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Lorquas
27-11-2007, 12:17
Hi

How high is higher ground? How high does higher ground have to be before you are out of reach and therefore can't attack your opponent?

If a cannon fires and the bounce covers troops on the ground and also on a hill are the troops on the Hill hit or does the cannon ball thud into the side of the hill?

Any thoughts and opinions on the above would be appreciated

Lorquas

DeathlessDraich
27-11-2007, 12:33
The nature of terrain, its LOS and movement difficulty is pre-determined before the battle through discussion between opponents - in the sub section for terrain in the rule book.

The cannonball *bounce* is stopped by a cliff face and hence the sides of a hill - cannon rules.

If the cannonball initially lands on flat ground, then it will not bounce onto units on a hill.
If it initially hits the top of a hill it could then bounce onto units on flat ground.

Lorquas
27-11-2007, 13:15
The rulebook suggests that the only thing that stops a cannon ball is impassable terrain. What if the troops are just on a small hill which is only a couple of inches higher than the main board!??! The rules suggest that these would be hit.

Do people have any house rule suggestions for a height when it is impossible to attack an opponent? Double the height of the attacking model?

T10
27-11-2007, 13:43
Here's a tip: If the hillside is so steep it counts as impassable terrain then it provides a sufficient obstacle to prevent the two units from making contact with each other.

Otherwise, if the charging unit can reach the target then they can fight.

-T10

Fate
28-11-2007, 01:09
On the cannon ball issue, it goes up hills!

The rules says it won't go up sheer cliffs (impassable terrain) but one thing is a sheer cliff, another is up hill. This is cause in warhammer hills are usually very small elevations on the terrain and thus it's not that hard for it to roll up.

RB Quote:
If the cannonball bounces into impassible terrain that in reality would stand in the way of the shot, such as a sheer cliff (as opposed to a lake), it stops immediately, but other than this, nothing can stop a cannonball!

If still any doubts, refer to page 87 of the rule book.

T10
28-11-2007, 08:56
"Small" elevations might not be the right description at our table. We assume hills to block line of sight to large targets on the ground.

kroq'gar
28-11-2007, 09:10
ditto, we use hills as something only large targets can see over. I always assumed cannons could be fired elevate dor lowered. Elevated is when it lands on higher ground, lower lower. It can then only hit things on a same vertical path (or the giant standing behind the hill?).

Guyver OmegaX
28-11-2007, 09:17
I tend to find that common sense is enough when working with hills, in terms of cannonballs, combat, etc. Remember that the way hills are modelled on a battlefield for games like Warhammer isn't an especially realistic one; they're modified to be used with wargames. I personally never see real hills that are stepped like the ones I fight over :)

If you were to imagine an actual hill with a unit on, they would be on a slope - the attacking unit would also be on that slope, a bit lower down. There will not be a distinct drop, as people often encounter with modelled hills which feature plateaus for placing models on. Hence the models will clearly be able to engage eachother in close combat, although one unit will have a distinct advantage (being on higher ground).

The same logic can be applied to cannonball bounces; the ball won't stop bouncing mid-air because it has a slope beneath it. I personally like to measure bounces on a flat level rather than level with the ground it's moving over (this way a ball will bounce a slightly shorter distance up a hill, as it hits the ground sooner!).

Of course, cliffs and potentially steep hills are a different matter.

Festus
28-11-2007, 10:54
Hills are open ground and as such do not stop cannon balls. Cliffs are difficult, very difficult or even impassable and as such able to stop cannonballs...

Festus

Fate
28-11-2007, 11:34
Alas Festus made my point. Hills simply do not stop a cannonball no matter what although a hill in warhammer is usually no more than a slope. Also here we count it as blocking LOS for everything but large targets. Still the cannonball won't stop bouncing just because of an elevation unless that elevation is a sheer cliff or something that in reality would stop it. Also the cannonball bounce is a little missinterpretated, the cannonball don't hits the ground and jumps, it hits the ground and goes rolling (kinda like bowling) so a hill does not stop it from contnuing rolling, it would slow it down a bit, granted and if you measure on a flat level you can simulate it easly enough, but still, it won't stop that easly.

DeathlessDraich
28-11-2007, 13:06
1) It is not a question of whether the terrain is difficult or impassable. The rules for cannonballs asks that players use their own judgement based on "reality".

2) The nature of terrain has to be discussed and mutually accepted. Players have the choice of making hills stop cannonballs if they want to.
If players agree that woods or X inches of wood or even a fence could stop a cannonball, then that conforms with the rules because it could happen in reality.

3) The notion that a cannonball that initially hits flat ground, cannot then hit units on a hill, is Gav Thorpe's interpretation which he documented under 6th ed rules.

Festus
28-11-2007, 16:59
1) It is not a question of whether the terrain is difficult or impassable. The rules for cannonballs asks that players use their own judgement based on "reality". Misquote 1.
The rules do not say anything of this sort: They just say that impassable terrain, which would stop the cannonball in reality, is the only thing to stop it.
Nothing else.


2) The nature of terrain has to be discussed and mutually accepted. Players have the choice of making hills stop cannonballs if they want to.
If players agree that woods or X inches of wood or even a fence could stop a cannonball, then that conforms with the rules because it could happen in reality.Misquote 2:
As above, only impassable terrain may stop a cannonball as of the rules. Players are always free to invemt house rules, though.

3) The notion that a cannonball that initially hits flat ground, cannot then hit units on a hill, is Gav Thorpe's interpretation which he documented under 6th ed rules.
Yes, and he also said/wrote that stonethrowers do not need LofSight, but Mortars do :cries:

Festus

Fate
29-11-2007, 11:06
Those rules about the cannonball never bouncing up a hill in 6th ed i had never seen it and never used (me or any other player that has cannons in their army that i know of), however in 7th ed it's how it goes and also the clarifications wrote by GW are somewhat dubious as they say many wrong things and often they say contraditory things.

In the end it's always, stick to the rule book till there is an official errata.

Crazy Harborc
30-11-2007, 00:03
My regular opponents all want hills to stop the bouncing balls/stones. From time to time, I give it the ol' try to change their minds. They push armies that can have cannons sooooo they're stopped by their wishs too.