PDA

View Full Version : Leman Russ Demolisher



LoneSniperSG
23-11-2007, 06:23
I'm currently in the process of building a Leman Russ Demolisher from a partial kit (Used the treads and wheels elsewhere). I'm not really familiar with these beasties, being used to only Vindies with my Wolves. What's the best pair of sponsons to give to a Demolisher? And the best hull weapon? I only plan to use her in Apoc, but that could possibly change.

Stella Cadente
23-11-2007, 06:30
personally, I think Heavy bolters all round, I never understood why people waste points on Plasmas and multi meltas and lascannons, those Leman russ's usually do very little with those weapons

Rahveel
23-11-2007, 06:33
I 2nd stella on that.

KwisatchHaderach
23-11-2007, 06:52
My rule is usually to go as cheap as possible on vehicle sponsoons. The point is to have them be as cheap as possible. If you are firing something other than the Demolisher cannon, something has gone horribly wrong.

obithius
23-11-2007, 07:25
Weapon destroyed is usually what's gone wrong..!I have plasma cannons on mine,so when the turret is gone I can still point two plasma cannons and a lascannon at someone,usually enough to make them squirm!

KwisatchHaderach
23-11-2007, 07:39
Weapon destroyed is usually what's gone wrong..!I have plasma cannons on mine,so when the turret is gone I can still point two plasma cannons and a lascannon at someone,usually enough to make them squirm!

Not worth the massive points usually.

Hicks
23-11-2007, 07:57
I always field a demolisher and I always give it a hull lascannon, no sponsons and extra armor. I find that sponsons are a waste of points because I always prefer to shoot with the demolisher cannon instead. The hull lascanon is there for tank hunting and I can tell you that having this instead of a heavy bolter saved my butt countless times. Extra armor is there incase I need to hide in cover after a getting shot.

The demolisher is my favorite guard tank, it's a lot of fun to use because you tend to move it a lot and it's very destructive.

Stormhammers
23-11-2007, 08:50
I like the hvy bolter hull and plasma cannon sponsons on my Demolisher. I use my demolisher to support infatry and murder swarms or enemy infantry.

MuttMan
23-11-2007, 09:45
My bud packs a lascannon and 2 plasma cannons, 'cause for some reason he always gets the thing immobilised, or his main cannon gets blown off. 185 points isnt that bad, considering the backup weapons would cost you just as much in a marine army. (with less BS, of course)

centy
23-11-2007, 09:56
you only need the demolisher cannon.
I have never fired the other weapons on any of mine.
If you have enemy closing in then they can probably hurt your tank so demolisher cannon them, if it scatters beck towards you you have armor 14 on the front so have a chance.
I played chaos abainst gaurd and the only thing that scared me was his demolisher.

Make it cheap as and get a second one.

Bunnahabhain
23-11-2007, 09:57
3 heavy bolters, but it's magnetised

They're a useful secondry weapons fit, allow me to move and fire everything, so I won't get auto hit in combat, and are cheap, which means I save enough points to buy AP2 elsewhere in the list, on infantry who can't be stunned and shaked.

Voleron
23-11-2007, 10:01
I tend to go by necessity (magnetized). Usually I take the Hull lascannon for a backup anti-tank gun, but if I'm facing a horde army i'll swap it for Hull and sponson heavy bolters. If i'm /really/ strapped for points, i'll occasionally just use the Hull HB, but that's rare.

I tried the plascans once, but I found them to be a bit of a points-waste. Never tried the multi-meltas.

WLBjork
23-11-2007, 10:34
It's really dependent on what you are facing.

Against some targets, HBs are pretty useful, against other targets a Lascannon and sponson Plasma Cannon are more useful.

Heck, luck dependent, you could do better with your secondaries than with your primaries - happened to me last game. Battlecannon killed 1 Marine (due to scatter and cover) in 2 turns of firing, hull Lascannon killed 1 Marine and 1 Predator Destructor in 2 turns of firing. That bit of luck was more than countered by my Heavy Bolters though - 21 shots and no kills - less than a 10% chance of that happening :(

eek107
23-11-2007, 10:41
Whatever you do you'll at least want to match weapons by strength and AP. If you've put a HB on the hull, do the same on the sponsons. I'd put Plasmas with a Lascannon (and do with mine) simply because the outrange the meltas.

I put sponsons on simply to make sure I don't cry when the demolisher cannon gets destroyed. Without sponsons, it just becomes an AV14 heavy weapon.

bram kuijpers
23-11-2007, 10:46
all round heavy bolters 9 shots is great since the main cannon is a 24 inch gun
just park your but and shoot the heavy bolters and then when there in range you start the demoliser cannon and not just that where else in the ig can you get 3 heavy bolters that may move and fire for 15points? and the lemman russ is a front armour 14 tank not alot of weapons just go through there

Sgt Biffo
23-11-2007, 11:02
There are good arguments to be made for the minimalist approach to sponsons. I don't however agree with them.

