PDA

View Full Version : Chaos Newbie Needing Advice



Turanos
25-11-2007, 16:52
I've very recently been shown the wonders of Fantasy (having started out a few months ago as a 40k player) and I'm having a little trouble making an effective army with Hordes of Chaos.

Firstly, here is what I currently own:

1 x Foot Champion
16 x Marauders
12 x Warriors
5 x Knights

------------------------------------

I've put together a 1000pts list for each Chaos God, as follows:

Khorne

Heroes

1 x Exalted Champion of Chaos
- Mark of Khorne
- Juggernaut of Khorne
- Enchanted Shield
- Gaze of the Gods

Core

5 x Knights of Chaos
- Mark of Khorne
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer

12 x Warriors of Chaos
- Mark of Khorne
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer
- Musician
- Shields

16 x Marauders of Chaos
- Chieftain
- Standard Bearer
- Light Armour
- Shields


Nurgle

Heroes

1 x Exalted Champion of Chaos
- Mark of Nurgle
- Daemonic Mount
- Enchanted Shield
- Sword of Battle

Core

5 x Knights of Chaos
- Mark of Nurgle
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer

12 x Warriors of Chaos
- Mark of Nurgle
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer
- Shields

16 x Marauders of Chaos
- Chieftain
- Standard Bearer
- Light Armour
- Shields


Slaanesh

Heroes

1 x Exalted Champion of Chaos
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Chaos Steed
- Enchanted Shield
- Sword of Battle

1 x Sorcerer of Chaos (to be bought - let me know if this is pointless)
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Level 2 Wizard
- Spell Familiar
- Dispell Scroll

Core

5 x Knights of Chaos
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer

12 x Warriors of Chaos
- Mark of Slaanesh
- Champion
- Standard Bearer
- Musician
- Shields

16 x Marauders of Chaos
- Chieftain
- Standard Bearer
- Light Armour
- Shields


Tzeentch

Heroes

1 x Exalted Champion of Chaos
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Daemonic Mount
- Enchanted Shield
- Sword of Battle
- Talisman of Protection

Core

5 x Knights of Chaos
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer
- Musician

12 x Warriors of Chaos
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Chosen
- Champion
- Standard Bearer
- Musician
- Shields

16 x Marauders of Chaos
- Chieftain
- Standard Bearer
- Light Armour
- Shields

------------------------------------

I have so far actually played with the Tzeentch and Nurgle lists, and in both cases I'm a little unhappy. It could very well just be the fact that I'm new to Chaos and new to Fantasy in general, but I've felt totally outmaneuvered every time I've played.

Are there problems with these lists, are some of them fixable with my current models? If not, how would you all recommend to expand my army?

One of the main things I wonder, being new to the game, is exactly how to set up my units. Should I put my Warriors in two ranks of six, rather than two of five with two in the back? Will the extra width actually help me in any way? I've been putting my Champion in with the Knights, since I have him mounted. Would it be better to just leave him on foot? If so, which unit would he be more useful in? Same question with the Sorcerer, if I get him.

Generally speaking I've been struggling simply to get my guys into combat with anything worthwhile, and I'm wondering how I can actually get into the fight and start cracking some heads.

Thanks for any and all advice.

Xzazzarai
25-11-2007, 17:17
To makre Warriors chosen is rarely a good thing to do. It's a waste of points.
Why you ask?
Well, it's not cuz they lack in fightingpower, that's for sure. But they have to much of it. They are meatgrinders and no one sane will send troops to fight them. And if they do, it'll be combined attacks with loads of CR for your opponent.
They are too slow to be able to chase the enemy down and can easily be avoided. If you don't make them chosen, they won't excell (as much) in CC and might there for not be avoided as much. And then they can start to chop things up.
Equpiment should ber alternated depending on what you are facing. A knight heavy bret army? Go for GW or halberds, for example. Against horde armies, a second hand weapon will come handy.
Ah, you get the picture. =)

ATM, I'm too tierd to comment anything else.
Good luck! =)

Grinloc
25-11-2007, 18:29
Yeah, those warriors...
When looking at their stat line they look like a dwarven elite unit on steroids.
The most devastating CC upgrade version would be chosen warriors of khorne. Opponents either lure them around (due to frenzy) or avoid them altogether. I know i did. WS5, Str4, T4, 2+AS, 3A...noone in their right mind would attempt to fight those.
I think being able to buff a unit to such heights is the wrong design approach, no matter how the fluff reads. A big point sink probably not seeing even one CC in the entire battle (against most armies)...

Don't make them chosen, don't give them the mark of khorne. Probably make them undivided. Then they'd be vastly cheaper and would actually see CC, while still being "tough as nails" compared to many other armored infantry units.
They might not vaporize opposing infantry anymore, but they'd be a very good "anvil"-unit.

