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Milamber
24-11-2007, 10:23
I'm just trying to remember the rules. This question is in a couple of parts. Importantly, please provide references for your answers too.

1) If I was to include a DoW character such as a Dark Emissary or Truthsayer into my TK army, can he join undead units?

2) If so, the character himself will obviously not benefit from any incantations you cast on the unit, but can you still target the unit? (Healing won't effect the DE, but will it still summon skellies in his unit? Obviously if the Incantation of Urgency was cast, the unit would leave him behind as they moved off, but then it becomes strange if they want to charge.)


Here's what I've found:

- Pg79 BRB, characters who aren't unbreakable can't join units that are.
- Pg78 BRB, Immune to Psychology (ITP): If a character that isn't ITP joins a unit that is, he becomes ITP also.
- Tomb King Army book, as per each unit's entry undead aren't actually unbreakable, it just says they can never be broken. I guess they don't include 'unbreakable', because undead crumble so it's different.

Remember, please provided references to your answers, it's no good for me to tell the other club members 'Some guy on the forum said so.' Thanks in advance for your help!

Neknoh
24-11-2007, 10:38
DoW characters cannot join non-DoW units as far as I remember

EvC
24-11-2007, 13:10
It doesn't specifically say it in the rules, but generally it should be avoided, as per previous edition design intentions. You could always hire a DoW unit as his bodyguard...

ZomboCom
24-11-2007, 14:01
Never ever mix break test types in a unit.

It's not intended that living characters can join undead units and vice versa.

vampires are cool!
24-11-2007, 14:27
It doesn't specifically say it in the rules, but generally it should be avoided, as per previous edition design intentions. You could always hire a DoW unit as his bodyguard...

Like the Cursed Company...

Milamber
24-11-2007, 18:52
Never ever mix break test types in a unit.

That makes sense. So, not wanting to use up another rare choice in my army for a bodyguard, if these rules are current it would seem that some options of a special choice RoR are available to me. Is that correct? http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/dogsofwar/gaming/armylist/assets/regimentsofrenownPart2.pdf
What about a living army then, say Dark Elves? Could a Dark Emissary join a warrior unit, etc?

@Neknoh: Someone said this on another forum too... I can't find any rule that supports this. I don't even think Dark Emissaries and Truthsayers are DoW characters as such, certainly not like Borgio the Besieger, etc.


EDIT: you can actually mix break test types: see stubborn, pg 78 BRB. I know what you mean though and it wouldn't work with undead, just proving a point...

Arnizipal
25-11-2007, 00:30
EDIT: you can actually mix break test types: see stubborn, pg 78 BRB. I know what you mean though and it wouldn't work with undead, just proving a point...
Unbreakable units (like Undead) are an exception to this.
Non-Unbreakable characters cannot join Unbreakable troops (See rulebook page 79).

Flypaper
25-11-2007, 02:28
1) If I was to include a DoW character such as a Dark Emissary or Truthsayer into my TK army, can he join undead units?
Nope. Can't join unbreakable units, as per Arnizipal's post.

If so, the character himself will obviously not benefit from any incantations you cast on the unit, but can you still target the unit? (Healing won't effect the DE, but will it still summon skellies in his unit? Obviously if the Incantation of Urgency was cast, the unit would leave him behind as they moved off, but then it becomes strange if they want to charge.)
Can't target him if he's alone. Smiting, Summoning and Urgency all specifically state that you can only target undead units with those Incantations:

...target one of your own undead units...

Atrahasis
25-11-2007, 15:25
Undead are not Unbreakable. They have their own rules.

Arnizipal
25-11-2007, 17:58
Which include being Unbreakable and Immune to Psychology.

Atrahasis
25-11-2007, 18:25
Which include being Unbreakable and Immune to Psychology.

No. The word "Unbreakable" does not appear at all in the laws of undeath. They have their own combat resolution rules which do not include "Unbreakable".

Festus
25-11-2007, 18:53
My VC book does not have *unbreakable* - although it includes ItP...

brambleten
25-11-2007, 20:36
DoW characters cannot join non-DoW units as far as I remember

if Gotrek dies, Felix, as far as i am aware, is allwoed to join a unit not of DoW origin

Milamber
27-11-2007, 19:12
Nope. Can't join unbreakable units, as per Arnizipal's post.

Can't target him if he's alone. Smiting, Summoning and Urgency all specifically state that you can only target undead units with those Incantations:


Gosh, did you even read my post? In my first post I made the point that nowhere in the BRB or TK army book does it claim that undead are unbreakable. I have given references. My point was this... could bend the rules because there is nothing banning non-undead characers joining undead units? The mixing break tests rule sells it for me though.

Secondly, again read my post before writing your answer please. I said 'can you still target the unit (he's with)...' Also, with the TK incantations you can either target the unit or the character, not both, so in this case I think it would work.

Arnizipal
27-11-2007, 19:39
No. The word "Unbreakable" does not appear at all in the laws of undeath. They have their own combat resolution rules which do not include "Unbreakable".


My VC book does not have *unbreakable* - although it includes ItP...
Ah, my bad. I just reread the section in the VC armybook.

Heh... They cannot be broken so they're unbreakable yet they're not Unbreakable.

memitchell747
08-12-2007, 19:40
Not long after the VC book came out, there was an interview with Allissio Calvatore on the GW websight. He said the reason he made Necromancers Undead is that he did not want to bother with mixing live and undead in the same unit. That is probably good guidance. Because Undead are basically unbreakable, I'd go with the rules in the BRB.

And, yes, the Albion characters (actually, they are DoW RoR) can othewise join non-DoW units. There is no prohibition against this in the rules. DoW characters inthe army list (i.e. General, Paymaster, Captain) cannot be hired, which is what confuses people.