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Hand of Dume
27-11-2007, 16:46
Now with the new Chaos codex out, a fellow gamer was wondering how his Relictors would select Chaos icons and Daemon weapons? Any insight on this would be fantastic. :confused:

Grazzy
27-11-2007, 16:48
In a WD they gave rules for relictors. However, they wer for 3rd ed. If i was you i would just let him pay the appropriate cost from the chaos codex to give his HQ's the weapons.

The Song of Spears
27-11-2007, 17:08
Or you could follow GWs recent statements of all old chaos codex related lists, armies and units are now deprecated, and no longer valid.

for example this is:
deamonettes on steeds, LatD and other such old chaos dex related stuff. all this stuff went the way of the dodo just like craftworld eldar codex.

I am sure there are plenty more reasons to play 40k than old wargear options. Just have him make a current chaos army and give a chaos lord a deamon weapon, you do have 5 to choose from...

feelnopain666
27-11-2007, 17:16
It's one more sad thing. My brother was in the way of making a Relictor army to support is Radical daemonhunters. Now with the "Codex: loyalists with spikes" all the things that make the army different and cool were gone. Since we still play with 3rd edition Chaos, there's no reason why you shouldn't do it too!

szlachcic
27-11-2007, 17:23
Or you could follow GWs recent statements of all old chaos codex related lists, armies and units are now deprecated, and no longer valid.

for example this is:
deamonettes on steeds, LatD and other such old chaos dex related stuff. all this stuff went the way of the dodo just like craftworld eldar codex.

I am sure there are plenty more reasons to play 40k than old wargear options. Just have him make a current chaos army and give a chaos lord a deamon weapon, you do have 5 to choose from...

Why should he not make the army using points from the new chaos book as Grazzy suggested. I don't see why you shouldn't build something just because it isn't legal in a tournament.

I wouldn't have much of a problem playing against such a list and I doubt many others would as long as everything is modeled correctly. Actually, it sounds like a pretty fun army to me.

The Song of Spears
27-11-2007, 17:48
Hey as far as you and your friends go, go for whatever you like.

My opinion is that certain changes were made in the codex's on purpose. And one of them was the over powered wargear. All i read in the OP post was that he missed the weapons, well IMO that's not a good enough reason to play a old army. The effectiveness of the new chaos dex is just fine, you can 'counts as' most if not all of the relictors options.

But if you want to use some other edition of the games books, then more power to ya.

I play a lot of pickup games, so tournament rules are the baseline for what you bring just so that we all know what to expect. If someone showed up with 3rd ed IW that might ruffle some feathers, or maybe a 3rd ed deamon bomb army, or a siren slaanesh prince... These are just a few examples of not-so-fun surprises when you let people use old codex armies.

Hand of Dume
27-11-2007, 18:42
I'm assuming that GW is still considering them a viable list because it's an approved list for the Adepticon next April in Chicago. My friend wasn't complaining about missing the wargear, but simply how does the new Chaos codex translate to his Relictors' list and their special rules concerning Chaos wargear. He wants to possibly take then to the Adepticon tournement.

muppet515
27-11-2007, 19:02
If it was for a pick up game I'd be happy playing if he payed for and used the generic deamon weapon from the new chaos codex. IIRC the WD rules for the Relictors had some items but could include one of the old deamon weapons aswell, right? So he can still use them and one deamon weapon.
Obviously in any tournament setting check first and if going for a pick up game take 2 lists.
Just my 2p

Cry of the Wind
27-11-2007, 19:42
I'd ask the Adepticon Tournament organizers how they plan on handling it. As it stands anything you do will be either using an out of date book or making up a new rule for using the current one. The organizers will know which way you should be going.

Rahveel
27-11-2007, 19:46
doesn't the WD article with the Relictors in it give the stats of the daemon weapons?

StefDa
27-11-2007, 19:52
Well... I'd suggest paying the points cost of the Icons from the regular squads of Chaos Space Marines (vanilla Marines), and paying 40 pts for Daemon Weapons (like Lords in power armour).

Hand of Dume
27-11-2007, 20:40
By making the list playable for the Adepticon tournement, they would have to see this question coming and should have a solution. I'm sure there is a contact on the Adepticon site and will post the question to them. Upon hearing a response, I will post it on Warseer so other Relictor players will know how to take the Chaos wargear. Thanks for the responses and insight.

