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Norminator
21-11-2007, 21:00
England have just lost 2-3 to Croatia, in a match which quite honestly we deserved to lose by a significant degree more.

What are everyone's thought on England's performance? Personally I think that had we qualified it wouldn't have been just; Russia are a far better team who have earnt their place more than our lacklustre performances would have.

floyd pinkerton
21-11-2007, 21:07
They play with all the competence of a dead animal:D

Grr, I'm very annoyed

Col.Gravis
21-11-2007, 21:07
In the long run it's probably gonna be a good thing, a wakeup call. The team, the whole backroom staff need a shake up, and until that happens nothing is deserved IMHO and we can expect nothing either.

I gave up watching England play a while ago, at least my local Conferrance side put in more good games then bad.

sgtspiff
21-11-2007, 21:07
Hehe what can I say as a Swede... Maybe I'll would blame the manager.
I wasn't really that suprised as out all the big nations in the world I've always thought (at least the last 4 big championships) that England (with Holland) has been worst.

Yahuboo
21-11-2007, 21:15
To be honest england were top seeds in that group and shouldnt have struggled in the first place. Not meaning to nit pick but i mean just look at scotland for example, we went out and did what we had to do and even though we lost out in the end i am proud of what we have achieved whereas most fans expect england to qualify for everything.

Even your fans didnt get behind the team, for most of the 1st half i heard the croatian fans moreoften than not, plus whats with booing your team off at half time anyways no support at all.
Plus russia did deserve to get through with some of the quality of players they have i'm looking forward to seeing them play next summer.
P.s. sorry if it sounded like a rant

Hun
21-11-2007, 21:25
It's not that we lose (at least for me) but the fact that the England team play so poorly. I don't care about results I want to see decent shots on goal.

SonofUltramar
21-11-2007, 21:28
Having watched probably one of the worst England home games ever i have to say that the players seemed to lack any sort of pride or conviction? Croatia really did deserve to win and if Mclaren doesn't quit he'll soon be shown the door?

As a Scotsman with many English friends I do feel rather disappointed that neither of us (or the Welsh or Irish for that matter) didn't make it through. As Yahuboo said though i'm proud of our team and manager for what we acheived in a group we were never given a chance in, can any England fan say that about their team and manager, sadly not and i think its time the FA had a real shake up at all levels as England should at least qualify for the European Championships and World Cup especially from a group like the one they had?

Bad luck guys but i think it was a fair result

TheLionReturns
21-11-2007, 21:28
Very disappointing. Thought crouch, cole and wright phillips were ok but the rest weren't good enough. Lampard and Gerrard were average but you expect better from players of their stature in big games, and I thought barry spent too much time getting forward. He is a passer not a defensive midfield screen. The defense was terrible. Micah Richards has a lot of convincing to do defensively, and it was the worst I have ever seen bridge play.

The most damning thing for me was carson. He made a honest mistake that most keepers have made at one point or another. I didn't see a single england player give him a pat on his back to try and lift his spirits. I hope it doesn't do long term damage.

There is just no character in the team. They panic when under pressure and lose their heads when faced by an injustice. They need to trust their techniques, play with a bit of swagger that being players of their stature should give them and support eachother. Then we may deserve to grace a major tournament.

The Highlander
21-11-2007, 21:31
Yay now I don't have to put up with everyone going on about them for ages. And we only just lost against the world champions.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-11-2007, 21:32
Ahhh...what a great night for Scottish Football! Nothing like seeing England knocked out, at Wembley.

Almost makes up for the horrific arrogance on *British* telly in the lead up....

Plus, when you see poor Scotland drawn against not just the World Cup holders, but the ******* runners up, and England get several teams of Quadraspazzed Monkeys on life support, it's nice to see them struggle to qualify....

