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holymarine
25-11-2007, 12:19
Just a quick question but was the Golden throne built before the emperors battle with horus or was it made after?

The_Patriot
25-11-2007, 12:32
Just a quick question but was the Golden throne built before the emperors battle with horus or was it made after?

It was built after Ullenor which was 200 years before Horus fought him.

Gorbad Ironclaw
25-11-2007, 12:38
I thought it was build after the battle, under instructions by the Emperor.

The_Patriot
25-11-2007, 12:43
I thought it was build after the battle, under instructions by the Emperor.

Nope, current fluff from Horus Heresy: Collected Visions definitely places the throne's existence long before the Emperor's battle with Horus. Malcador sat on it while the Emperor fought Horus and died because of it.

Kage2020
25-11-2007, 14:58
Even before the Collected Visions the fans questioned whether it was narratively more interesting for the Golden Throne to have existed pre-incarceration as a solution to the conundrum of the Astronomican. The compromise between the additions is that the purported life support functions were added after his mortal wounding at the hands of Horus. (And, as an ad hoc addition it has all but failed.)

This raises whole new issues about the material, but then again it did in the discussion back... erm, about six years ago? That is, what is the nature of the Emperor-Golden Throne relationship, what is the source of "Soul Binding" and what are the implications to the Emperor, are there any connections to the Star Child, yada-yada.

Kage

holymarine
25-11-2007, 16:58
Alright cheers. I think i did see on the Horus Heresy article on Wikipedia something about Malcador. It also said in one version he was a marine and in another he was a guardsman

Killgore
25-11-2007, 18:30
mabey the throne got upgraded to sustain the emperors life?

Brother Siccarius
25-11-2007, 18:50
Even before the Collected Visions the fans questioned whether it was narratively more interesting for the Golden Throne to have existed pre-incarceration as a solution to the conundrum of the Astronomican. The compromise between the additions is that the purported life support functions were added after his mortal wounding at the hands of Horus. (And, as an ad hoc addition it has all but failed.)

This raises whole new issues about the material, but then again it did in the discussion back... erm, about six years ago? That is, what is the nature of the Emperor-Golden Throne relationship, what is the source of "Soul Binding" and what are the implications to the Emperor, are there any connections to the Star Child, yada-yada.

Kage

It's interesting to note that even though the Golden Throne was built before the Heresy, the Emperor didn't strap himself into it until Magnus's portal shattering message to the Emperor about the coming Heresy. As the version of the Astronomicon is mentioned in the HH books before that happened it's safe to assume that the Astronomicon doesn't in fact need the Golden Throne. It mentions the main "Psykic Choir" on Terra and other "Psykic Choirs" on the ships of the fleet used to navigate the warp.


mabey the throne got upgraded to sustain the emperors life?

Another interesting prospect.

*Fluff Theory Time*

The Throne needed a living force on the throne to hold the portal in Terra closed. This would seem to suggest directly that the Emperor is in fact alive, likely even coherent as he'd have to utilize some force of will to stop himself from just being drained like Malcador.

Similarly, in a "spiritualistic metaphor" kind of way, it is possible that the souls of heros "Stand beside the Emperor after death" as his use of psyker force would be drawn from the warp, which is itself the concentrated force of departed souls. Consequently, this means that the Emperor also has a direct link to the warp from his seat on Terra, meaning that it's possible (through the bends and twists in the warp) that he could in some ways add his will to the material realm, though not likely in any massive effort of will but instead through little, one shot things, like resurrecting a dead person, drawing a departed soul back to the material, or giving access to the warp to someone he deems likely to use it well. All these things are relatively minor (except the later) when considering the scale that most top level psykers powers will manifest in (destroying entire populations or controlling them for instance).

Slaaneshi Slave
25-11-2007, 19:00
It is also interesting to note that there was a backup Golden Throne constructed on the planet Neva, which was subsiquently destroyed by the Battle Sisters of The Order of Our Matryred Lady in the Black Library book Faith and Fire.

Griffty
25-11-2007, 19:10
@ Slaneeshi Slave, haven't read that, what time frame was that? Presumably after the age of apostasy so the nuns existed as SOB.

