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El Presedente
23-11-2007, 19:40
Ok so we all know how everyone bums Japanese stuff these days (if you pardon the choice of wording) Manga, John Woo, Nintendo and so forth, but I was just wondering what do the Japanese (and Korea and the rest of the orient) think of the stuff we come up with (and by we I don't just mean the US, i mean the UK, Canada, Australia and Europe to a lesser extent).

Lets face it, the Japanese have always been somewhat steriotyped as the most touristy nation on earth (my brother once saw them taking photos of fish and chip) and they seem happy to embrace other cultures (possible fact: contemperory Tokyo was based on LA from Blade Runner).

So how well known, and how well does stuff sell over there, I can see stuff like spiderman getting alot of attention, but what about stuff like Doctor Who, or Blackadder?

To the most extent this topics motivated by my interest in comics, is the whole manga craze really a two way thing and are our own comics selling just as well over there?

Any Japanese members out there who can tell me or anyone who's lived in Japan for a while?

Bloodknight
23-11-2007, 19:54
Blackadder is not even well known in Germany and we are basically neighbours of you. Never heard of Doctor Who before I came to these forums. ^^.

pwrgmrguard
23-11-2007, 20:37
Blackadder is a non term here in the states, and Doctor Who is only because the sci fi channel shows it. I don't think they've spread very far.

The pestilent 1
23-11-2007, 20:43
Blackadder is a non term here in the states, and Doctor Who is only because the sci fi channel shows it. I don't think they've spread very far.

Considering the Crap we got from you I think Blackadder would annihilate if it ever touched American "Comedy".

:p ;)

RavenMorpheus
23-11-2007, 20:47
Ooh an American bashing thread, oops no it's a Japanese opinion thread my bad. :D

Frasier - just as good as Blackadder imo, and that's from the US, so it's not all carp?!

Dunno how our stuff goes over in Japan but I personally find the Japanese "pop" culture, what we see of it anyway, to be v weird...

Bloodknight
23-11-2007, 20:50
Yeah, it's all so - pink. :) The Japanese Anime/pop culture influence on Gothic makes me cringe. I cannot stand these black/pink latex nurses I see in the clubs. Could they not just stay black? :p

The pestilent 1
23-11-2007, 20:51
Allow me to reiterate. :p;)

I quite liked Frasier (Never did see the last episode actually) and were I not drawing a complete blank on things right now I could probably name a few more as well..

El Presedente
23-11-2007, 20:51
Perhapse Blackadder was a bad example, sitcoms rarely travel well after all, if anything I think comics tend to travel the best.

One other thing, are imported western comics flipped to read right to left in Japan, like Manga's should be over here? I hate the way translated manga's still read from right to left for no good reason, but thats for another topic.

swordwind
23-11-2007, 20:56
What about Monty Python?

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-11-2007, 21:31
Monti Paitsun Furaiin Sirukusu!

Doesn't really work does it?

theunwantedbeing
23-11-2007, 23:11
Apparently wallace & gromit is pretty well known in japan/china.

Things like blackadder and monty python tend not to be well known anywhere but england in general simply down to it being only really an english form of comedy that the rest of the world seems to fail to understand. (hence why the british are the best).

The japanese/chinese do tend to hold certain western products in a higher regard...ie the yakuza driving around in big black mercedes rather than some japanese car.
Or there being a really rather worrying group who seem to like having american motorcycles and dressing up just like the old american police(their bikes are the same bikes the american police used to use) and just driving around for no apparent reason.

If I can think of anything else I shall add it.

TheLionReturns
23-11-2007, 23:11
Some Japanese former colleagues of mine loved British comedy like Yes Minister. Apparently comedy that pokes fun at the political establishment isn't produced much over there.

Crazy Harborc
23-11-2007, 23:27
The cable and dish companies in the USA have and still do carry Blackadder, Dr.Who, Benny Hill, well over a dozen British detective hour shows as well as two hour shows.

Stahlgeist
24-11-2007, 01:53
I cannot stand these black/pink latex nurses I see in the clubs.