Time to kick the regular faces out the team. I'm looking at you Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, and Beckham. Perhaps if they no longer saw their inclusion as a foregone thing, they might actually try to justify it.....And I can guarantee theres a lot of players tragically over looked for the media pleasing whores, who would battle like crazy to retain their new place.....

Hun
21-11-2007, 21:34
I think the biggest weakness was our midfield. Gerrard and Lampard never got in the postion to have a shot from outside the box (there supposed forte) and they sat so deep that Crouch was playing on the halfway line. Even then they didn't do a good enough job closing down the croatian players outside the box who had so much time to prepare their shots.

Fenriz
21-11-2007, 21:45
We lost? Huzzah! :D

*Jumps up and down for joy*

Means i wont have all my friends watching football instead of coming to the pub (i chose my local for the specific reason it doesnt ever show football. EVER.).

Also means less ardent coverage of matches as none of the home nations qualified, so less football destroying all the good programming on TV. :D

Good times! :D

Ghod
21-11-2007, 21:45
Most of the time were rubbish but dont realise it...

Tonight we were just rubbish.

In a way I'm glad, it needed something like this to shake things up...the team might start to realise that we don't get a golden ticket into every competition...the media might start to realise that were not as good as they try to make out and Mclaren might sod off...

It's a huge disapointment all round...

Kahadras
21-11-2007, 21:52
the media might start to realise that were not as good as they try to make out and Mclaren might sod off...


Personaly I don't think the problem is just the media and the manager. The whole national game has been flawed for years but the FA just paper over the cracks and keep going without dealing with the root causes which is Club football first, national football a distant second. Untill this is addressed nothing will change.

Kahadras

theunwantedbeing
21-11-2007, 22:04
So we lost eh?
I bet deep down we all knew this was going to happen.
England isnt supposed to win, its not in our nature....we just turn up get drunk and then go home with a hangover and thats how it will always be.

The less we see of england playing the better really.
Well untill we start playing well....ie. offenisively and attacking and attacking untill the other team eventually falters.

Aurellis
21-11-2007, 22:35
I can't believe how awful Barry, Bridge and Carson played... I'm extremely dissapointed especially considering how good a season Barry and Carson have had so far.

Saying that I cant fault how Croatia played and they deserved to beat us after having a pretty much consistant 90 minutes.

I'm looking forward to reading the tabloids tomorrow ;)

Cade
21-11-2007, 22:37
So that was the GOLDEN GENERATION, eh?

I'd love to see a crap generation of England players!

Kohhna
21-11-2007, 22:40
And Norn'Iron went out to ignominious defeat tonight as well. I'm still not sure which one is funnier.

untimention
21-11-2007, 22:42
The players all need a kick up the **** if you ask me.

Yes oh they are so great at the premiership teams but as a group they just seem lost and dont understand what to do.

Make them train together.

GARY NEVILLE FOR BOSS

Everett
21-11-2007, 22:43
Sack McClaren and hire Mourinho. Have a shake up within the squad, Win the World Cup. Job done.

This is the best thing that ever happened to the idiots who call themselves english football players. Perhaps now Gerrard actually has something to justify having that miserable look that seems to be set in stone on his face these days.

Actually, it's a blessing in disguise, especially if Mourinho is hired as the next England coach. Whether that happens or not, McClaren won't be in charge much longer IMO. Shame really, but I just don't think he's cut out for international football.

I think we made the same mistake as with Sven. Both of them are successful CLUB managers. It's a whole different sport on the international level.

my tuppence anyway

Mad Doc Grotsnik
21-11-2007, 22:47
I'd quite like to Stuart Pearce as Manager.

Sure, he might lack the experience you'd expect, but not only does he have the passion for the job, but having played with much of the team himself, he has a certain edge.

Never employ a foreigner to be your National Manager. They just don't care enough. A big fat, qualification bonus is one thing, being hailed as a hero by your countrymen is quite another....and I know which most would prefer.

