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Black Antelope
23-11-2007, 06:49
This is my other idea for the tournament (see Skryre 500p Schools Tournament List (http://http://warseer.com/forums/fantasy-army-lists/114448-skryre-500p-schools-tournament-list.html) ) (I hope I doing the right thing, or am I supposed to post them both at once?)

Rules of tournament
No named Characters
No rare
Must have 1 hero
Must have 1 core
No more than 2 levels of magic in total.

Anyway, the only other army I like is DE, so here is a list for them:

My List

Hero

Noble - Hand weapon, Lance, shield, Heavy armour, cold one - 106

Core

10x Warriors - Hand weapon, shield, spear, musician - 125
10x Warriors - Hand weapon, cross bow, musician - 110

Special

5x Cold One knights - Hand weapon, Lance, Shield, musician -154


So, how good is this army list.

Any ideas on how to improve it or which list to take would be greatly appreciated.

Little Aaad
23-11-2007, 18:58
Ok, I am going to help you.

Lets learn a little about the DE's way of fighting.

Advantages:
Fast
Hard-hitting
Good Leadership

Disadvantages:
Fragile (T)
Fragile (Sv)
Expensive

So, a good DE force must be fast, hard-hitting and units must be kept to a bare minimum (points-wise).

Lets take a look at your list.

{Noble - Hand weapon, Lance, shield, Heavy armour, cold one - 106}

Looks OK. However clean up the list and take handweapon off. I don't think a Cold One is necessary in 500 points, as a unit of Cold Ones on their own provides a hard-hitting and fast unit to rely upon.

{10x Warriors - Hand weapon, shield, spear, musician - 125}

Absolutly not...This one is a big, big mistake. Spearmen are slow, so need numbers to rely upon. A unit of ten is a rediculously low amount of hitting power. If it was Cold Ones then maybe because they can work well in small groups. If you are keen to use Warriors. Units of 20 is a minimum (with the exception of Crossbows).

{10x Warriors - Hand weapon, cross bow, musician - 11}

11 points for 10 Crossbows! Wow I want some! Don't you mean 110? This unit is fine, but DE shooting in 500 points is suprisingly bad. However, you need the core...

{5x Cold One knights - Hand weapon, Lance, Shield -154}

This one is fine. Might I suggest a Musician though. You'll be glad you had it.

{So, how good is this army list.}

Not very well thought out.

{Any ideas on how to improve it or which list to take would be greatly appreciated.}

Sure, I can rewrite it for you using my advice. Then you can make your own better. How does that sound?

Here it goes:

Hero

Noble - Hand weapon, Halberd, shield, Heavy armour - 80

Core

20x Warriors - Standard Bearer, Lordling, Musician - 165
19x Warriors - Standard Bearer, Lordling - 153

Rare

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower

I know I changed the list quite a lot, but I only did so because it is a tornament. Bearing in mind this is just advice and you can choose to ignore this. I took the Cold Ones out because for 500 points, 154 or so points for 5 models will just be crushed. It may look good on paper, but on the field a single bolt thrower or any other warmachine will sort them out. Save them for the 1000 point lists.

Tactics: Battle Line advances towards the enemy. Noble sits in the 19 man unit to make it 20. They advance at full speed, acting as an anvil. 40 models in 500 points is actually VERY tough for an elite army. So outnumbering won't be a problem. I find most 500p lists take one combat unit like you did, and the spearmen can take a charge from most things in a low point game. Once charges, the other unit can flank and finish them off. In the case that you are outnumbered, 4 ranks of attacks and a Noble should be able to kill most things. The list will struggle against Orcs, Ogres and Chaos if they take lots of T4 stuff. The single bolt thrower will, if not repel, but soften all heavy units, boosting the chances of the force to survive. (Note: DE's don't have good armur saves and I find they do pretty much the same job with no shields. 40 points is better invested in a bolt thrower.)

Conclusion: This list has a good amount of models, some long range fire support and survivability. It is weak against all T4+ armies if the bolt thrower does'nt do very good. It is strong against all else.

Hope I have helped, Little!

P.S. I like this list so much I am actually consider using it myself!

