
Black Periapt 140 points

Necromancer
Lvl 2 Magic
Book of Arkhan 125 points

CORE

20 Skeletons, Full Command
Spears (20) 205 points

15 Skeletons, Full Command 145 points

15 Skeletons, Full Command 145 points

5 Dire Wolves 50 points

SPECIAL
19 Grave Guard
Halberds, Shield
Banner Of The Barrows
Full Command
360 points

Sprit Host X 4 260 points

RARE
2 Banshees 180 points

2000 points

I took your advice and weighed up the options. Black Book makes sense since I dont have the points to stick my wraith on a nightmare, but I can use it to shuffle some more units if I have to.

I dropped 5 skeletons from each of the sword units but a 5+ save is good enough without light armour for them (not worth the points in my view). Ive added a Dire Wolves unit as a screen for the graveguard unit or to take on pesky war machines.

I see this as a pretty tidy list that will wreak havoc in the magic phase (14 power dice a turn!) and fustrating for the enemy as theyll have to content with a more than usual amount of ethereal creatures, including the general - if I wounds then I suppose a successful invocation should regenerate my wounds from one of my necromancers - OUCH!

Does anyone have any idea of how a list like this realistically fares?

fubukii
13-09-2005, 21:26
id suggest droppin the wraith they dont really do much 2 str5 ws3 attacks ehhhh. Id rather have a Wight, or another necro

Alco Engineer
13-09-2005, 23:07
id suggest droppin the wraith they dont really do much 2 str ws3 attacks ehhhh. Id rather have a Wight, or another necro
Dude a wraith comes with a great weapon so I say keep him in there. plus it matches the character of the army.
Edit: I see you missed th 5....I still say its handy and it's all you have that causes terror. It'd make a mess of skaven or gobbos

Did you tool up the skellies. either give them Light armour or spears.

I also like the twin linked banshee tactic. I just hope you don't fight slaneesh very often or they'll be wasted. I like the grave guard too. very strong base unit to anchor the rest of your army. looks good. have fun with it

samw
14-09-2005, 00:10
I see this as a pretty tidy list that will wreak havoc in the magic phase (14 power dice a turn!)


Sorry am I missing something? 14?

2 basic + 2 from each necro + four from necro lord=10.

Even with the periapt nabbing one that's only(!) 11.

Why'd ya think 14?

fubukii
14-09-2005, 01:27
you can get 14p dice with undead

2 base 3lvl 2 lvl 4 = 12, + power fam = 1 +12 then periapt = 14.
thats how necromancer armies are meant to be ran :)

Nineswords
14-09-2005, 12:31
you can get 14p dice with undead

2 base 3lvl 2 lvl 4 = 12, + power fam = 1 +12 then periapt = 14.
thats how necromancer armies are meant to be ran :)

Yup. But I dont have a power familiar, but saying that, 13 will do....

Im pretty happy with the list now, so thanks for all the comments!

DrkAp0stle
15-09-2005, 19:33
Drop the wraith and one of the banshees throw in a wight lord with sword of kings. Throw him in the unit of grave guard.


-Ap0stle

Nineswords
15-09-2005, 22:35
I reckon ill start tinkering with the list once I get the minis. Im tempted either with a Wight lord with SOK and a Blood Gem and with the Banner of Barrows too it makes him a formidable challenge accepter.

Either that or a thrall....

Cheers!

Alco Engineer
15-09-2005, 23:23
I like thralls better....

Muffinius
16-09-2005, 12:56
Hmm 1 thing i can suggest

Screamign banner instead of banner of the barrows it makes fear checks so much harder and who needs to hit on 3's if the enemy is hitting on 6's

Nineswords
18-09-2005, 16:05
Interesting.....

Lord Anathir
18-09-2005, 20:11
um....what does that combination do on the lvl 4? Also, i suggest giving ur grave guard hand weapons...3+ AS is pretty good.

Nineswords
18-09-2005, 21:47
Yeah someone else pointed that out complete with conversion pictures - if your opponent is hitting on 6's then thats gonna hurt.