Everett
21-11-2007, 22:52
Nobody tries harder than mourinho though; did you hear about that match against chesterfield or whoever it was. The guy does his homework. Plus, what else is he doing these days?

Cade
21-11-2007, 23:08
There is no way in hell The Special One will take the England job.

Unless you win a trophy as manager of England, you're hated and reviled for the reast of time.

He is not stupid enough tio take the job, much in the same way that Scolari turned it down too.

WLBjork
21-11-2007, 23:58
Come on, this is the English FA we're talking about here.

They had Brian Clough in for an interview and turned him down for England Manager.

I think the only times we've stood a chance of being the best in the world were 1966 (when we did win) and possibly 1982 (where a certain dubious goal denied us).

neXus6
22-11-2007, 05:54
There is no way in hell The Special One will take the England job.

Aye couldn't see him touching that job with someone elses. :p

forgotten hero
22-11-2007, 06:45
hmm, i wanted to post something last night, but i was too disappointed/angry to post my true feelings.

now that i've calmed down somewhat,

i think McClown needs to go some time today, im watching the news now and it 's basically writing on the wall for him now.

i think we should get a good motivator style manager, Stewart Pearce i dont think is the man for the job, i he has no where near enough experience and Mouriniho is not going to come either. but the FA need to look long and hard to get the right man for the job.

i would place Martin O'Neil as favorite now.

as for the game last night... we where all over Croatia with possession, but they had the better chances and deserved to win imo, we got lucky once or twice, shot straight at Carsen (a decent save to turn it over though) and Bridge hitting our own bar.

i dont want to blame individual players, because thats not fair, because they are all good enough individuals for there respective clubs, but what i will say is, Lampard needs to start playing his heart out or f-off! Carsen needs to learn to distribute better, i think Foster in the future not him!

ending on the high note, i think Crouch is quality, its now a choice of who will play with him, Owen of Rooney? or even Heskey, how scary would our front line be with them too, Crouch a giant and Heskey as strong as you get lol!

cheers, come on erm..... Spain?

-Rob

RevEv
22-11-2007, 07:45
What a fantastic result!

Now I won't have to suffer endless football next summer when I'm away overseas with limited channels.

On a serious note - what is happening to English football? You are relying on far too many older players and seem to lack strength in depth, which means that when the experienced players are unavailable (or dropped, as in this game), there are no youngsters available to fill the gaps. It also seems ridiculous to drop the player your top goal scorer (Crouch) wanted to ensure passes for him to make goal atempts (Beckham).

England Rugby seem to have it right - two World Cup finals in two consecutive tournaments (winning one - and scraping through to the other by playing out of their skin at the right time).

Now, if only the Welsh Rugby could do the same I'd be a very happy man:)

ArtificerArmour
22-11-2007, 08:43
I thought putting an untried 22 year old goalkeeper in the team in the biggest game of the year instead of David James was a great tactic...

firestorm40k
22-11-2007, 08:45
I gave up watching England play a while ago, at least my local Conferrance side put in more good games then bad.

It's funny you should say that, Col.Gravis, as I think England would have better results if you chose a bunch of non-league players instead of these over-payed, un-motivated prima-donnas that make up the bulk of the team.

It's like at last year's World Cup. The fans are desperate for england to win the World Cup.

The players, though, don't care either way. They go home to a flipping great mansion with a £150,000 bonus, £millions in the bank from sponsorship, advertising, and Premiership wages, an ex-model/popstar wife, and lots of big expensive cars.

Why should you be bothered about winning the World Cup when you have that? :rolleyes::eyebrows: At least a team of players from the conference would be *desperate* to win, and that's half the battle; most of the current players just don't really seem to care. And that's before you get started on the 'yes man' of a manager.

Personally, I think that everytime England lose a match, all of their wages from it should be taken from them and given to charity or to develop more and better football players in the UK. Either that, or their wives & children are kidnapped before each game and only released if they win. But that would be a little bit problematic and controversial, I guess... :angel::p

(please note, that last bit was not entirely serious, thank you moderators)

Bombot
22-11-2007, 08:54
Good to see someone didn't lose their sense of humour last night. Frank Lampard was made England's man of the match!

