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JimmyP0567
22-11-2007, 22:44
Hey, I was thinking about my list today, and after thinking about the loadout that my Veteran squads have, I got an idea. What if Games Worshop were to make a plastic set for veterans? Any ideas on how it could be implemented, or would you not even want something like that?

I thought it would be kind of cool, they could make some extra plastic bits to replace standard Imperial Guard bits without having to make a drastically new mould for them, but at the same time, I thought about how fun it was to build them from scratch.

Seth the Dark
22-11-2007, 22:47
I think they should do an upgrade box like they did for the Black Templars.

Torga_DW
22-11-2007, 22:49
Just a question, which army line would they produce the veterans for? Catachans, or cadians? Since the two lines have different sized/proportioned models that would make a single kit wrong for one of them.

Maidel
22-11-2007, 22:50
I really dont see the point - the plastic kits give you all sorts of bits to make them look grizzeled - if you dont like that, pick another unit (eg elisum drop troopers) and paint them in the same scheme - makes them look like vets.

Its the same reason why I dont see the point in making a separate box for marine veterans - sure there are plenty of individiual vet models and command squads - but giving you a tactical squad modeled as first company marines would actually make them look LESS like veterans because everyones army would look exactly the same then.

Dio´Ra
22-11-2007, 22:50
i think they should give to the guardsman box an extra sprue to upgrade some of them to veterans.....just like the chaos space marines have/had their mutation sprue....it doesnt have to be drastic, just look at the FW kit.

Voleron
22-11-2007, 22:54
Eh, I wouldn't mind if they made an upgrade sprue, but I wouldn't use it. I prefer veterans to be unique - a standardized upgrade sprue somewhat kills that individuality.

Bitz is the only upgrade kit you'll ever need.

Cry of the Wind
22-11-2007, 22:55
They'd do it for Cadians of course...at least they'd be the first to get it since they are the flagship regiment of the IG line (much like how they got heavy weapons in plastic first and then Catachan came after).

I feel kind of mixed on the idea really. I'd love to see what they came up with and would be happy to see official models for every unit in the codex, but at the same time still like the idea of being forced to convert the unit if you really want it to be special. Marine veterans have proven to be interesting models but overall don't seem to have the character that a converted unit has. They look more like tricked out marines rather than combat veterans, something that would really look off in case of IG vets. That said looking at the FW Cadian Hardened Veterans shows that you can make a really cool looking unit stock (well kind of, FW stuff is almost like having a conversion, only one commissioned by an expert sculpter...).

I like the idea of an upgrade box...all you really need are new heads and weapon options with maybe the odd set of battle damaged armour or trophy items.

Major King
22-11-2007, 22:56
I think like Dio'Ra. An upgrade sprue would be cool, something like bandaged arms, a wider variety of special weapons (which would be a good improvement in general). Perhaps even unique items like Lho sticks, lucky charms, purity seals, even trophies would be very cool to have.

JimmyP0567
22-11-2007, 23:09
I really dont see the point - the plastic kits give you all sorts of bits to make them look grizzeled - if you dont like that, pick another unit (eg elisum drop troopers) and paint them in the same scheme - makes them look like vets.

Its the same reason why I dont see the point in making a separate box for marine veterans - sure there are plenty of individiual vet models and command squads - but giving you a tactical squad modeled as first company marines would actually make them look LESS like veterans because everyones army would look exactly the same then.

I don't really mind building from scratch, but I was wondering what everyone else thought on the subject. On that note, My vet's are a combination of Catachan and Cadian sprues, Each squad of (8 so far, still need to finish them :P) has A vet Sergeant with power weapon and bolt pistol, a Vox man with a bolter, a spare guy with a bolter, one flamer, and two of the three squads have a missle launcher, the third has a meltagun.

Maidel
22-11-2007, 23:11
I'd love to see what they came up with and would be happy to see official models for every unit in the codex

They do have models - the normal ones.

Its he same as saying 'why are their no conscript models'

there are - they are just the same as the normal guard models- its up to you how you make that distinction - painting or modeling

starlight
22-11-2007, 23:27
At *most* I'd be in favour of an *upgrade* sprue, but I make mine with conversions, Bitz and paint.:)

JimmyP0567
22-11-2007, 23:35
At *most* I'd be in favour of an *upgrade* sprue, but I make mine with conversions, Bitz and paint.:)

I agree with you on the Upgrade sprue, I can only imagine what I would come up with if one of those existed while I was building mine.

Cry of the Wind
22-11-2007, 23:40
They do have models - the normal ones.

Its he same as saying 'why are their no conscript models'

there are - they are just the same as the normal guard models- its up to you how you make that distinction - painting or modeling

So your telling me that there are shotgun armed or laspistol + ccw armed models in the normal box? The trend is for GW to make every option in the codex a separate buyable model.

