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Mabbz101
27-11-2007, 01:06
what are they? i have a game against them on friday i will be taking my chaos beat/horde mix. ive never played brets before n would like to know a few of their weakneses so i can gear my army list to attack that weakness.

any help would be awsome

Imperial Dragon
27-11-2007, 01:41
flanking and outnumbreing them outnumbreing them is easy its staying there. anything with high Ld is good and use Spawn and if the knights dont smash it you should try and flank charge them

Hrogoff the Destructor
27-11-2007, 01:46
Take the stubborn undivided banner. Brettonian knights generally rely on breaking enemies on the charge, and aren't the best when combat lasts more than a round. If you're stubborn, it increases the chances of staying put against brutal units like Grail Knights, their most powerful squad.

Also, take the hero with a weapon that deals multiples wounds. Challenge the Brets, as they lose their ward if they refuse a challenge. The 1 +d6 wounds weapon killing a Brettonian knight in a challenge will give you massive over kill, and a ton of combat resolution. Do your best to place this hero in the way of the Grail Knights.

I also suggest taking khorne chosen warriors with an armor and shield. A 2+ save in close combat is very nice, especially with 3 attacks a piece. The hero listed prior would be good in this squad too.

Dragon Ogres and Chosen/Knights are nice too, assuming you have some. Dragon Ogres can take some serious punishment and will guarantee you can get some attacks back. They are str. 5, and wound on 2's. Take two weapons and they got 4 attacks a piece. Chosen Knights are good for obvious reasons.

Tzeentch sorcerors are nice too if you get the right spells, along with the other types of mages. Bret's dislike magic, even with their ward saves. Trying to get them to panic with magic works quite well.

Makarion
27-11-2007, 01:53
Many Bretonnian players field units that require quite a bit of room to maneuver, so using lots of terrain is generally beneficial. It gets even better if you have access to the Lore of Athel Loren or Lore of Life, of course, but as Chaos that's out of the question.

Don't bother with S3 shooting versus them (or most anyone, really), although war machines could be very nice, especially bolt throwers. Your opponent might field Yeomen or Pegasus Knights as war machine hunters, so keep that in mind.
As a Chaos player, I guess that the Hell Cannon is pretty much your only option, which definitely hurts, since it's an obvious target.

Quite a few Bretonnian armies seem light on magic defence, so if it doesn't disgust you too much, fielding 6+ levels of magic might be good. Depending on whether your general is Beast or Mortal, that might give you good offensive magic. I'd suggest Slaanesh, if you can make sure you get sufficient overkill in magic levels, since leading 2 units of knights by the nose per turn is quite a hoot (the first time, at least).


Good luck!

Count Sinister
27-11-2007, 01:54
Hroggof's right. Brets do not like magic at all, and I should know, I play Brets. He's also spot on about stubborn units. In general, we need to break a unit on the turn we charge, or else after that we lose lots of attacks (as we lose the advantages of the lance formation), and are almost always outnumbered. We don't field only knights, however, although peasants all have such a low Ld that fear-causing troops can cause them real problems. You should have a good game. Enjoy!

Hrogoff the Destructor
27-11-2007, 02:05
Ah yes, fear from Nurgle troops is good. Although a squad of Nurgle Warriors typically won't have enough models to count as outnumbering 9 knights, having them hit you on 6+'s if they charge is very nice. It won't affect Grail Knights or Knights Errant on the charge, but there is about a 50% chance a normal Knights of the Realm squad will fail it. Knights of the realm are typically a staple unit of all Brettonian armies, and one squad is required in all armies.

I know what's good at fighting them because I play both Chaos and Brets.

Kloud13
27-11-2007, 03:35
LORE OF METAL. Bretonian Generals just love it when their opponent has Lore of Metal. In fact, I'd challenge anybody to tell me there is a lore that can hurt Bretonians more than Lore of Metal. Read it over in your Rulebook, and Remember that most Bretonians have 2+ Armour Saves. You will grin from ear to ear.

Hrogoff the Destructor
27-11-2007, 03:50
Can Chaos use the lore of metal? I think they can use shadow, death, and something else.

I didn't bring my book with me here at college, so I can't look it up.

Kloud13
27-11-2007, 06:25
Fire is the third one they can use, sorry, I just looked it up myself.

Chiungalla
27-11-2007, 06:40
Sacrifice some dogs, to get the bretonnians where they don't want to be.
Put them one inch in front of there units, so that they can't move without charging.

Und place them well enough, that if they charge, and the dogs don't flee 15+ inches, there 16 inch movement, takes them somewhere, where you can flankcharge them with chaosknights.

The great fang is also a must have against bretonnia.

Jerrus
27-11-2007, 07:11
Helm of Many Eyes and Great Weapon in the front rank usually helps alot :)

sephiroth87
27-11-2007, 07:29
Agreed. Also, the big units have flanks that are possible to hit. Their knights can beat yours on the charge. If you can get some fast cavalry or fast units in his flank to tie up a unit and charge first, they have a hard time fighting their way out, due to having a 3 knight frontage and strength 3, especially if you can negate their ranks on a flank charge.

