View Full Version : Standards, Champions and casualty removal

Master Incarias
27-11-2007, 23:06
So, there's a depleted unit of Orc Boyz (six of 'em) placed rather unfortunately in front of an Organ Gun. There's both a Champion (or whetever they're called) and a standard bearer in the unit. Five wounds are scored. Five models die.
Which model remains? Is there a coice in the matter? Can he choose to keep the Champion, in the hopes of bashing my Organ Gun crew next turn?

Just for the record, I let him, and he failed (the Engineer stood and shot him).

27-11-2007, 23:16
The champion would be the one remaining, as they cannot be hit by missile fire unless either there are less than 5 rank and file or if more casualties are caused than there are other rank and file models in the unit.

27-11-2007, 23:31
The champion is treated as a character when the unit is hit by ranged attacks, BRB p. 81. In this case, the champion is not even hit, even if the organ gun had scored more wounds(?)

Hm. This seems... odd. Does he then count as both a character that cannot be hit - and a rank and file model that counts towards the needed minimum of five models? In other words; do you need five models apart from the champion for characters and champions to get the protection? It says "rank-and-file models (i.e. non-characters)" but the rules for the champion says that he is counted as a character when the unit is subjected to ranged attacks.

27-11-2007, 23:43
The champion will still die to satisfy unit casualties as he is "after all a rank and file model".

He just won't die to shooting unless the whole unit is wiped out or there are only 4 other guys in the unit.

And yes, this does mean that a character in a unit of 5 including champion does not get LOS!, and shooting that uses BS must be allocated.

28-11-2007, 00:13
Well, yes, but then again he is supposed to be treated as a character when the unit is shot at. So, logically, either he can be hit, or he cannot die from that shooting. It can't be possible to not be hit (as per the rules for characters) but then die anyway. I'll add that I have never played this way, and probably never will. It just seems like the rules have worked themselves into a little circle. There is a missing sentence somewhere, is my guess.

28-11-2007, 00:18
the rules can do whatever they like, and they say (to paraphrase) he is a character for allocating HITS, and a rank and file for allocating WOUNDS.

28-11-2007, 09:26
It's good to see you agree with my point of view Artemis but since this rule has been discussed once too often I won't add anymore to this debate.

28-11-2007, 12:42
Atrahasis is right on this one. The champion counts like a character for purposes of determining wheter he gets hit by the shot or not, however, being him originally a model which is part of the unit (he can't even leave the unit), he is electable to take wounds in the case you take enough to kill all models. if you only take 5 wounds as you made your example, he can chose to keep his champion or another model if he wishes (personaly i'd keep the banner since it's better to have 1 CR guarantied that one extra attack that may or may not kill one enemy).