Bite your tongue! ANYTIME a girl wears latex, it's a great thing, no matter the color(s)! :D

And I've personally helped many Americans stray into Blackadder territory. Now that Prince George is on TV every Tuesday night (as House), it's easier than ever.


Monti Paitsun Furaiin Sirukusu!

That's on the next custom T-shirt I make. :)

Crazy Harborc
24-11-2007, 02:10
Latex??? What about leather?:evilgrin:

Fortunately, our dish company has BBC. A couple of other stations are showing new(er) made on/in the Themes studios.;) programs.

Say is the "Robinhood series of last year running across the pond this year/season?

Xengami
24-11-2007, 05:25
I had a japanese exchange student a while ago, he was a fan of marvel comics. When he came over my family and I introduced him to Doctor Who and I got an email from him a while ago saying that Doctor Who was now on tv in Japan. So it definately gets over there, don't know if it is very popular though.

forgotten hero
24-11-2007, 05:48
Latex??? What about leather? lace is better imo ;)

i dont think much we (UK) produce travels tbh, as not many other countries/cultures get our comedy or 'British-ness' (Blackadder for example)

-Rob

sucramreverse
24-11-2007, 06:45
I get the impression that the Japanese are into any pop culture period. They mimic western culture constantly. And I imagine our comics are ridiculously popular over there. However japan produces so much manga/anime, I don't see how they'd have time for anything else.

And btw, mangas read that way because it would look bad if they mirrored everything. Also, it is cooler that way.

MONTY PYTHON FOR THE WIN!

(and a mention of hitchhiker's guide for fun!)

ozzfan
24-11-2007, 07:12
(my brother once saw them taking photos of fish and chip)

You think that's odd? I saw some japanese tourists take photos of my mate when we were on a school trip... They ran right up to the coach...

Strange people.

mistformsquirrel
24-11-2007, 07:19
Honestly - I have no idea.

If I had to make a guess (and because I'm me I will) - I'd probably say its something like some of us otaku treat Japan. Its something exotic and 'different' from what you get around you. For us Westerners, the East is unusual and strange. Reading Eastern philosophy, eating sushi and enjoying anime are a little different to us...

Likewise I suspect the same is true over there in reverse. Perhaps Marx, Nietzche and Socrates are considered "exotic" philosophers over there. I do know that western comics haven't really caught on big there (though that's not to say they don't have some following, its just not as big as the manga/anime following here - largely probably due to their bizarre inconsistencies; while manga stories tend to not have much in the way of retcons) - however I'm fairly sure that at least some western movies are popular in Japan.

Actually one I know for sure that was a big hit was The Last Samurai. Even though it starred an American (even the character was American) - it was a huge hit.

Mostly though I'm just musing. My best guess is that its all just different to them, just like Japan is different to most of us.

Btw, as for photographing your friend on a school trip - do you guys happen to have school uniforms in the UK?

Here in the US most public schools don't; but I know in Japan most/all do. It may be a difference in attire that made them want to take a picture?

I'm just guessing mind you! I really don't know anything for sure.

(Why am I compelled to bloviate on subjects I have little knowledge of? <T-T> Oh well, least I'm honest about it!)

superknijn
24-11-2007, 08:19
Things like blackadder and monty python tend not to be well known anywhere but england in general simply down to it being only really an english form of comedy that the rest of the world seems to fail to understand. (hence why the british are the best)..

You're forgetting the Netherlands. If there is one nation that loves British humour, it's ours. I mean, liking Monty Python has become a hallmark of the intellectually advanced.

ozzfan
24-11-2007, 10:24
You're forgetting the Netherlands. If there is one nation that loves British humour, it's ours. I mean, liking Monty Python has become a hallmark of the intellectually advanced.

Yes, you are our faithful kin. You play a lot of darts over there too don't you? I say this because when watching the darts competitions on the TV, there's always a dutch bloke.

Sojourner
24-11-2007, 10:34
On topic:

It's my understanding that many Japanese are fascinated with English in the context of the words themselves as pleasing symbology. Supposedly the simple curviforms look 'cool' compared to their rather complex script - much the same way as Kanji became a trend over here not long ago.