Turanos
25-11-2007, 19:51
Given the advice I've gotten, I've updated the original post with a new Slaanesh list, with the Warriors no longer chosen, and upgrading the characters a bit.

Will this really make it more likely that they will get into combat, though?

Grinloc
25-11-2007, 21:09
Of course it will. Units like black orcs or pretty much any other infantry with heavy armor will consider fighting the warriors as an option, since they'd be pretty much on even ground.

There's a massive difference after all between "2A, 2+AS" and "1A, 3+AS". Unchosen/undivided chaos warriors are basically black orcs with +1WS. Noone is really afraid of black orcs.

W0lf
25-11-2007, 21:22
CBA to read all the lists...

but the fact you only have one wizard in the Tzeentch list explains why it dosnt work..

Flypaper
26-11-2007, 02:08
Are there problems with these lists, are some of them fixable with my current models? If not, how would you all recommend to expand my army?
Basically, I don't think it is fixable with your current models. You've got most of your points invested in a small mob of very small and very slow troops - so of course you're going to get outmanouvered.

In terms of expanding the list in ways that give you options, the best choices for you are:

- Chaos Warhounds are fast and cheap, giving you ways of messing with the other guy's advance early and redirecting his charges late. If the individual blisters are too expensive $$-wise, buy a box of Goblin Wolf Riders and run the wolves as warhounds (ten to a box, i.e. two units of five).
- Chaos Furies are fast and efficient fliers. A small group of them can work independently for a number of helpful functions.
- Chaos Chariots are very good at threatening long-range charges, which gives you a way of 'controlling' the space around your main army by threatening a counter-charge.
- If you're willing to add Beasts of Chaos to your army (as special choices), Tuskgor Chariots, Minotaurs and even Beast Herds are all fast and fairly hitty.
- Ideally, you should be running your warriors in blocks of ~15 and marauders somewhere between 20 and 25. That's takes extra cash and painting time, though.

Should I put my Warriors in two ranks of six, rather than two of five with two in the back?
Pick a job for them and stick to it, basically. If you want to get kills, they need to be packing two hand weapons - and in that case, 2x6 is probably the way to go. If you want them to take charges then hand weapon and shield is the optimum config, but you really need to at least complete that third rank (i.e. 15 models). And yeah, the number of models per box sucks when it comes to making good regiments. :mad:

I've been putting my Champion in with the Knights, since I have him mounted. Would it be better to just leave him on foot? If so, which unit would he be more useful in? Same question with the Sorcerer, if I get him.
It helps to have a definite plan for your characters. In the case of Chaos heroes, that plan is usually "get into combat as early as possible so you can kill more stuff" - so mounted is probably the best bet. Putting him in a chariot is also popular.

If you get a sorcerer then the mounted model is probably the best bet, but I wouldn't put him with the knights. Being alone on a horse gives him a great armour save and more mobility to cast from. If your opponents have a lot of mage hunters, you're allowed to put him in one of the infantry units even while mounted - this is quite a popular choice as it makes him pretty much unkillable unless the unit's broken and run down*.

Will this really make it more likely that they will get into combat, though?Not as such. The point to using more efficient configurations is that it usually means you can take more models or use the points for other toys elsewhere. :p

*or via the Rule of Burning Iron spell :eek:

Neknoh
26-11-2007, 04:58
Warriors, IMHO, should always be fielded in either two ranks of six or two ranks of seven, the third rank is just too expensive for my tastes, if you want the extra CR, then simply go for the Warbanner. Furthermore, amongst the things you have there, all that really needs adding to would be a second box of Marauders to give you either a unit of 20 and a unit of 10, or a unit of 25 Marauders to support the army with some much needed Combat Resolution.

I am currently off to school for now, but I'll come back and edit this thread later today


EDIT: Ok, just had a look at the lists, they look fine to me, the two main gripes would be that you leave your Nurgle Exalted unprotected and that you don't invest in a Warbanner for your Warriors or Knights.

My suggestion would be to drop the Chosen off of the Knights to free up some points, then, using said points, I would add four more Marauders (or five and then place the mounted Exalted in said unit, he'll boost it up to 5by5 in that case), a small unit of Warhounds to do some baiting, flanking, screening and generally being useful and then, ultimately, give a Warbanner to the (now) non-chosen Knights

Chris_Tzeentch
26-11-2007, 11:07
Manouverability and speed are critical components of any Chaos list IMO. Chaos does combat best, so they need to get there as quickly and as safely as possible. Chaos Warriors are too easily avoided or shot to bits.