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Qualdinesh
24-11-2007, 23:19
Hi everyone,

I looked around for another thread that may have this but I didn't find one. With Eldrad out of the picture for now, who now leads Ulthwe? Anyone know?

If this was already answered can anyone direct me to the thread please.

Nazguire
24-11-2007, 23:25
Hi everyone,

I looked around for another thread that may have this but I didn't find one. With Eldrad out of the picture for now, who now leads Ulthwe? Anyone know?

If this was already answered can anyone direct me to the thread please.


Didn't Eldrad choose a successor?

Probably him/her. At least, they'd be the most influential of their Seer Council at the very least.

Qualdinesh
25-11-2007, 01:19
Thanks for the responce. I'm not sure I have been looking the web and haven't found a name or anything so far. All I have found was he left behind his soul stones. It wouldn't be Taldeer from Dawn of War would it?

Inquisitor Engel
25-11-2007, 02:42
I doubt it'd be Taldeer - Auric is the only other NAMED Farseer from Ulthwe to the best of my knowledge and he hangs out in the head of a Rogue Trader last I checked... (Oh... to have a sequel...)

Qualdinesh
25-11-2007, 04:04
This is what I found on him. Does it sound accurate?

"Auric Stormcloud - Auric is a Farseer of the line of Manan of the Craftworld Ulthwe. He is on a personal quest to thwart the daemon prince Shaha Gaathon’s attempts to possess rogue trader Janus Darke. Auric also travels with Darke to the dead Eldar world of Belial IV to retrieve the Deathsword – an ancient and potent weapon, said to be an echo of the sword of Khaela Mensha Khaine with the ability to destroy daemons utterly.
Of all the eldar of Ulthwe, only Auric’s relative Athenys accompanies him. The other Farseers do not approve of his mission, and a few even go so far as to try to stop him.
"

Inquisitor Engel
25-11-2007, 04:55
Auric is slain on Belial IV but earlier in the novel had put a Soul-stone in Janus Darke's head under the auspices of it protecting Janus from daemonic posession.

Belial IV was a Crone World and thus had some fun and awesome old Eldar tech, but Athenys and Auric were after the one sword. It's been a while since I read it though. I do remember references to "Soul Engines."

IIRC when Auric's own soul-stone was destroyed by the Daemon, his soul moved to the one in Janus' head, taking control of the body. They did recover the old Eldar weapon, which is supposedly capable of actually killing daemons for good, rather than simply banishing them, if I remember correctly.

Kandarin
25-11-2007, 06:25
What little we have on Eldrad's chosen successor is that he/she was much younger than Eldrad, and apparently was a somewhat controversial choice.

Qualdinesh
25-11-2007, 07:12
Thanks so much you guys rock!

Bregalad
25-11-2007, 08:46
In the weird C.S.Goto novel "Warrior Coven" (the one where he slaughters the last Shining Spear), Eldrad is followed by a female Farseer who is collaborating with Slaanesh daemons as every second farseer in Goto novels.:rolleyes:

Taldeer is from another craftworld and Auric obviously a (dead?) loner not leading Ulthwé.

So: Nothing officially known AFAIK. But timelines are often stationary, with Eldrad leading Ulthwé nevertheless (and he is not really really dead).

Idaan
25-11-2007, 09:15
Oh the joys of Warhammer 40000 background. We know who's the temporary leader of the 7th Company of the Angels of Obscurity chapter and we know that he uses his lightning claws to clean his teeth but we know nothing about the leader of the one of the one of the biggest Craftworlds. Ah:rolleyes:

Canon Farseers of Ulthwe are:
Faeruithir
Bilgaedrin
Illandra
(from DM cards)
Aluhrial Juriane
Korhes'lie Turca
Illisq Thruandil
-from Seer Council Datasheet. So we know that they were members of it during Ulthran's "presidency". Still their names sound like they were made by randomly hitting vowels. I don't like them.

And Taldeer is of course from Ulthwe but she was mutiliated and crippled by Blood Ravens and CS Goto, so I think she's out.

Here followed a long rant about how GW treats their Eldar players and how they'd make a Marine Librarian, or better a Slaanesh Sorcerer Eldrad's successor because of this "controversy" tidbit. But I deleted it as I don't want to spoil myself this day.;)

Kage2020
25-11-2007, 14:54
I cannot remember the name of the chappie at the moment, but don't forget the Farseer mentioned in Watson's novel, Harlequin.