I've always believed the more advanced a society, the more its potential for weirdness - they've had more chance and space to develop such a diversity of bizarritude.

reds8n
24-11-2007, 10:39
Isn't Mr. Bean supposed to be huge over there ?

Probably a triumph of marketing more than anything else but at the uni where I work (which has a fair few japanese students) they only smoke Marlboro and they are staunchly split (about 60-40 %) over coke vs. pepsi, to the extent that many of them won't buy the other at all.

Neknoh
24-11-2007, 10:46
Actually, swedish cellphones (Sony Eriksson) are supposed to be rather large in China, adn generally, China and Sweden does have a history of industrial and economic interaction to a rather large extent, heck, there are several universities in China where you can learn Swedish and Sweden is appareantly on the list favourites when it comes to studies abroad.

Japan, I don't know

As for brittish humour (Black Adder, Black Books (or whatever that strange bookstores name is, and their likes), beats American sitcoms by miles and miles... however, things such as Scrubs, I rank right up there with them

DeathlessDraich
24-11-2007, 11:22
I know Japan is a far safer society, in terms of crime than Britain but I do worry about Japanese cartoons and Manga.
There seems to be inclinations of paedophilia here.
I'm sure many fans of manga have no such tendencies but why should so many characters look below 15??

@British humour. I love it naturally - well most of it. Black adder as opposed to Mr Bean. Have I got news for you, Yes Prime Minister, Only fools and horses - superb.

I don't think some forms of dry British humour would go down well overseas - Peter Cook and Dudley Moore - excellent but only here in Britain.

Only fools and horses has a universal humour and has versions in several languages including Japanese. Yes Prime Minister was a hit in Malaysia I believe.

American Humour - there are good ones too - Barney Miller, WKRP and more recently Everybody loves Raymond, South Park (inspired by Terry Gilliam of Monty Python!) and Simpsons.

Aaron
24-11-2007, 12:57
I've never been to Japan, but I've spent some time in Korea. The big Western imports are:

- Sport. Football (soccer) is massively popular over there and there's adverts starring David Beckham all over the place. Baseball and Basketball are popular too.
- Music and films. Korea has a pretty impressive film and music industry of its own but they still import a lot of western material. I saw Rocky Balboa and bought the latest Bloc Party album when I was over there.
- Crappy TV. I was shocked to see so many bad UK daytime TV shows on over there. They seem to love all of the home and fashion make-over shows.
- Starcraft. I thought the stories of Korea's love affair with Star Craft must have been exaggerated before I went over but they're not. There's at least 2 TV channels dedicated to the game over there and everyone plays it. I was over there in Korean office and everyone played it for an hour after lunch - even the manager!

Microsoft were also pimping out the Xbox 360 a lot when I was over there. They seemed pretty desperate for it to be a success though. The games were cheaper than Nintendo DS games!

Damien 1427
24-11-2007, 15:38
I'm sure many fans of manga have no such tendencies but why should so many characters look below 15??

Could be because the National Age of Consent in Japan is just 13.

If I recall correctly (I could very well be wrong) that there wasn't one until a decade or two ago.

Kjell
24-11-2007, 17:06
Could be because the National Age of Consent in Japan is just 13.

A quick Google search reveals that the national age of consent is indeed thirteen but that prefecture law sometimes overrides federal law and thus the age of consent can be up to eighteen in some places.

As for why comic characters look so young, well, Japan has a thing for cuteness/innocence and this is amplified by the typical style commonly used in comics, etc. I guess it's cultural or something. Geek culture, anyway...

El Presedente
24-11-2007, 18:10
As for why comic characters look so young, well, Japan has a thing for cuteness/innocence and this is amplified by the typical style commonly used in comics, etc. I guess it's cultural or something. Geek culture, anyway...

You can say thats odd, but look at comic book characters, and characters in general in the west, especially females.

Not that this is a bad thing, having stock characters makes one's that move against the grain even more special.

mistformsquirrel
24-11-2007, 18:19
You can say thats odd, but look at comic book characters, and characters in general in the west, especially females.

