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Lorquas
26-11-2007, 13:56
Hi

When Skirmishers rally do they have to reform? Are they free to move or fire on the turn they rally?

Thanks

Lorquas

Atrahasis
26-11-2007, 14:00
Skirmishers do not perform manueovres.

A consequence of this seems to be that they can move and fire when they rally.

I expect lots of people to disagree.

T10
26-11-2007, 15:33
I can't really see any point in arguing. When a unit rallies it mut perform the Reform maneuver.

As far as I can tell, since skirmishers move as individual models, they Reform in the same way as individual models as well. The models in the unit simply remain in place, though they may turn to face any direction. Huzzah.

There is no support in the rules for allowing the skirmishers to re-arrange their unit willy-nilly when they rally.

-T10

Atrahasis
26-11-2007, 15:45
Single models do not (cannot) reform, and neither do skirmishers.

ZomboCom
26-11-2007, 16:50
Skirmishers can reform, nothing stops them doing so, they just get no benefit from it.

It does stop them moving and shooting when rallying.

WLBjork
26-11-2007, 17:29
Depends.

From page 65:


The unit does not turn, wheel, etc. and each model is free to move in any direction without penalty.

This says to me that "etc." includes reforming.

Atrahasis
26-11-2007, 17:39
Not to mention that reforming arranges models into "as many ranks" as the player wishes, and skirmishers can't do that.

Lorquas
27-11-2007, 12:21
Hi

LOL and there's me thinking I had missed something obvious in the rules and that this was a straight forward question.

So when troops rally they have to reform. Skirmishes can't reform so what do/can they do?

What rules have other people used before? At the weekend I said they reform and can't fire but my opponent then produced the rules for reforming and Skirmishes and said it dones't say that...

Cheers

Lorquas

Atrahasis
27-11-2007, 16:14
Well, its a bigger grey area than even that.

Fast cavalry can technically move and fire after rallying no matter the cause of their flight, since they essentially ignore reforms and that is the only thing that stops a rallying unit from moving and shooting. However this is very unlikely to be the intent.

EvC
27-11-2007, 16:59
"The unit does not turn, wheel, etc. and each model is free to move in any direction without penalty."

I would say etc does not include reforming, since there are cases where another rules section says they have to, i.e. when they rally ;)

It could also be claimed, in a way that makes up stuff that isn't actually in the rules, that since fleeing troops have no strict formation, then they must reform to return to a true skirmish formation.

Oh well, end of the day, vague rules, unclear wording... that means I'll stick to "common sense" :)

DeathlessDraich
27-11-2007, 17:15
1) Skirmishers do have a formation. - defined as "loose *formation* with models not more than 1" apart".
Another type of 'formation' is the disorganised formation of fleeing troops.

2) Reform - "arrange the unit into a new formation" with a max. movement restriction and not moving the centre.

Therefore Skirmishers do and can reform.

However the Reform rules later concentrates on explaining reforming ranked up units. Whether this part explains Reforming in general or is only a specific type of reforming is unclear.

It is possible for a rules lawyer to declare that only ranked up units can Reform.:p but going down this route creates more problems than it solves.

Rally and Shoot:
This is indeed a loophole in 7th ed for Fast Cavalry.
In 6th ed, shooting was expressedly not permitted after rallying. The same statement has been replaced with "must reform".