The combination I refer to is the cloak makes the character ethereal, whilst obsidian amulet gives a 4+ ward save against any kind of magic attack!

Nineswords
19-09-2005, 15:45
***REVISED LIST MKII***

The Shadow Lord of Loren
Master Necromancer 185
+ Lvl 4 Magic 35
Cloak Of Mists & Shadows 45
Obsidian Amulet 45
TOTAL 300 points

Wight Lord 60
Sword Of The Kings 25
Gem Of Blood 25
Heavy Armour 4
Shield 2
116 points

Necromancer 65
+ Lvl 2 Magic 35
+ 25 Dispel Scroll
+ 15 Black Periapt
140 points

Necromancer 65
+ Lvl 2 Magic 35
+ 25 Black Book Of Arkhan
125 points

CORE
15 Skeletons 120
Light Armour 30
Full Command 25
175 points

15 Skeletons 120
Light Armour 30
Full Command 25
175 points

15 Skeletons 120
Light Armour 30
Full Command 25
175 points

5 Dire Wolves 50 points

SPECIAL
18 Grave Guard
Shield 234
Screaming Banner 40
Full Command 30
304 points

Sprit Host X 4 260 points

RARE
2 Banshees 180 points

TOTAL 2000 points

This list pretty much incorporates most of the suggestions by many undead players. Im sticking the Wight Lord and Master Necromancer in the Grave Guard unit, WL takes challenges....

Tormentor of Slaanesh
19-09-2005, 20:59
would it be better to keep the lord out of the unit, ie: behind it? even a 4+ ward isn't going to always work.
i like lots of spirit hosts, everyone hates them.

Lord Anathir
20-09-2005, 02:57
good god....what a b***h of a mage to kill. It would be best leftinside a large unit, so that the only way u can kill it is if you wipe out the unit first. On its own, it can be killed through combat res.

Alco Engineer
20-09-2005, 03:39
good god....what a b***h of a mage to kill. It would be best leftinside a large unit, so that the only way u can kill it is if you wipe out the unit first. On its own, it can be killed through combat res.
But you have to get him on his own to do that. And a lvl4 necromancer can always put some zombies in the way as a speed bump and then get out of there. I generally use my necro outside a unit (except against Warp Lightning cannons and other non friendly artillery) and they can generally outmanouvre most units (except skirmisher I suppose) And he'll get smashed in hth if it comes to that.

backslide
21-09-2005, 05:38
looks pretty good to me, lacking badly in the speed department thus would not be hard to flank.

Alco Engineer
21-09-2005, 06:47
But with new units of zombies to get in the way of flanking units it would be hard to outflank IMO. Some of the faster armies might be able to but it also has a lot of staying power and the graveguard would act as an excellent anchor on which to mount the attack. the Dire wolves I would expect could go hunting faster flanking units. I agree that it does look quite stable for a necromancers list and the wightlord should be able to make up some of the fighting prowess lost by not having a vampire. Plus enemy characters will definately think twice before charging the wight lord.

Nineswords
21-09-2005, 11:20
Yeah my big problem is simply being outflanked - I can try and compensate by doing a sweeping attack through one side if terrain allows it, but I basically just need to keep raising zombies and skeletons to cover my 'anchor' points. The Grave Guard unit I see as rock solid, and im hoping the fear factor will come full force when playing armies with low leadership.

Thanks for all your imput so far, its taken a lot of tweaking but Im getting there!

Tormentor of Slaanesh
21-09-2005, 18:14
if you raise lots of units then the extra victory points could mount up.
yes, you need more anti-flankers/flankers.

adsVampire
21-09-2005, 18:34
You are starting to stray from your original theme (ghost heavy). I'd keep the wraith and give him the cursed book or talon of death. The book helps to keep your nearby troops alive and the talon is very helpful for wittling down tough enemy troops (i.e. slayers).

Next, I'd replace the periapt with the spell familiar. This will give another caster besides your general more casting options and a greater chance for Danse. I've found that with VC you really do not want your general casting most of the spells. Have the necros cast the majority of the spells and only use the MN if you have to.