Aelyn
22-11-2007, 09:23
To my mind, Crouch and Wright-Philips were solid, Carson was not nearly as poor as people have said (there's absolutely no blame on him for the second goal whatsoever, it was the six whiteshirts letting two blueshirts through that did it) and some of McClaren's choices were clearly subpar - Robinson should have been on the bench, I don't think Lampard and Gerrard should have both started, and frankly there was too little experience at the back - and only needing a draw, we should have played a more defensive game with pace, rather than power, determining the front end. Yes Crouch should have been around, but he didn't have the pace to support him except from perhaps Wright-Philips.

Bombot
22-11-2007, 09:28
I haven't forgotten about Jamie Carragher throwing a paddy and running away from the international team. We could have done with his deserting backside last night.

forgotten hero
22-11-2007, 09:34
i was talking to someone last night and the question came up...

when was the last time England won a crunch game against decent opposition? not a must win game against someone like Andora or who ever

-Rob

Venomizer
22-11-2007, 09:40
The time has now come for some open surgery

firstly, the FA needs re-built from top to bottom, the so called board who selects the manager knows as much about football as a demented golden retriever

Venomizers Solution: involve ex-players in the running of the FA, Trevor Brooking bangs his head against a titanium wall because he knows what the problem is - that my friends is coaching at grassroots level

for too long, English kids have been told to pass the ball on as soon as they get it instead of learning how to hold the ball, pick out a pass and then release it, the other main problem is now academies & coaches have become obsessed with athletes - the biggest & strongest they can get at the youngest age possible and are discarding those who may be a little slight but have skill & technique - instead we should be encouraging those with technique and flair to shine through, yes pace & power has it's merits but technique is a major attribute in professional football yet for years we have seemed determined to drive it to extinction

Venomizers Solution: get the best coaches we can get, working with the kids: 7,8,9,10 year olds will benefit much, much more with these coaches then the under 19s, under 21s etc, who would head up this operation? - simple, the man who has developed more players than any other manager I can name in recent memory: Dario Grady

finally, the management selection - the current selection panel is too big & as I've said previously knows next to nothing about football - they are all media luvvies & businessmen, now surely if you are appointing a football manager such a panel would at least include, if not be made up entirely of, football people

Venomizers Solution: an 8 man panel made up of ex-players as well as current & former managers - people who won't appoint a man who says 'yes' to every proposition put in front of him, people who know what such a job would take and can identify people with the skills & talents needed for the role - not somebody who courts the media because he's so utter clueless

.......I feel better for getting that off my chest now

ArtificerArmour
22-11-2007, 09:42
I haven't forgotten about Jamie Carragher throwing a paddy and running away from the international team. We could have done with his deserting backside last night.

Yeah, shame he wasn't being picked when he was playing well before he quit the national team. He quit because he wasn't being picked to begin with. I totally agree with Carraghers decision to leave, he was being unfairly left out. McLaren was an utter *****, I don't think he's made one decent choice (except bringing Beckham back, which was his fault to begin with anyway!)

Oh, and he's gone:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7100393.stm

SonofUltramar
22-11-2007, 09:43
Well Mclaren is gone and there is to be a shake up of everything to do with the national side, about time IMO

As much as people do knock him I think if Hesky is fit he should always be an option as he actually plays with heart and his strength and power seem to be options England never have in abundance? Get him up front with Owen in a tried and tested partnership which i do recall working well recently?

The big question now is will the new manger be English or not?

hairyman
22-11-2007, 09:57
What a disgrace.

I don't agree that the players lack passion... they were clearly gutted, and most of them ran themselves into the ground. What they lacked was organisation, technique and intelligence. One, maybe two of those shortcomings could've been filled by a decent coach.