Along the same line there really should be some other way of determining who is a conscript and who is a full guardsmen besides paint job as this could cause a WYSIWYG confusion in a player unfamiliar with the unit as they look the same as a different unit but might have a different paint job. If you tried to claim that all the blue plasma guns in your army fire like melta guns and the red ones shoot like normal you'd have an issue with most people (and while I know that is a slightly exaggerated example you must see my point about why there should be a separate model if things like the stat line are different). After all the marines get veteran models that have the same war gear as normal tactical marines and they look different (and once again sorry about the example as we all know marines will be 100% plastic with all sorts of model support before any one else gets a remake ;)).

The point is that the models should be clearly different from normal guard besides just painting. After all they have a different stat line and different special rules and options. Right now the onus is on us the gamer to convert suitable models and while I like that just as much as the next guy I can't help but feel that there should be some official support from GW on the issue, even if I'd never buy them because I'd rather convert my own (just like my converted Space Marine veterans...no stock metal guys for me). That's why I'm torn on the idea, converting = awesome unique units, but no support = less frequent use of a cool fluffy unit.

Bunnahabhain
23-11-2007, 00:24
So your telling me that there are shotgun armed or laspistol + ccw armed models in the normal box? The trend is for GW to make every option in the codex a separate buyable model.


Laspistol and ccw- yes

shotgun- remove end of flamer, and a few other details, eg fuel pipe from it, a nd you have a combat shotgun. And you have lots of spare flamers...

It's reasonable to assume a tiny amount of modelling ability when building an oddball unit like veterans.

EDIT: Plastic storm troopers are more likely, and more useful, as the Inq. can use them as well, and as noted, slight conversions of existing plastics cover veterans well enough at the moment.

catbarf
23-11-2007, 00:25
I think that when Cadians get updated, we may see something like this. I imagine they'll do something like Orks- recut the sprues to 10 per box, and add in special weapons. What I also imagine, however, is that they'll add in parts to make greatcoat Guard and also things that can be used as Veterans.

In a perfect world they'd include parts for a heavy weapons team... I can only dream :p

catbarf
23-11-2007, 00:37
Agreed. Lucky for us, that's one thing GW seems to be moving towards.

Although I must say, the detail on my Vostroyans is quite crisp compared to that of Cadians...

Cry of the Wind
23-11-2007, 01:12
Laspistol and ccw- yes

shotgun- remove end of flamer, and a few other details, eg fuel pipe from it, a nd you have a combat shotgun. And you have lots of spare flamers...

It's reasonable to assume a tiny amount of modelling ability when building an oddball unit like veterans.

EDIT: Plastic storm troopers are more likely, and more useful, as the Inq. can use them as well, and as noted, slight conversions of existing plastics cover veterans well enough at the moment.

The laspistol and CCW is only good for Sgt models unless you're good enough at removing chevrons without making a mess, and in any even you can't equip the whole unit with them, which is an option (much like the box should include plasma guns and melta guns...). And once again even if conversion wasn't needed there are still only 1 flamer for every 5 guys...hardly a full squad worth...

While I agree that conversion is normally going to happen for squads that have veteran status, there are players out there who don't have the skill or bitz box needed to do so. That's why I feel there should be options for everything while at the same time know that I probably wouldn't use them anyway.

Plastic Storm Troopers would be a god send no doubt (and I'm waiting for the day with great hope for what they will look like), but at least there are models out there for them now.

catbarf
23-11-2007, 01:26
That would be cool, but I'm not sure it would fit within 40k.

Although, that would be an EXCELLENT base for Firefly miniatures.

Cry of the Wind
23-11-2007, 01:30
That would be cool, but I'm not sure it would fit within 40k.

It fits into 40k somewhere in the Imperium... I recall a short story or two that deals with primative cultures existing within the Imperium where those weapons might be widespread. I don't think those worlds had IG regiments though...

It would just be something that probably won't sell to great. There is a reason that Cadians are the primary IG model and not say Praetorians (sp?, and no offense to those players, but the style of the Cadians is more universally liked).

killa kan kaus
23-11-2007, 02:26
Just give us plastic Tallarn and mordians

Feor
23-11-2007, 02:43
What would be ideal would be if when the Greatcoat guard that are coming next spring hit, they release a veteran upgrade box that would cover all three of them. A generic set of weapons, then arms for each brand designed to hold those weapons, and a few other bitz for customizing models.