On an open board (the space battle of Kursk?) a Demolisher Canons range is an inhibiting factor. Las-Canon's for Vehicle targets and Plasma Canons for troops ('cause there are virtually no troops that can shrug off a Plasma Canon).

Once your in its wasted points I suppose, but so is getting smoked before you've had a chance to do anything.

Bookwrak
23-11-2007, 11:06
I use Lascannon and Plasma, because primarily, I use my Demolisher for tackling things with high T, 2+saves and the like, and if there's a carnifex on the board, I'd rather be shooting at it 3 times at 36" rather than once at 24".

dcikgyurt
23-11-2007, 11:09
I have to say that hull lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons always seem like a good back up once you ordnance weapon is gone. The Lascannon for tanks and the heavy bolter for troops. That said, having back up weapons isn't compulsory so you could always go with a hull heavy bolter (as hull weapons are comulsory, I belive, and it's the cheapest option) and leave the sides empty.

Bloodknight
23-11-2007, 11:12
I use heavy bolters and a lascannon because the Demo often has to move to get a shot with his demolisher cannon in, so he might as well do a bit of damage on the move. Plasma ist too expensive and can only be fired to full effect when stationary (although hull heavy bolter and plasma sponsons would allow for firing a PC and HB on the move), Flamers and Multimeltas are useless due to the same or shorter range than the main gun.

Stormhammers
23-11-2007, 11:15
see, I like to specialize my tanks, I use my demolisher to tackle tough infatry and attack dug in positions while supporting my own infatry, hence the plascannons and hvy bolter combo. I like templates and yes, plasmacannons will kill pretty much whatever they hit and they have a reasonable range (unlike the nearly useless multi meltas) I really dont like having my tanks (or infatry squads) split in their roles. Sure it adds versatility, but sacrifices sheer power.

Misanthrope
23-11-2007, 12:28
Putting Las or Plas on Demolishers is simple; they have much bigger range than the bolter-range Demolisher cannon so while that behemoth is moving slowly towards the enemy you can still be letting shots off all over the place.

Grindgodgrind
23-11-2007, 12:34
Now, multimeltas used to be useful on the demolisher.....back when they had a 2" blast radius...back in the day.

Earthbeard
23-11-2007, 12:42
Tend to take hull lascannon myself.

Sponsons I usually never use, but if i did, would be heavy bolters.

Bunnahabhain
23-11-2007, 15:41
Putting Las or Plas on Demolishers is simple; they have much bigger range than the bolter-range Demolisher cannon so while that behemoth is moving slowly towards the enemy you can still be letting shots off all over the place.


Heavy bolters- 36" + 6 " movement as can move and fire all defensive weapons

Plasma cannons-36"
Las cannon- 48"
-can only fire one S7+ weapon and move, so if letting shots off all over the place it's not moving, or not firreing everything

So which set up has the longer range then?

Stormhammers
23-11-2007, 16:43
Again, I dont like the lascannon on the hull, sure, it gives you a long range shot, but why, it's a waste of points to get a single, long range shot. Once you get in close, you still have just a single shot. With a hvy bolter, once you get in demolisher range, you can open up with full fury. I like the plasma cannons just because it gives you the mobile firepower. Sure, the hvy bolter sponsons would be a good idea and mow down swarms of infatry, but that's what my exterminator is for.

killa kan kaus
23-11-2007, 16:47
Bolters all around is a good choice for demolishers but bolter lascannon bolter goes on my russes

MegaPope
23-11-2007, 18:55
Plasma cannons here. It's the only way you get them in a normal IG force. That alone makes them worth it.

My Demolishers are normally defensive weapons for bolstering my main battle line of foot troops. I use them for area denial duties and protecting flanks. I try to put them in shortish fire lanes where the enemy can't easily see them, or I'll get them overlooking objectives. If I have to use them on the attack, they provide rolling fire support for mechanised Stormtroopers and Hellhounds. Always remember that Demolishers tend to work best as infantry support tanks.

Demolishers need sponsons of some kind more than regular Russes due to the short range of the turret gun. Plus, the sponson las-plas is expensive, but it allows the Demolisher to be a threat to any type of target at three different range bands. Leaving it with just the main gun or a brace of peashooters is a waste of its abilities.

freebooter
23-11-2007, 20:06
I'd say heavy bolters all round.

That way once the Demolisher Cannon is knocked out you're still a major threat because of the 3 heavy bolters. Most people will dismiss them once they've knocked out the main gun so with any luck you'll get at least one extra turn of laying down the pain on any opposing Infantry.