Not that this is a bad thing, having stock characters makes one's that move against the grain even more special.

Bingo.

Manga characters trend "Young" because Japan has a thing for "Cute" - so when you're making a character who's not meant to have much depth - its simple to just make them another kid. The same of course is reversed in the western comics - if you need a character without much depth its going to be either A) Curvacious woman or B) one of 2 types of guys - huge muscle dude or shrimpy wimpy guy. You also almost never see children in western comics unless thats the "shtick" for that particular comic. If I recall, even the original Teen Titans were mostly 18-19+.

The whole pedo-thing is... odd; but Japan for whatever reason manages to keep its... err... more bizarre predilections rather under control. *shrug* It apparently works; but I'll be damned if I know how.

I'm sure we've got plenty of weirdnesses that look just as strange to them.

I mean heck - most westerners love cheese ya know (I certainly do!)? Its not Japan, but there are plenty of cultures around the world who look at cheese as nothing more than spoiled milk! Its just kinda funny how much perception plays into things.

max the dog
26-11-2007, 03:16
I've never been to Japan but for a few months my satellite TV network was feeding 3 channels of Japanese TV and I've got a few opinions.
1- They're cultural sponges even if they don't actually get it. I've heard of a new fashion trend where women dress up in a slutty little bo peep costume as a protest against cultural norms.
2- They're expectations of comedy are much different than ours. People getting it in the nuts is apparently high comedy over there.
3- According to them our western culture is odd and occasionally "exotic". Big breasted women drive them nuts and the Jerry Springer show is where it's at.

Arnizipal
26-11-2007, 10:21
I've heard of a new fashion trend where women dress up in a slutty little bo peep costume as a protest against cultural norms.
You mean Gothic Lolitas? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Lolita)

ScouserInExile
26-11-2007, 12:32
Something that not a lot of people seem to realise is that they are, as a society, quite backward when it comes to the acceptance of other races and cultures. The Japanese believe they are "better" than other races - which goes a long way to explain (but not excuse) their actions in Korea and China in the first half of the 20th century. It is still exceptionally difficult for imegrants to get decent jobs, as most Japanese believe they are only good for the "3 K's", I don't know the actual Japanese, but they translate to be "dirty", "dangerous" and "difficult", pretty much the way America was, pre- civil rights and the way the UK was during the "No dogs, no blacks, no Irish" era. Brazilians (who are one of the largest imegrant groups) are treated especially badly, as the popular image of them is that they are all criminals because, as with the examples from the US and UK I've just mentioned, they are not given the same rights and opportunities as Japanese people are, which is creating a poor, uneducated underclass.

This attitude means that, when Japanese immitate other cultures, it's done from afar, rather than the "metling pot" multiculturalism of the West - which is what produces the more extreme results. Since the influences are taken out of context, it is normally one small aspect of the culture they are immitating that they focus on.

TheBigBadWolf
26-11-2007, 13:09
They seem to lap foriegn stuff up, its got to be the fact that they were very insular people and didnt have anything to do with the outside world. They were still using swords up untill the portugese came and showed them that the rest of the world had been shooting each other with rifles for ages. I think its the fact that they havent made any major inventions of their own they seem to take something that has been done and build on it. All the things they are acredited to be good at but havent invented themseves.
TVs
Video Games
Cars
Computers
etc.
They love to see what everyone else is doing and adapt it.

TheLionReturns
26-11-2007, 15:02
Something that not a lot of people seem to realise is that they are, as a society, quite backward when it comes to the acceptance of other races and cultures.


I must say I used to work for a Japanese company and this is something I did not experience at all. I was treated with a great deal of respect and given responsibility and autonomy I would never have got in a British company. Indeed they were very curious and very interested to learn about British culture from me. In particular they were fascinated by British etiquette.



The Japanese believe they are "better" than other races - which goes a long way to explain (but not excuse) their actions in Korea and China in the first half of the 20th century.

One thing I did pick up on is that they are quite elitist. For example my company would only recruit from Oxford and Cambridge despite my suggestions they could get similar standard applicants from other universities.