They should get rid of the ****** who run the FA, resurrect the idea of a Centre of Excellence, appoint a proficient manager who has a successful CV (Lippi, Capello and Jose are all free at the moment) and give them the freedom and backing to do their job properly. Anyone suggesting Stuart Pearce for the job (or Alan Shearer, or Big Sam, or Mark Hughes, or Barry Fry...) would do well to remember that we need a manager with a proven track record of winning things, not someone who's only credentials are his English passport and his ability to jump around a lot and look passionate.

hairyman
22-11-2007, 10:05
for too long, English kids have been told to pass the ball on as soon as they get it instead of learning how to hold the ball, pick out a pass and then release it...

That's not strictly true. I was trained by FA coaches when I was a kid, one of whom was also a lower league manager, and there was an overwhelming emphasis on technical skills. The majority of what we did was practice short passing, turns, shielding the ball and retaining possession.

Personally, I think the "natural english game TM" has a lot going for it, when well executed. There is no reason technical proficiency cannot be combined with high tempo football. It does not mean you have to run around like a lunatic, leaving gaping holes in your team's shape and punting the ball upfield whenever you get it. Look at Man Utd under Fergie... they play fast and direct football while doing it with panache and flair. Look at Spurs in the 60's, Liverpool in the 70's. You can play a short pass and move game, mixed in with defence splitting passes, at an Enlgish tempo and be successful.

The problem comes when you have no organisation, no shape, no discipline and players have no idea of what they're supposed to be doing. This is the fault of the manager, who (in McLaren's case) was appointed to a position that was way over his head by the fat greedy ****** at the FA whose opinion is formed by parochial stupidity and a terror of the tabloid press.

edit: apologies for the double post...

DeathlessDraich
22-11-2007, 10:20
1) Croatia is a good side, in fact better than England with a refreshing attacking style. They deserved to win the group.

2) The football commentators - Alan Shearer especially may have been good footballers but considering the comments they made, I'm glad they are not managing any teams.
England players did not play badly, they were outplayed.
Croatia did not rely on the long ball, they played the ball through midfield, a route which required good passing, skill and awareness. When their midfielders got the ball, they looked comfortable and had superb skills and vision.
Sometimes even the Croatian defenders looked good.
Well done Croatia. In case you're wondering I'm not Croatian but a true football fan - I enjoy the game and will always praise a team that plays good football.

3) Steve McLaren should stay. He knows his football and so does Terry Venables. Mc Claren ideas have been adopted by many teams all over Europe including the way he assesses player performance.
The fault is not his but the players, who sometimes are too egotistical and the clubs who sometimes 'concoct' injuries for their key players.
Watch the next England game carefully and you'll notice a) petty rivalries between players - they don't pass to a rival player in a good position, ignore players or pass to him when it would be difficult. Beckham was the victim in the last world cup. Gerard - in one or 2 games last year. b) they refuse to play for each other - poor off the ball running or not willing to chase back or take on a player who would show them up.

scarletsquig
22-11-2007, 10:21
Wouldn't be surprised if McClaren just wanted an early retirement, and deliberately didn't put much effort into things.

I mean, with this kind of incentive:


McClaren, 46, who had a four-year deal, is expected to be paid more than £2m in compensation

... wouldn't you? ;)

The pestilent 1
22-11-2007, 10:24
Nobody tries harder than mourinho though; did you hear about that match against chesterfield or whoever it was. The guy does his homework. Plus, what else is he doing these days?

I hope they won, Chesterfield suck.

neXus6
22-11-2007, 10:24
Yes England were outplayed, but the thing is it was poor results against teams they should have easily beaten that resulted in them having to take something from the game. The team should, and probably will, take far more criticism for that.

I do agree that McLaren isn't so bad, I mean if anything the team was improving under him and kicking him out will only cause more problems. And that statement is coming from a Scotsman. :)

Bombot
22-11-2007, 10:44
I totally agree with Carraghers decision to leave, he was being unfairly left out.