LoneSniperSG
24-11-2007, 03:38
I see equal arguments for Las/plas and triple HB. Maybe I should flip a damn coin..

devolutionary
24-11-2007, 03:48
My Demolisher is effectively the only piece of tailored anti-MEQ equipment in my force, so I got Plasma/Bolter, if only to optimise my options for mobile warfare. Often you only can fire one of the sponsons and the hull gun, and I want to get all the firepower out of that I can. If I was to create a purely tank-busting tank, it'd be Multi-meltas. I put a lot of effort in to my tanks though, favouring individual strength and entrapment over quantity.

Stormhammers
24-11-2007, 06:51
finally, someone who agrees with me!

Mort
24-11-2007, 07:35
I use 1 Lascannon,no sponsons.

I prefer to have a backup Anti-Tank Weapon because my demo always gets a lot of fire and looses his turret that way.

Gorbad Ironclaw
24-11-2007, 07:48
Plasma cannons here. It's the only way you get them in a normal IG force. That alone makes them worth it.



Except Plasma Cannons with the current rules are quite bad. Granted, not quite as bad on a vehicle as it is on infantry, but due to the way you have to place templates, it's essentially a one-short weapon.

They could be worth it if the template rules change again, but currently I don't find blast templates very useful at all.

Escaflowne_Z
24-11-2007, 08:19
My normal Russes only have a hull mount, one has a Heavy Bolter and one has a Lascannon. Russes draw fire. Mine go boom. I save the points and put those on a Demolisher. +1 armor makes it more survivable, and having to play with a shorter range necessitates the use of LOS blockage to keep it alive. My Demolisher has a hull bolter and sponson plasma. Like a previous poster, My Demolisher is the only ranged AP2 I've got, so it has to get loaded up.

Stella Cadente
24-11-2007, 08:23
just a thing for those who use Plasma cannons

think about this, when your using allot of Ordnance, as guard tend to do, whats the first thing your enemy does?..........thats right, he spaces out as much as he can to avoid the ORDNANCE weapon, now do you really think those extremely exspensive Plasma cannons are gonna do squat to a squad thats got 2" gaps between each man?...........NO, waste of points, waste of time, heavy bolters are cheaper, and don't care how much you space out.

devolutionary
24-11-2007, 08:34
just a thing for those who use Plasma cannons

think about this, when your using allot of Ordnance, as guard tend to do, whats the first thing your enemy does?..........thats right, he spaces out as much as he can to avoid the ORDNANCE weapon, now do you really think those extremely exspensive Plasma cannons are gonna do squat to a squad thats got 2" gaps between each man?...........NO, waste of points, waste of time, heavy bolters are cheaper, and don't care how much you space out.

Consider this - a Plasma Cannon hitting two Marines will kill them better than a Heavy Bolter hitting three.

Consider this - a Plasma Cannon can kill anything up to AV13, a Heavy Bolter can't.

Consider this - being pompous about somebody else's opinions and proceeding to lecture others for daring to view things in a different light is really bad form.

So please, consider what I have said. This is a community, not MyClones.

Stella Cadente
24-11-2007, 08:40
Consider this - a Plasma Cannon hitting two Marines will kill them better than a Heavy Bolter hitting three.
only if they can hit those two marines, and if your enemy is smart, they won't be hit, and even if hes not smart, they still probably won't hit because small blast templates are practically useless


Consider this - a Plasma Cannon can kill anything up to AV13, a Heavy Bolter can't.
your str10 gun can do MUCH better than some plasma cannon, so why waste it, use your infantry to take out tanks


Consider this - being pompous about somebody else's opinions and proceeding to lecture others for daring to view things in a different light is really bad form.

I wasn't being pompus, I was just pointing out something that happens every time someone takes plasma cannons on a demolisher, your opponent will make an already useless gun, and make it more than useless.


So please, consider what I have said. This is a community, not MyClones.
myclones doesn't even make sense

devolutionary
24-11-2007, 08:45
only if they can hit those two marines, and if your enemy is smart, they won't be hit, and even if hes not smart, they still probably won't hit because small blast templates are practically useless

Except that you seem to be assuming that at all times, in all circumstances, that he will be spread out to maximum with every target. In my experience this is very rarely the case.


your str10 gun can do MUCH better than some plasma cannon, so why waste it, use your infantry to take out tanks

There's this thing called weapon destroyed, and an associated concept called contingency.


I wasn't being pompus, I was just pointing out something that happens every time someone takes plasma cannons on a demolisher, your opponent will make an already useless gun, and make it more than useless.