Snipafist
27-11-2007, 20:49
Why not just play a Chaos force anyways and call them Relictors? They're excommunicated anyways, so they're not too far from being a chaos chapter as it is.

Cry of the Wind
27-11-2007, 20:52
doesn't the WD article with the Relictors in it give the stats of the daemon weapons?

Nope it gives you a list of weapons (e.g. the Dark Blade) and the marks from the old Chaos codex. You had no rules and needed the Chaos Codex to use the wargear. This is where the problem lies as there are no rules for say the Dark Blade anymore.

Edit: @ Snipafist, a good reason for not using the new book is that maybe his army has units like Land Speeders in it. As for using counts as to represent the daemon gear well that is fine and all to, but the organizers said that Relictors were allowed which begs the question of how.

AdmiralDick
27-11-2007, 21:05
i guess at a pinch you could use the Dark Angels list. that might be more inkeeping with their background than the new Choas book. granted it doesn't have daemon weapons, but does it have any unique weapons in it?

or as stated before, just forget the whole 'official' thing. there's nothing wrong with making an army just for the heck of it, use the old 'dex. with the new Codex: Chaos i've been so put off collecting an official army that i've just taken to buying whatever miniatures i want for it. regardless of whether they have actual rules or not. maybe i'll invent rules for them at some point, or maybe they'll just wait until GW does.

The Song of Spears
28-11-2007, 16:56
I'm assuming that GW is still considering them a viable list because it's an approved list for the Adepticon next April in Chicago. My friend wasn't complaining about missing the wargear, but simply how does the new Chaos codex translate to his Relictors' list and their special rules concerning Chaos wargear. He wants to possibly take then to the Adepticon tournement.

Adepticon is not GW. They make up their own rules, scenarios and rulings.

And they have fully admitted last time to having misprints on the armies allowed list, so you had better check, as last year the relictors were legal, and with a new chaos dex out, they may not have updated their allowed army lists.

I am willing to bet they are not legal this upcoming year. But as others have said, best bet is to ask the tourney advisers.

Either way i still don't understand the need to use the old relictors rules. Between the space marines, chaos marines and dark angels/blood angels codexes, i am sure there is something your friend can use to make most all the models in his army playable. Were there even any major rules changes for them other than the deamon weapons they got?

ArtificerArmour
30-11-2007, 11:34
You could take two lists, one from the chaos codex and one from the old relictor IA article, just in case

fdesrochers
30-11-2007, 11:56
I am currently finishing off a Relictors army using Codex: CSM. I just took the fluff and made them teeter over the edge to excommunication. Personally I find the list to work nicely. A 'Librarian' leads a pair of squads of 'Space Marines' with a slew of 'servitors' throughout (excommunicated Chapters don't have access to their worlds for recruiting), a Dread, Land Raider and 'Oblits'. All models are converted.

Current List

Librarian (winged-Sorceror) w/ wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Change, personal icon

Space Marines x 10 w/ flamer, lascannon, Icon of Glory
Space Marines x 10 w/ flamer, lascannon, Icon of Glory
Gun Servitors (Thousand Sons) x 10, led by 'Codicier' w/ Doombolt, personal icon)
Close Combat Servitors (Lesser Daemons - teleports into combat)

'Assault Marines' (Raptors) x 6 w/ meltas x 2
'Daemon Hosts' (Chaos Spawn) x 2

'Heavy Combat Servitors' (Oblits) x 2
Dread w/ lascannons, heavy flamer
Land Raider w/ possession

;francois

Takitron
01-12-2007, 02:16
I am sure the answer is "use the old codex" like GW did in Baltimore for the LotD player.

AmKhaibitu
01-12-2007, 07:04
Nope it gives you a list of weapons (e.g. the Dark Blade) and the marks from the old Chaos codex. You had no rules and needed the Chaos Codex to use the wargear. This is where the problem lies as there are no rules for say the Dark Blade anymore.


That's odd, because there was a 2nd listing of equipment other than those random items containing specific items complete with their mechanics.
One example being the Arketus scourge.

These rules are still fairly valid.

The problem is, do we still use the old mastery rules or not, logic dictates yes as these won't work with the d6 weapon archetype.

Of course I'd be happy sending my inquisitor into a pack of demons wielding a weapon that does d6 attacks with +d3 on the charge that wounds demons on a 2+. But I think it's much more fair if he uses his base attacks and risks Perils (Acolytes are useful sometimes.)

The best codex is still Codex: Space Marines for them.