I havent read much BL fluff, where/what is the webway portal under the golden throne all about?

I'm sure I've seen the theory regarding the throne being upgraded around for a while, Ive always thought it was cannon...

Slaaneshi Slave
25-11-2007, 19:14
I can't find any exact dates, but it says the 41st millennium on the back cover, so its pretty recent (as 40k goes).

The_Patriot
25-11-2007, 22:49
Alright cheers. I think i did see on the Horus Heresy article on Wikipedia something about Malcador. It also said in one version he was a marine and in another he was a guardsman

Malcador was neither a marine or a guardsman. He was a psyker and main administrative guy for the Emperor. He also was the Emperor's closest friend.

Kage2020
26-11-2007, 00:01
As the version of the Astronomicon is mentioned in the HH books before that happened it's safe to assume that the Astronomicon doesn't in fact need the Golden Throne.
The obvious latitude to that statement is the fact that you're talking about one Astronomican post-Incarceration, and many pre-Incarceration. That makes it a more complex situation of interacting systems rather than just the "mono signal" that you have in the "modern" 40k universe.

So, conspiracy theories about the Golden Throne are back in, as well as the other questions that were raised in my previous post. :D

Kage

The_Patriot
26-11-2007, 00:31
The obvious latitude to that statement is the fact that you're talking about one Astronomican post-Incarceration, and many pre-Incarceration. That makes it a more complex situation of interacting systems rather than just the "mono signal" that you have in the "modern" 40k universe.

So, conspiracy theories about the Golden Throne are back in, as well as the other questions that were raised in my previous post. :D

Kage

Well in HH:CV on page 322 shows the Emperor on the Golden Throne and he's keeping the web gate closed as well as running the Astronomicon. On page 190 it talks about the conversation between Malcador and the Emperor concerning tying unbound psykers to the Astronomicon and the Emperor agrees to it. One thing you find out is where the Throne is located at. It's down in the labs under the palace.

Kage2020
26-11-2007, 01:09
<sigh> That just reminds me that maybe the Collected Visions isn't something that I really want to spend my money on...

Kage

The_Patriot
26-11-2007, 01:48
<sigh> That just reminds me that maybe the Collected Visions isn't something that I really want to spend my money on...

Kage

Why's that Kage? I ask because you're a fluff nut and I mean that in a good way. :D

Daemon_hunter
26-11-2007, 02:00
I'm not sure if this is the story still in use but it's the one I'm familiar with. The golden throne came about, supposedly, after the Emperor retreated to Terra and had something to do with his research into the webway. After the fight between Horus and the Emperor the Emperor instructed Rogal Dorn on how to complete the throne so it may sustain his life and told him to inter him into it.

RexTalon
26-11-2007, 07:43
It is also interesting to note that there was a backup Golden Throne constructed on the planet Neva, which was subsiquently destroyed by the Battle Sisters of The Order of Our Matryred Lady in the Black Library book Faith and Fire.

It was described as a golden chair that requires a willing psychic sacrifice to provide power. The person who wanted to use it thought it would give him ultimate power. It was fabled to be created by the Emperor, but there was never any proof provided that it was, and it was never referred to as a "Golden Throne". It's operation was similar to what happened at the end of F.E.A.R., if you've ever played that.

elusiveintrovert
26-11-2007, 09:42
It was fabled to be created by the Emperor, but there was never any proof provided that it was, and it was never referred to as a "Golden Throne". It's operation was similar to what happened at the end of F.E.A.R., if you've ever played that.

I can't say that I am familiar with F.E.A.R., would you care to elaborate on that?

Slaaneshi Slave
26-11-2007, 10:48
Please don't, I'm currently half way through that game. :p

But the implication was that it was a backup Golden Throne. It feeds on psychic energy, and boosts the psychic potential of the person entombed within exponentially (so much so that a null was able to sit in it, and he gained the power to destroy planets with it).

RexTalon
26-11-2007, 19:08
I can't say that I am familiar with F.E.A.R., would you care to elaborate on that?
I'll PM it to you.