No, you were lecturing and your entire tone was one of smug superiority. You were using anecdotal evidence and applying it as a statement of fact. Last I checked this was a discussion based on experiences and sharing of views, not on discrediting the views of others.

If you were "just pointing out something" you would have pointed out your experience with blast templates and unit spacing and used that as a cohesive but well informed argument to explain your weapon selection.


myclones doesn't even make sense

It most certainly does if you have a reasonable view of social networking.

Stella Cadente
24-11-2007, 08:55
Except that you seem to be assuming that at all times, in all circumstances, that he will be spread out to maximum with every target. In my experience this is very rarely the case.
in my experience, they will spread out, guaranteed, heck even I do when fighting guard


There's this thing called weapon destroyed, and an associated concept called contingency.
if your weapon gets blown off, oh well, those 3 Heavy bolters will murder infantry


No, you were lecturing and your entire tone was one of smug superiority. You were using anecdotal evidence and applying it as a statement of fact. Last I checked this was a discussion based on experiences and sharing of views, not on discrediting the views of others.
how does typing have a tone?
and anyway it is experience, both from using and fighting guard and demolishers, heck I ripped the plasma cannons off mine because they were so useless


If you were "just pointing out something" you would have pointed out your experience with blast templates and unit spacing and used that as a cohesive but well informed argument to explain your weapon selection.
my experience with blast templates hey, ok the enemy spaces out to make the demolishers less effective, and in the progress makes your Plasmas useless, its just obvious, I don't even need the experience to tell people what we all know, heck we say it about space marine plasma cannons pretty much everyday, but as soon as it comes down to 2 mounted on a tank, they suddenly become awesomely useful overnight.


It most certainly does if you have a reasonable view of social networking.
wha?

Stormhammers
24-11-2007, 08:56
also, the plasmacannon has better range than the demolisher and even if you just hit 2 marines, that makes 2 marines dead, with HB, that's not always the case, and yes, having hard hitting plasma cannons is a good thing to have if/when the main gun is taken out.
My experience with blast templates is quite the contrary, there have been many times when the small blast template has taken out quite a few enemies in a single shot. Also, if you use the terrain to your advantage, you may be able to force your enemies into a bottleneck, then the blast (as well as most templates) come in handy.

kanluwen
24-11-2007, 09:20
I usually go with hull mounted las; sponson heavy bolters and pintle heavy stubber on my standard Russes. It gives you a bit of tank crackin' power if the main gun is down along with enough firepower to bring down infantry that it usually makes its points back no matter what.

Ancient_Galatan
24-11-2007, 09:26
I take three, two with triple HB, one las/MM. I just prefer rolling more dice, my lascannons never seem to hit :(.

In regards to both layouts,i say both are viable-pick whichever one you think will be better against a certain opponent. If you dont want to commit just use blu-tac and try both setups in a few games, i know i've done it.


As for contingency plans, if your demolisher loses its main gun and has to tackle enemy tanks, and doesn't have any of your other tank busting weapons in range to help it out (which you should have loads of, this is the imperial guard :angel:), then you might want to reconsider how you are using it or what you are supporting it with. The imperial guard works best as a sum of its parts.

LoneSniperSG
25-11-2007, 00:20
Except Plasma Cannons with the current rules are quite bad. Granted, not quite as bad on a vehicle as it is on infantry, but due to the way you have to place templates, it's essentially a one-short weapon.

They could be worth it if the template rules change again, but currently I don't find blast templates very useful at all.

.. I must be an idiot.. I didn't recall PC's used templates.


just a thing for those who use Plasma cannons

think about this, when your using allot of Ordnance, as guard tend to do, whats the first thing your enemy does?..........thats right, he spaces out as much as he can to avoid the ORDNANCE weapon, now do you really think those extremely exspensive Plasma cannons are gonna do squat to a squad thats got 2" gaps between each man?...........NO, waste of points, waste of time, heavy bolters are cheaper, and don't care how much you space out.

Before someone's blood is splashed on this page, I raise the question of having two PC's and a hull HB. Seems like that would assist in the problem Stella brought up.

As of now, I believe I am leaning toward two PC's. I like Melta's, but the Marine army my Demolisher will be assisting (to begin with) has many Meltaguns and Multi-Melta's. Plasma is a rare thing in my army, because I tend to be overly paranoid about it going "pop" on my troops.

Stormhammers
25-11-2007, 04:37
meltas on a tank seems useless to me. The fact that they are short ranged (well, not THAT short) single shot and to get the full effect of it, it has to be 12' away from an enemy tank, your demolisher shouldn't be getting that close to enemy tanks. the plas gives you hard hitting firepower for those times when your own troops may be in the vicinity of your target, and again, hit a marine with a plas...he wont be getting up