Black Antelope
24-11-2007, 06:34
Ok, I am going to help you.

Rare

1x Repeater Bolt Thrower



I can not take rare stuff, choises are 1-2 heros, 1+ core, 0-2 specail

Makarion
24-11-2007, 08:03
How about this?

Sorceress, darkstar cloak, dark steed. (in unit of dark riders)

Dark Riders (5), herald, musician, rxb
Dark Riders (5), musician, rxb.

Shades (5)

Adds up to exactly 500 points, and it's quite likely your enemy will not kill a single model while you run circles around him or her.

Little Aaad
24-11-2007, 17:38
Oh, you should have said.
Try:

Hero

Noble - Hand weapon, Halberd, Heavy armour - 80

Core

20x Warriors - Standard Bearer, Lordling, Musician - 165
19x Warriors - Standard Bearer, Lordling - 153
5x Dark Riders - Repeating Crossbows, Musician - 128

500

Exactly 500, same tactics as before but the dark riders can shoot and flank in support with your battle line. A very offensive force.

Black Antelope
25-11-2007, 06:54
How about this?

Sorceress, darkstar cloak, dark steed. (in unit of dark riders)

Dark Riders (5), herald, musician, rxb
Dark Riders (5), musician, rxb.

Shades (5)

Adds up to exactly 500 points, and it's quite likely your enemy will not kill a single model while you run circles around him or her.

Hmm, good list and it sounds fun, but that only comes to 465. If I drop the herald and give the Sorceress lvl2 it becomes 491. Is the Herald good enough not to give lvl2?

On the lvl2 list, is their any point giving the Sorceress a Bighting blade? (-1Sv), and which lore to give her? Dark, Death or Shadow. I take it the Sorceress just runs around in a unit, pounding away with magic missiles?

Makarion
25-11-2007, 19:27
Fast cavalry cannot stand up to close combat very well, so you'll want to flee when charged. The musician gives a better rallying chance after fleeing.

Also, fast cavalry is allowed to reform into any formation, and can still shoot after fleeing (other unit types cannot). So you can harass your opponent and flee when chagred, shoot some more, flee if he comes at you again, etc.
It's of course better to be in his flank and avoid the need for a flight, but the option is there. Just make sure you're not fleeing directly to a table edge from 5" or so away, that'd be bad.

Little Aaad
25-11-2007, 19:57
the DR tactic don't work, it needs cold one support.

Makarion
25-11-2007, 20:02
I politely disagree.

The cold ones actually hinder a lot, since they require melee and that would mean you cannot shoot anymore. The idea of a dark rider-heavy force is to avoid all melee and just ride circles around him shooting. It works best at small battles such as this, though.

Now, the sorceress is there mainly to deal with units like enemy heavy cavalry, where the dark riders might have a hard time wounding.

Makarion
26-11-2007, 00:47
Hmm, good list and it sounds fun, but that only comes to 465. If I drop the herald and give the Sorceress lvl2 it becomes 491. Is the Herald good enough not to give lvl2?

On the lvl2 list, is their any point giving the Sorceress a Bighting blade? (-1Sv), and which lore to give her? Dark, Death or Shadow. I take it the Sorceress just runs around in a unit, pounding away with magic missiles?

I must have miscounted, since I thought it added up to 500 exactly; there's little other reason for the herald, really, since even for challenges it's perhaps not worth it - you are better of fleeing from the melee.

Thanks for catching it, but I had indeed thought of a level 2 sorceress - just forgot to note it down.

I don't believe that much can be done with the 9 leftover points, though.

Little Aaad
15-12-2007, 18:58
I would not use the DR army. It would strongly rely upon killing lots with shooting and if you think 20 shots a turn hitting on 5 average and str 3 will do much then you must always face T3 troops. I strongly agree with either Cold Ones or at least something that can fight combats. Maybe have two Chariots, a cheap noble, and two units of DR.

Noble, Lance, Enchanted Shield, HA, DS
DR x5, Musician
DR x5, Musician
Chariot, Spears
Chariot, Spears
498

Although no shooting, Chariots provide a HARD hit and if they don't provide a one hit wonder then the DR can flank to negate ranks. If this fails you will be terribly unlucky.