RexTalon
26-11-2007, 19:16
Please don't, I'm currently half way through that game. :p

But the implication was that it was a backup Golden Throne. It feeds on psychic energy, and boosts the psychic potential of the person entombed within exponentially (so much so that a null was able to sit in it, and he gained the power to destroy planets with it).

Sure, in the way that it feeds off of psychers and that it boosts the potential of another, they are the same. However, the one in the book has big concentric rings, and AFAIK, there isn't anything like that on the Golden Throne.

DelvenMelven
27-11-2007, 09:11
Thats actually a good question, im inclined to say that it was built before because the Emperor is supposedly gifted with "farsight" (predicting the future) also Sanguinis(i think thats how you spell it) could definitely see into the future.
If the throne was built after the Emperor was wounded by Horus he would be dead.

Curufew
27-11-2007, 12:50
I got one noob question. How does the Inquisition view the Emperor? As a god or as a very great man?

Daemon_hunter
27-11-2007, 12:54
As a god, Thats why they are "the emperors most holy Inquisition" it's prety much only the marrines who don't view him as a god

Slaaneshi Slave
27-11-2007, 13:41
Most Marines do view him as a God, its mostly the first founding chapters (and specific few others) who don't.

RexTalon
27-11-2007, 19:57
...the Emperor is supposedly gifted with "farsight"...
Then he should have seen it coming. ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
27-11-2007, 20:13
In common fantasy there are two themes linked with seeing into the future.

1) Not being able to see further than your death.
2) Not being able to see further than something you don't understand.

And he is all but dead, only managing to put it off with the Throne, and he didn't understand why Horus rebelled. So two reasons why he might not have seen it coming. ;)

Chaplain Dionitas
27-11-2007, 20:42
Most Marines do view him as a God, its mostly the first founding chapters (and specific few others) who don't.

Took the words right out my mouth. There are still some chapters that don't see him as a god. Also IMHO, The chapters have evolved/devolved to the point where the chaplains roles are more spiritual and librarians are accepted (Except the Black Templars).

DapperAnarchist
27-11-2007, 22:09
Then he should have seen it coming. ;)

In 2nd and 3rd Ed. background, that was one of the mysteries of the Heresy - that the Emperor's rather imprssive precog abilities, that had guided him through 35000 years of existence, suddenly stopped working. Presumably, the Changer Of Ways messed things up.

Also, as for what Inquisitors think - there's about a million Inquisitors (my guess, without much fluff, but it sounds right - about as many as there are space marines [a thousand chapters, a thousand marines a chapter]), and in that million you go from monk-like devotion (:angel:) to utter heresy (:skull:).

Slaaneshi Slave
27-11-2007, 22:11
I think there are much less than a million Inquisitors, as the Marines in the Eisenhorn books are in awe of him (he is also in awe of them, too).

DapperAnarchist
27-11-2007, 22:16
I'd accept less - maybe 100 thousand - but less than that and they become increasingly inconsequential - there has to be enough of them for them to be proactive, while Smurfs are a response force more usually - rapid response, but still.

Slaaneshi Slave
28-11-2007, 07:03
Oh, I agree, but one per world is much too many. I would accept one for every 10 or 20 worlds though.

Captain Stern
28-11-2007, 07:28
Slaaneshi Slave: I think there are much less than a million Inquisitors, as the Marines in the Eisenhorn books are in awe of him (he is also in awe of them, too).

Wasn't their 'awe' of him down to him killing a chaos space marine (Mandragor I think it was?) singlehanded? Of course, if he'd told them the details I think they'd have been less impressed. I think that saying they were in awe of him is a bit of a stretch though. Respect mixed with a little fear is more accurate I think. I thought the Grey Knight captain being too intimidated to come and see him was a nice touch too. Very amusing.

Oh yeh, you're all aware that before Sabertooth and the Heresy novels the Golden Throne was built after The Emperor's duel with Horus and that it was built with the single purpose of keeping the Emperor alive (like that isn't enough)? I can't believe no one else has mentioned this...