Personally I don't see why Ulthwe needs a singular leader, but that they might have one is a given. :D

Kage

Tanith Ghost
25-11-2007, 15:12
There was a name given in Eldrad's codex entry of one of his students. Is it possible she is said successor?

Griffty
25-11-2007, 18:03
There was a name given in Eldrad's codex entry of one of his students. Is it possible she is said successor?

Its given as Q'sandria in the 4th ed codex, but doesn't say s/he succeedes him, only that s/he is Eldrads youngest protege and s/he alone believes he will win his struggle against the blackstone.

Quentin
25-11-2007, 19:59
Not exactly an Eldar fluff buff, but Ulthwe, I believe, would be directed by the Seer Council of the Craftworld surely, in the event of Ulthran's death until another takes his place by election or appointment?

Griffty
25-11-2007, 20:14
I'm not sure that thinking of Eldrad having 'led' Ulthwe is the right concept, the seer council is probably the closest thing to a government they have (as we would understand it) and Eldrad guides whenever he beleives he has valid input. Just cos he's THE daddy of farseers doesn't mean he's right all the time.

I reckon that even the seer council dont have absolute rule over Ulthwe, there are all the masters of the paths we know little about who presumably would have input on domestic issues, especially bonesingers and the paths linked to lileath

Kage2020
25-11-2007, 20:50
Actually, Griffty, many fans advocate a more... developed approach to Craftworld Eldar government. The vanilla interpretation seems to broadly, or perhaps inextricably, linked to the Theme of the given craftworld (which are themselves exceptions to the norm, if you are to believe WD127).


Its given as Q'sandria in the 4th ed codex...
Oh dear. Cassandra and all that it implies. :eyebrows:

Kage

Griffty
26-11-2007, 03:23
Afraid I havent had the pleasure of reading WD127, could you expand abit on what you mean by a "more...developed approach"

The Q'sandria/cassandra comparison is interesting as it implies a departure from the 'ulthwe knows all' story line - although it may just be a name in an insignificant bit of fluff. With the 40k timeline frozen it's unlikely that Q'sandria will be developed further

Vaulkhar
26-11-2007, 03:38
The theory is that each Craftworld is governed according to its own culture and preference. Thus on Ulthwe, the Seer Council calls the shots. On Biel-Tan, it's the Court of the Young King that makes the final decisions. Saim-Hann splits its leadership amongst the Wild Rider Chieftains, etc, etc...

That said, most sensible people pay attention when a Farseer starts talking, regardless of Craftworld.

On the subject of Taldeer, she's established as Ulthwe in Dark Crusade...but 6 of the 7 possible endings have her dying on Kronus...

Qualdinesh
26-11-2007, 04:59
Thats a great point Vaulkhar thanks for bringing it up, and in truth I guess that the Taldeer character doesn't mean much because of that fact hehe oh well. :)

Terror of the East
26-11-2007, 08:09
in the WD that explains what happend to many of the major characters that took part in the Eye Of Terror wars im sure it explains who Eldrad left as his successor. cannot rember the WD number as i am at work..;) however it was published at the end of the campagin was over.

Idaan
26-11-2007, 14:07
ELDRAD ULTHRAN

The Farseer Eldrad Ulthran, most gifted Eldar prophet found that the twisting forests of possibilities through which he walked at will were denied to him, blinding his exceptional scrying abilities. His one certainty was that darkness stood ready to engulf him ana possibly even his homeworld. At the formation of the Ulthwe Strike Forces Eldrad divided many parts of his consciousness into shimmering waystones and. after many weeks of guiding his troops through the webway. he was exhausted and spent when he was last seen by the Eldar of Ulthwe. He appointed a controversial member of the Seer Council as his successor before departing with his Warlock bodyguard on a desperate last quest, to rescue the soul of one of the legendary Talismans of VauI before it turned the surface of Cadia into a boiling, incandescent sea.
Nope, nothing here.

If there was a name given to that successor, we'd know it. The 'net catches and magnifies all these obscure references.



Now that Q'sandria bit seems fascinating. The bit about nobody believing her is there, so maybe she is also gifted with truesight and Eldrad will one day return? But Cassandra saw only omens of ill fate, so maybe there's something more?

ryng_sting
26-11-2007, 17:35
Eldrad's successor has not been named; the only thing known about his successor is that he/she is a controversial choice, and that Eldrad appointed him/her before heading off to try and save the Talisman of Vaul.