Rubbish. Terry and Ferdinand are better and Carragher couldn't take it, the cry baby.

TheLionReturns
22-11-2007, 11:05
I think its wrong to suggest the England players dont try or care. If anything at times I think they care too much, or are at least too mentally fragile for their passion. The more pressure they are under the more they go to pieces. The fans and press dont help with the pressure we pile on them, but coping with that is part of professional sport. Sadly anyone involved in football seems incapable of realising this.

One incident summed up Englands problems for me last night. I saw no support for carson after the mistake, just scowls. The team spirit in the England squad seems non existent. The rugby and cricket teams have it, and it is an English trait. It just seems the footballers have lost it somewhere along the line. The England team should be sticking together, the pressure should be bringing them closer together.

Instead there is too much passing the buck and blaming others in football culture. When is the last time you saw a manager stand up and say, fair play we were awful. Its always the refs fault or bad luck. English players need their heads sorting. They have the technique and the physical qualities. They lack the confidence to implement them and the mental discipline to avoid distractions and retain their tactical shape.

Everett
22-11-2007, 11:15
..Instead there is too much passing the buck and blaming others in football culture..

Football culture has ultimately been ruined by agents. Wages/prices these days inflate footballers ego's, and unfortunately it shows for the bigger names in the England squad (apart from Owen - absolute legend)

RevEv
22-11-2007, 13:15
The players, though, don't care either way. They go home to a flipping great mansion with a £150,000 bonus, £millions in the bank from sponsorship, advertising, and Premiership wages, an ex-model/popstar wife, and lots of big expensive cars.


Agreed Firestorm - just look at the England Ladies team who got through to the quarter finals (or was it semis). They are now struggling to make ends meet.

If they were paid the reported bonuses the mens team received for NOT getting through to the European Tournament I don't think they would complain.

TheBigBadWolf
22-11-2007, 14:30
I think england deserved to lose, they were outplayed by the croatians. The problem with the england national team is the clubs, there is too many foriginers in your league at the detriment of home grown players, you used to laugh at the scottish league and its large contingent of foreigners but thats all gone know and the national team are on the up, we finished in 3rd behind the 2 best teams in the world at the moment. There was a satisitc in the paper the other day that stated that there was something like 300 players in the starting lineup of the games a few weeks ago for the Premier League and only 77 were english, that is a shocking stat, it wasnt that long ago that arsnenal fielded an all foriegn team sheet all 11 players and subs. There is the problem right there.

RavenMorpheus
22-11-2007, 20:53
England have just lost 2-3 to Croatia, in a match which quite honestly we deserved to lose by a significant degree more.

What are everyone's thought on England's performance? Personally I think that had we qualified it wouldn't have been just; Russia are a far better team who have earnt their place more than our lacklustre performances would have.

Well I'm just p****d off that we keep teaching the rest of the world to play and we end up getting beaten because of it.

Not to mention that if we didn't have so many foreign players in our leagues our "home grown" talent might actually be better for it and therefore the national squad would benefit...

...but then if they're paid to play for their teams and not paid as much to play for their country, if they're paid at all, I doubt it'd make a difference as the players (not the manager - even though he's the one who's got the boot, despite it being the players who put in the bad performances) seem to be unable to turn in a good performance for anyone unless it's for their respective league teams. :mad:

Cade
22-11-2007, 22:28
All this talk of Johnny Foreigner ruining the national team is utter drivel.

If grass roots level football was as good over here as it is in Spain, France or Holland, we wouldn't have to fill our teams with players from all over the place.

There would be no point in bringing in foreign players if our youngsters were better and that will only happen with proper investment into youth development schemes across the nation.

Angelwing
23-11-2007, 00:43
..... and possibly 1982 (where a certain dubious goal denied us).

Do you mean 1986?