OK, with 10 power dice you do not need light armor on the skellies. If you ditch the armor (and lower them from a 4+ HtH save to a 5+) you will free up 90 points. Also, drop all of the champions from the skelly units. Your necros should never be in combat so there is no real need for the champs. That'll free up another 30 pts.

If you take grave guard the best option I've found is 25 with full command, shields, and warbanner. Give them halberds if you like. A unit this size with its resiliency tends to auto-break the vast majority of opponents. Also, they are extremely difficult to destroy or even reduce to half strength. This unit can also function independently of supporting magic and characters.

Last, IMHO the Obsidian Amulet is a complete waste. Your guy is already ethereal and you have a strong magical defense. The amulet might help vs magical HtH attacks ... but if is in HtH combat then likely he'll die anyway. I'd drop it for the staff of damnation. Your MN has to stay near the center of your army which makes him the perfect recipient for the staff. The staff will also greatly enhance your GG and skellies.

Nineswords
21-09-2005, 19:34
Thank you for your comments - I originally envisaged the graveguard surrounding my master necromancer - the wight lord is there to take challenges and the obsidian amulet is there as a failsafe.

The reason why ive tooled up the skeletons is simply because they are not great warriors, and will win on combat bonuses - im banking on fear being a player in my decision to arm them well.

Id like to use a wraith, but I feel at the moment the Wight Lord is the better decision - ill have to play test both and make adjustments accordingly. Theme wise, I dont think ive strayed at all - Basically, the Shadowlord is a corrupted spell singer (as are the banshees) and the necromancers have made the mistake of awakening him - the graveguard and skeletons are Bretonnians who have crossed the wood elves and lost.

Kind of like the Barrow King/Army of the Dead theme going on there. I love the spell singer models and I want to ghost em up.

Apart from that, ill have to play test the black periapt - ive not used it before but I can see the benefits, and I feel that having 8 spells to play with is pretty good. Ill look into the staff of damnation that sounds like a good option. Thanks for your comments and I look forward to further observations you may have.

adsVampire
22-09-2005, 16:14
Thank you for your comments - I originally envisaged the graveguard surrounding my master necromancer - the wight lord is there to take challenges and the obsidian amulet is there as a failsafe.

That'll put nearly half of your points into a single unit (and remove an expensive halberd weilding GG from combat). I would not recommend putting your MN with the GG.


The reason why ive tooled up the skeletons is simply because they are not great warriors, and will win on combat bonuses - im banking on fear being a player in my decision to arm them well.

Hellish vigour and the cursed book can go just as far if not further. Combine all 3 and you make for pretty resilient skellies. However, this is for units that are unlikely to get summoned flanking support. With 10 dice of magic you will have a pretty good chance of doing the summon and flank tactic. Summon and flank usually works regardless of how well armed or armored your units are. So, with the armor and extra upgrades your unit can stand a lone slightly longer without magical support ... but it costs more meaning you will have less elsewhere. Its a trade-off. Do what fits your play style.


Id like to use a wraith, but I feel at the moment the Wight Lord is the better decision - ill have to play test both and make adjustments accordingly. Theme wise, I dont think ive strayed at all - Basically, the Shadowlord is a corrupted spell singer (as are the banshees) and the necromancers have made the mistake of awakening him - the graveguard and skeletons are Bretonnians who have crossed the wood elves and lost.

Bret skeletons should have light armor, shield, and spear (standard M@A models) OR Light armor and shield (Grail Reliquae models). Actually, the grail reliquae could look pretty neat if modelled up all dead and such.

Bret Grave Guard ... I guess regular M@A with halberds. Sounds good to me except they do not have heavy armor.

The wight lord is a dead paladin with the virtue of empathy? That'll work I guess.

Apart from that, ill have to play test the black periapt - ive not used it before but I can see the benefits, and I feel that having 8 spells to play with is pretty good. Ill look into the staff of damnation that sounds like a good option. Thanks for your comments and I look forward to further observations you may have.

The periapt will likely be useful since you have 10 casting dice (often spells will be cast with 3 dice each ... leaving one in the end) and 6 dispel dice. Pretty good chance someone will have a spare dice to save.