His youngest protege, Q'Sandria, thinks that one day he'll defy the Talisman's corrupted heart and return to Ulthwe.

The Cassandra reference is lost on me. Can someone clarify?

Idaan
26-11-2007, 19:57
Q'Sandria=>Qsandria=>C(u)sandria=>Cassandra. Both names sound alike, just say it aloud a few times. Didn't notice that earlier too.

Another Ulthwe Farseer is Maechu who predicted the awakening of C'tan in the Necron Codex, but I don't think he's controversial in any way.

The most annoying part is that we'll probably never get to know the name, let alone the personality of the successor. I could be wrong though.

Kandarin
26-11-2007, 20:49
Eldrad's successor has not been named; the only thing known about his successor is that he/she is a controversial choice, and that Eldrad appointed him/her before heading off to try and save the Talisman of Vaul.

His youngest protege, Q'Sandria, thinks that one day he'll defy the Talisman's corrupted heart and return to Ulthwe.

The Cassandra reference is lost on me. Can someone clarify?

In Greek myth, a woman named Cassandra was gifted with the power of prophecy by Zeus (I think). She didn't like that and asked that it be revoked, but gods weren't known for listening to mortals, so a caveat was added: She would still make prophecies, but nobody would ever believe her. So throughout many legends, Cassandra would make crazy-sounding predictions, then get ignored - even as they all came true. She eventually died in a murder that nobody but her saw coming.

Kage2020
26-11-2007, 22:22
Afraid I havent had the pleasure of reading WD127, could you expand abit on what you mean by a "more...developed approach"
Well, the comments about WD127 and the "more developed" bit are not directly related. WD127 refers to the premise that Craftworld Eldar society is more alike than not, which makes the current craftworlds the exceptions to the rule. (Though now the exception has become the rule, seemingly.)

And the more developed comment? If you surf around for a while you'll find that numerous fans have tried to tackle the concept of the Eldar a bit more rigorously - or at least in more depth - than GW.

Of course, whether you actually like that greater depth is, of course, dependent on the individual.

:D

Kage

HorgothTheGreat
27-11-2007, 00:53
Wait, what happened to Eldrad?

Quentin
27-11-2007, 02:06
Wait, what happened to Eldrad?

He's canonically died. :(

Griffty
27-11-2007, 17:10
The cassandra story is one that runs through much of the Iliad and Odyssey.
Her gift was given by Apollo and was the gift of presience rather than prophecy, as an attmept to woo her. She refused his advances and so he then cursed her, so that no one would ever believe her.
One of the most common translations of her name is 'she who entangles men' or sometimes 'she who confounds men'.
She forseaw the sacking of Troy along with the Trojan Horse, but guess what - no one believed her.
The other interesting thing about her are the versions of her story which depict her as driven mad by her gift or by her subsequent incarceration.
In relation to Q'sandria, who will most likely not be developed as a character, she could be a bonkers true seer who meets a tragic end. Most likely though is it is just a clever bit of naming by Phil Kelly to give eldrad a potential return.

elvinltl
28-11-2007, 13:08
Eldrad led Ulthwe SeerCouncil? I always though the SeerCouncil is like some democratic paliment hearing where Farseers congregate to share their visions of the future... It so happens most of the Farseer trust Eldrad judgement and decision.

Inquisitor Engel
28-11-2007, 15:20
If the Seer Council is a Parliament, Eldrad was Prime Minister, Minister of Defense, Agriculture, Medicine and Chancellor of the Exchequer (why not?) as well.

I think Eldrad might simply have been so good that he was an exception to how things are normally ran.

BrotherAdso
28-11-2007, 15:45
...except the Seer Council is probably nothing like a parliament. Parliament is probably the least dignified governmental body I've ever laid eyes on. Insulting the hygiene of other representatives is very, very un-Eldar.

I have the image of the Seer Council of Ulwethe moving by consensus and argumentation, like the Supreme Court. Eldrad was like a very, very influential Chief Justice. He wasn't in charge of life in the craftworld, but he led the 'policy panel' that decided the larger things. Only at the end did he take to leading forces on the field, making the last minute adjustments on the personal level to ensure his mysterious plan would be set into motion.