MarcoPollo
28-11-2007, 06:29
Chaos is my main army and I have never lost against Brets. Here's what I find works best.

1) Nasty pesky warhounds that do just what Chiungalla said. This usually stops their nasty lances.
2) While your cheap dogs are distracting their expensive lances. Get some heavy hitters on their flanks. Things like Dragon ogres, giants, minotaurs, chosen cav, strength 7 heros (or great fang).
3) Keep your fast cav in reserve, things like marauder horsemen and mounted demonettes will fall to the bow fire of even the crapy peasent bowmen.
4) Neutralize the Peg knights first. Protect your flanks with chariots/fast cav so that PK are not in a position to combo charge your flanks.
5) Don't get too worked up about magic, a few khorne units is all you need and you don't usually need a scroll caddy at all. Their magic is pretty weak and they have to spend points on characters that they don't need all the time (they must take a BSB).
6) They have alot of ways of killing characters. So make sure you have a champion in your units to take challenges from uber lords.

Neknoh
28-11-2007, 09:28
Go for Marco's suggestions, I would also ask you to consider the fact that the Greatfang is an excellent weapon to use against them, as is the Daemonsword on a Beastlord and the Berserker Sword on a Daemonic-mount Exalted (a flank-charge on a bret-unit will net him 3 extra attacks and pretty much make sure they don't kill him in return. If you can also cram in a unit of Marauder Horsemen or even Warhounds into the charge to break the ranks, even better)

druchii
29-11-2007, 17:36
what are they? i have a game against them on friday i will be taking my chaos beat/horde mix. ive never played brets before n would like to know a few of their weakneses so i can gear my army list to attack that weakness.

any help would be awsome

As a Bretonnian player, I can tell you, there are a few things that terrify me:

Characters with a high I, and high S. Namely an Asp. (or better) champ with a halberd on a horse (he's got an obscene number of attacks, hitting my muppets on 3s, wounding on 2s and striking before most anythin in the army).

Conversely, units with S5+. Things like dragon ogres, minotaurs, chosen knights, and even shaggoths. Those things are very freightening to me, as even if they charge me in the front, they'll be pumping out a very reasonable number of attacks, with a terribly high strength.

Cheap, disposable units: Hounds. Careful though, I'll shoot them with my bowmen, but if you have enough of them (like, four units) you can usually force some nasty redirets (or, if I refuse to charge them, get your knights/dragon ogres/minotaurs with great weapons in a spot to flank charge me.)

Don't waste your time on magic. I know, atleast with my competitive charge you in the face army I've got enough magic defence to weather the first two turns of magic before I charge the nasty spellcasters. If he's anything like me, and is devoted to basic magic defence, he'll be sporting 4 dice and anywhere between 2-4 dispell scrolls (remember the damsels add a particularly effective form of magic protection to their units).

Although I'm sure your game is far over by now, I hope the repeat of these few weaknesses helps them stick

d

Malorian
29-11-2007, 18:35
I second druchii, ut to add to it I also fear units that are faster than me. Going up against a flier or HE cav is not easy.

Zensunni
30-11-2007, 16:36
I have a question that is slightly off topic but maybe is not at all. If Bret player has a lance of 9 and the front is three calvary models going up against a 6 wide infantry unit, how many attacks does the infantry get against the lance?

I guess what I am trying to say is that does the unit being attacked by the Brets get all their attacks even if they are not in base to base with the front three models??

Mercules
30-11-2007, 16:58
I have a question that is slightly off topic but maybe is not at all. If Bret player has a lance of 9 and the front is three calvary models going up against a 6 wide infantry unit, how many attacks does the infantry get against the lance?

I guess what I am trying to say is that does the unit being attacked by the Brets get all their attacks even if they are not in base to base with the front three models??

3 Calvary will contact 4 normal bases no matter how much over this your frontage is, so only those 4 have a chance of striking them, unless he positions them poorly(overlapping a couple) in which case 5 would be in contact and could fight.

Kadrium
30-11-2007, 17:32
If he tends to field any knight units in non-lance formation (say 6 grails or something, or smaller kotr or errant units that he chooses not to lance), an exalted on a chariot with a berserker sword can do a lot of damage. It bases up with 8 US worth of cavalry for 4 extra attacks. Thats 11 total attacks after impacts for the chariot. Mark khorne and you're up to 13.

The best other advice is to use warhounds to charge bait or control the direction of his overrun movement so you can countercharge. If you get the knights off the charge, its just a matter of time. Without their lance formation and lance strength bonus from charging, all that brets are is an armor save over a crappy stat line.

Mercules
30-11-2007, 17:41
Without their lance formation and lance strength bonus from charging, all that brets are is an armor save over a crappy stat line.

And if you have a character with "No armor saves allowed." weapon they become a crappy stat line with a Ward Save.

Black Antelope
30-11-2007, 20:05
A level 4 and 2 level 2's with Lore of Metal (hee hee 2+ saves:evilgrin:).