Col. Dash
23-11-2007, 02:44
No thanks. The purpose of the vets is like it says in the old codex "we arent making these models, we leave it up to your imagination to come up with cool conversions for them" (maybe not quite those words, but thats the gist of it) It is too easy to do conversions as simple as making vets for IG seeing as they would be nothing more than more heavily equipped or frazzled regular troops.

JimmyP0567
23-11-2007, 03:40
No thanks. The purpose of the vets is like it says in the old codex "we arent making these models, we leave it up to your imagination to come up with cool conversions for them" (maybe not quite those words, but thats the gist of it) It is too easy to do conversions as simple as making vets for IG seeing as they would be nothing more than more heavily equipped or frazzled regular troops.

I can see where you'r ecoming from, and like I've said, I've made some conversions for my guys, which was enjoyable, but at the same time, I like the aspect of having an upgrade sprue, simliar to the Black Templars one (Although that just includes various bitz, and not anything new :/)

dodgethis
23-11-2007, 04:54
Shotguns and accompanying arms please. That's about the only thing stopping me from starting IG. And no, I won't use Scout shotguns and buying from FW aren't worth it for me unless I can just buy those 'sprues'.

Wagesage
23-11-2007, 05:06
Personally,I would like to see an accessory sprue with some shotguns /backpacks/medic supplies/bolt pistols/power weapon/power fist/other misc. bits. Hell, maybe even throw on a plasma and a melta gun?;)

Plastic stormtroopers would be great too, as would plastic cadian roughriders (personally, i think cadians would use bikes instead though).:p

KwisatchHaderach
23-11-2007, 05:10
People need to quit asking for Plastic Mordians. You can buy Mordians now...what I would prefer they do is start an entirely new line of Guardsmen models. You can never have enough variety.

As to the Original Question, I modelled my Veterans EXACTLY the same way as I modelled my other Guardsmen, I just painted the base differently. In the real military "Hardened Veterans" dress the same as everyone else.

Gaius_Baltar
23-11-2007, 06:04
It would be kinda cool. but it would be good if GW simply made an upgrade sprue for them, like they did for the dark templars. just have a sprue with a bunch of bits and stuff, like veretan looking heards, and some wargead, and customized lazgins ext.

Though it would be much better if GW started producing all the other IG infantry from 3rd edition in plastic... or at least a few of them, like steel legion, or mordian.

Cry of the Wind
23-11-2007, 17:06
As to the Original Question, I modelled my Veterans EXACTLY the same way as I modelled my other Guardsmen, I just painted the base differently. In the real military "Hardened Veterans" dress the same as everyone else.

Not saying the need different uniforms, just something to make them look like veterans. I'm sure if you took a look at a unit that has been fighting in field for a while and stood them next to a newly arrived unit that has only been fighting for a few days you'd have some visual differences between them.

Colonel Marbi Chora
25-11-2007, 23:47
I think that then ten-man box set is actually a really good idea for imperial guard, but I also have another question. Why dosen't anyone think that femal guarsmen would be cool? I mean, in the backstory of Cadia itself, it says half of the army is made up of females! I can't make stuff out of greenstuff to save my life, and I don't really want to pay some specialist modeller to make a thing of female imperial guard, but I think it would look pretty nice. But hey, that might just be me.

Count Sinister
26-11-2007, 00:03
An upgrade sprue would seem to be the way to go, as it would allow almost anybody to build a vet squad, but still give hard-core modellers and converters the scope to do what they like to do - model and convert. I agree that some female troopers would be an excellent addition to the IG line, and in plastic, of course. That said, I am busy converting my veterans (I'm an IG newbie, and have only just started my army) using Catachan legs with the waists filed to fit the Cadian torsos. Onto the torsos I've put WH fantasy Chaos Marauder arms (as I hate the Catachan arms), and then sculpted the sleeves of t-shirts onto the shoulders and upper arms with green stuff. This allows me to cover the gaps left when I use Marauder arms and put lasguns from the Cadian sprue onto them. I'm going to model lighters/cigarette packs rolled into the sleeves, playing cards in helmet bands, and so on. Looking forward to finishing the project, in fact!

Colonel Kevlar
26-11-2007, 03:43
I think that an upgrade sprue, especially with shotguns or laspistols, would be great. However, since I'm a catachan player it would be nigh on useless (unless GW goes crazy and becides to make more Catachans, which would be perfect!). Also, it's just awsome to see all those conversions for Vets, and more people would stop converting if this happened.

Hope this made sense,
The Kevlar Colonel

Cypher
26-11-2007, 09:07
Something Im expecting to see with the new codex is a "command" style sprue for IG, which would basically have extra bits for officers and the like. One could reasonably assume that such a sprue would be a good source of "veteran" bits.

As an aside, the Middenheim sprue that comes with the Empire Knights has a good selection of heads if you want some variety.