I can really see the idea of Q'Sandria. Since no one can live up to the legacy of Eldrad, perhaps his 'successor' bears a stigma. Other, older farseers question Eldrad's sanity in choosing her, and seize power for themselves, never once listening to her prophecies and exiling her from the Craftworld. Gosh, she would make a cool special character...Q'Sandria, wandering Spiritseer Prophetess.

-Adso

-Adso

Kage2020
29-11-2007, 02:46
The obvious Minbari Babylon 5 reference might also appeal to some...

Kage

BrotherAdso
29-11-2007, 03:34
Ah, yes. I'm less familiar with that piece of the sci-fi cheeze canon than I should be. Praytell what it the parallel? I know the Minbari are psychic, ancient, dedicated to defeating some evil or another, and just as godawful rigid and stuck up as the Eldar, but what specific thing in B5 does Q'Sandria reference?

-Adso

Kage2020
29-11-2007, 04:25
I didn't mention the Cassandra reference, BrotherAdso. It was merely a reference to the idea that you can have multiple "councils" and a singular individual who is 'head,' even if it is truly one of influence.

Kage

SV_Harlequin
29-11-2007, 04:41
The Minabri thing is fairly obvious given they share a lot in common with Eldar in Tech, Race, Ideas and Ideals. But their caste system is more restrictive than the Eldar's but does have some similarities.

The Council leads Ulthwe, not 1 Farseer. For a race like the Eldar having something akin to a Democarcy would make the most sense, Voting on things but with maybe the Head of the Council having overuling veteos.



Oh and the Farseer from the book Farseer isn't Dead nor is he in the head or the stone on the head of Darke. Darke is the one trapped in the stone.
The Farseer is in his body, he pushed Darke into the stone and took control of Darke's Body at the last moment and is now roaming around in it.

Iracundus
29-11-2007, 11:38
That can't be a permanent state of affairs. I don't see other Eldar accepting anything he says while he's stuck in the body of a human.

The situation however does show that within the 40K universe there is some element of Cartesian mind body duality, if an Eldar personality can effectively take over a human body.

Griffty
29-11-2007, 18:57
Theres a fair bit of Cartesian duality throughout 40k, the material / warp existence of many races and spirit stones are the quickest examples I can come up with.

The typcial fluff explantion re the government of Ulthwe would be that we as humans cannot grasp the methods of the seer council - blah blah easy way out...
I see the council as a fluid body, members partake as and when they are able/around, and due to the amount of seers on Ulthwe they're certain to have enough available at any one time for quorum. Ulthwe probably puts its trust entirely in the hands of the seers and does not question a decison made by the council.
Would you question an agreement made by a group of psychic pre-cognitives with a superioity complex?

Drasriath
30-11-2007, 10:41
Hi everyone,

I looked around for another thread that may have this but I didn't find one. With Eldrad out of the picture for now, who now leads Ulthwe? Anyone know?

If this was already answered can anyone direct me to the thread please.

Bad question to ask. By the time you get a straight answer it will have changed. Any character that isn't a Space Marine tends to have a pretty short lifespan. Eldar worst of all.

FrankManic
04-12-2007, 06:19
So, in short, blame the beakies?

Zhai Morenn
04-12-2007, 07:37
Funny thing is that while craftworld Eldar have horrible attrition rates on their heroes, it seems like since GW loves to let the bad guys escape and the Dark Eldar haven't really lost anyone major, unless you believe that Warrior Coven book C.S. Gotto wrote (I personally despised it)- and even then there is no guarantee that Lilith perished. It's one of the reasons I decided the path of the Dark Eldar was my gaming choice, it's b/c our heroes don't get knocked off by GW- though I suspect this is as much do to overall neglect on GW's part as any intentional design.

FarseerMatt
04-12-2007, 09:15
Like Alarique Swiftblade perhaps? Or Farseer Taldeer? Of course that latter is only if you believe C S Goto, and it appears that GW doesn't either because in Dark Crusade Taldeer escapes Lorn V and is alive and well dishing it out to the Necrons.

And given the fact that Eldar are the default race when you start up the single-player campaign, I think she wins as well...

thearchiver
04-12-2007, 10:17
Why not use the words of the seer himself
"Craftworld Ulthwe has no formal leader as such, more a... council I suppose you could call it" Eldrad addressing Fulgrim