My thoughts: Scott Carson in goal was a mistake. This was a crunch game that required the most experienced players. I thought it was very unfair throwing him in at the deep end with that much pressure. i hope it doesn't ruin his future chances.
The England team have many of the best players in the world. They can't play as a team though. They don't train together enough and rely on a few star men to win the day. A typical example involves passing the ball to Rooney and let him work some magic. If Rooney goes off, there is no plan B. The ball is passed about (mostly backwards) without any conviction.
Its very frustrating and a pity England didn't qualify. However, this time round we simply didn't deserve to. :(
Adding to the misery is that neither Scotland, Wales, N Ireland or Rep Ireland qualified either, which will make for a real lack of interest in next years tournament.

Big_Bear_Scot
23-11-2007, 09:52
I don't believe the hype about English players, I would only say that you may have only one World class player in Gerrard. The Croatia game also shows the lack of talent outside the top 11 for England, as soon as Owen and Terry got injured you had to replace them with less capable players such Lescott and Bent.

If you look at Croatia they where technically miles ahead of any of the England players, they passed the ball about, made linking runs from midfield and their defenders looked comfortable on the ball. Where as England struggled to pass the ball to each other, even Gerrard couldn't string two passes together.

England's problems are much deeper than a bad manager.

skott4991
23-11-2007, 10:02
So that was the GOLDEN GENERATION, eh?

I'd love to see a crap generation of England players!

That was the 1966 team :p

Stella Cadente
23-11-2007, 12:42
its fun when England lose things, it just reinforces how useless this nation is at sport

forgotten hero
24-11-2007, 07:33
this has shown how over hyped our players are, and shows what a bubble we live in.

my cousin has been saying for a while now that we arnt better than teams like Croatia and Russia i was a little a taken back at the time and thought he was being stupid. but now i can see perfectly, we arnt better, we are worse!

all our players are over hyped and we think we are world beaters... when we are in fact, pretty average, this shows one interesting thing, what a good job Sven did...

but with another decent coach i expect us to qualify for WC 2010 in SA.

*Crosses fingers*

(the draw for the group is tomorrow)

-Rob

RavenMorpheus
24-11-2007, 19:12
its fun when England lose things, it just reinforces how useless this nation is at sport


Nope it just highlights how "England expects" because we're too dumb/led by the media to see that we're not "all that" when it comes to sports because we don't invest in it and we send all our people out to the rest of the world to train/educate them rather than training/educating ourselves.

Big_Bear_Scot
25-11-2007, 09:06
Nope it just highlights how "England expects" because we're too dumb/led by the media to see that we're not "all that" when it comes to sports because we don't invest in it and we send all our people out to the rest of the world to train/educate them rather than training/educating ourselves.

I can't think of any English football coaches who ply their trade outside of England. Look at the English Premier league the most successful coaches/managers are not English. An English manager has never won the League title.

This says to me that even the English coaches are sub par.

DeathlessDraich
25-11-2007, 10:32
Not all of them surely.
Brian Clough won the League with Forest and there's Dave Sexton, Howard Kendall, Matt Busby, Ron Saunders etc etc

and more recently

Bobby Robson trained and transferred his management skills to Jose Mourinho who he had previously coached an amateur team.

Big_Bear_Scot
25-11-2007, 10:59
Not all of them surely.
Brian Clough won the League with Forest and there's Dave Sexton, Howard Kendall, Matt Busby, Ron Saunders etc etc.

I was talking about the Premier league which has been existence since 92-93, not the old First Division. Since then only 4 clubs have won the league and they have been managed by a foreigner.

Man Utd - Alex Ferguson(Scottish)
Arsenal - Arsene Wenger(French)
Blackburn - Kenny Dalglish(Scottish)
Chelsea - Jose Mourinho (Portuguese)


Bobby Robson trained and transferred his management skills to Jose Mourinho who he had previously coached an amateur team.

How long ago was that though?