I believe that they are one of the more curious societies with regards other cultures. However, they are very picky looking to adopt what they perceive as only the best parts of other cultures. This can often be mistaken for xenophobia, but the emphasis is more on protecting and enhancing Japanese culture than on outright rejecting other cultures.

One thing I will say is that Japan today is very very different to the Japan of the first half of the 20th century.

Regarding films I can confirm the Last Samurai was a very big hit, even though the Japanese parts sounded like they were spoken by a child apparently. Fight Club wasn't very popular for some reason, which surprised me as I thought it was a great film and the type that might be popular there.

Stahlgeist
26-11-2007, 16:28
You mean Gothic Lolitas? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Lolita)

It's very interesting to me that even when they are "rebelling", it's in a highly structured context. Happens here as well I guess though.

There's an influence of the American Western movies on Japanese filmmakers like Kurasawa. It's interesting to note that the Western influenced Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, which in turn became a Western (along with several others).

The idea of a solitary hero (like my fave, Zatoichi the blind swordsman*) is a very Western (in both senses of the word) concept.

*who in turn influenced "Daredevil" and the TV version of "The Hulk"

VanHel
26-11-2007, 20:24
I don't know about Japan, but supposedly there's a life sized statue of Optimus Prime somewhere in China. Apparently he was adopted as a hero of the Peoples Party in the 80's.

scratchbuilt
26-11-2007, 20:47
Monty Python is actually quiet popular.

Black Adder is not totally unknown.

Generally though Japans appetite for American stuff is similar to Englands. They prefer their own tv generally, but simpsons, friends, Dharma and Gregg etc is also on. J watch a lot of tv.

I think western comics are too expensive. J read a lot too, often buying books from second hand book stores.

J movies are pretty dead now, it's mostly American movies - but v late.

I don't get J jokes.

Spaghetti in sandwiches. Bread that resembles cake. Engrish.

(Theres lots of good stuff about Japan but these are some funny western stuff. I found it easier to get along join sports clubs there than here. Less judgemental etc.)

Sailor moon type stuff is less sick than Jordan and so on.

El Presedente
27-11-2007, 09:21
Sailor moon type stuff is less sick than Jordan and so on.

QFT

And I never use that abriviation.

max the dog
27-11-2007, 21:12
You mean Gothic Lolitas? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Lolita)

Yes, just like that. But what I saw looked even more creepy and extreme.

Crazy Harborc
28-11-2007, 01:15
Bo Peep from Japan? Why not, it's a trend, a fashion statement. I would prefer lace and leather.:angel:

I have lived long enough to notice when a "new fashion trend" comes around for the 2nd or even third time. Women's skirt lengths, bare legs versus nylons or pantyhose.

Oh the good old days of sheer blouses.......on women.

max the dog
28-11-2007, 07:15
You had me at lace and leather

Stahlgeist
28-11-2007, 22:48
Gentlemen, I give you Omi Gibson.

http://images.cosplay.com/gallery.php?member=34693&cat=500

Merry Christmas to you both!

El Presedente
28-11-2007, 22:52
I hate the term cosplay, my parents called it fancy dress, I call it fancy dress, it should stay fancy dress.

Kjell
29-11-2007, 09:55
I hate the term cosplay, my parents called it fancy dress, I call it fancy dress, it should stay fancy dress.

Last time I checked "cosplay" was Japanese slang for "costume play" and referred to dressing up as videogame/comic/cartoon characters, not just any kind of dressing up.

El Presedente
29-11-2007, 10:37
Last time I checked "cosplay" was Japanese slang for "costume play" and referred to dressing up as videogame/comic/cartoon characters, not just any kind of dressing up.

Yeah I guessed that it was as much, but people seem to throw the term around all over the place for any form of fancy dress these days.

"You did not cosplay as a Knight, you dressed up as a Knight for a fancy dress party, theres a difference"

dodgethis
29-11-2007, 11:53
Since when was John Woo Japanese? Hell, his name doesn't even begin to suggest that.

El Presedente
29-11-2007, 11:58
Since when was John Woo Japanese? Hell, his name doesn't even begin to suggest that.

Oops pardon me, my bad