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Vsurma
28-11-2007, 00:00
How about using a "super" unit with Lizardmen

I was thinking 13 Saurus warriors with spears running 7 wide with a Scar Vet in the unit with great weapon with the Gleaming pendant of chotec.

Would mean 19 S4 attacks and 4 S7 attacks attacking first even when charged! granted its only for 1 round of Combat but that should give you quite an edge.

Throw in the sacred spawning of Sotek and you would be getting 13 MORE S4 attacks. So 32 S4 attacks!!! and 5 S7 on the charge!!!

Madness I say.

Anyone ever tried it?

The Saurus would cost 224 with a banner with the sacred spawning and the Scar vet with basic gear would cost 136 with enchanted shield for a 2+ save or 151 for a 1+ save.

Screen them with a unit of Skinks and you will most likely get the unit into CC without taking much damage.

Enemy can destroy the skinks and run into them, you use the pendent to strike first and make the enemy hopefully run, next turn you get the charge and take out another unit! (well ideally it would go like this)

360pts for a unit is not insane esp considering what this unit can do!
Starts with 1 rank the banner so you have a static CR of 2 and the rest come from kills...

I suppose you could also try it with a unit of 4*5 or something similar, this way you could even have full ranks and maybe outnumber but it seems far to expensive to pay so much for those few points.

What you think?

Weapon-X
28-11-2007, 00:05
I believe you can only use the pendant in the lizardmen turn. It's too bad because it would become quite a valuable item otherwise.

Xzazzarai
28-11-2007, 00:33
7 wide unit of Chosen Warriors of Khorne with 2 hand weapons? 24 Str 4 attacks + 1 exalted champion of khorne with great weapon and helm of many eyes - that's 5 str 7 attacks well.

Vsurma
28-11-2007, 00:45
Ah crap your right... Well it did seem too good to be true for less than 50pts

Vsurma
28-11-2007, 00:49
But actaully it doesnt matter!

Since the enemy has to get through that skink screen first! that means they will be fighting the skinks on their turn and the saurus on the Lizardman turn!

So it still works. :)

Weapon-X
28-11-2007, 00:53
yes it works but makes it all the more expensive since you have to factor the skink screen into the cost of this strategy working. Far too expensive for this benefit in my opinion.

English 2000
28-11-2007, 05:45
I like it - I'm going to suggest it to my regular lizardman opponent. Just watch out for fear causing units - keep the general in range of those Skinks.

Latro
28-11-2007, 08:25
Small detail:

The Skink screen also prevents the Ultra-Super-Saurus unit of Doom (!!!) from charging anything ... so you end up with a Skink unit that can shoot with a very expensive Ultra-Super-Saurus unit of Doom (!!!) to make sure it doesn't get charged.


:cool:

(PS Never expect your enemy to act the way you want them to.)

Guyver OmegaX
28-11-2007, 08:39
Also, the spawning of Sotek couldn't give you 13 more attacks; IIRC it's an extra attack when the model/unit charges, which means only your front rank (6 Saurus, plus Scar-Vet if you give him the spawning) would ever get the bonus.

As a general rule I would avoid Saurus with spears, but that's another matter entirely.

EndlessBug
28-11-2007, 09:22
yea, I use this tactic often, then with my kroxigor sitting on the flank for that sure fire break.

But yea, spawning of sotek wont work in this situation as they aren't charging, aside from that I find Sotek one of the least useful spawnings for Saurus Warriors.



7 wide unit of Chosen Warriors of Khorne with 2 hand weapons? 24 Str 4 attacks + 1 exalted champion of khorne with great weapon and helm of many eyes - that's 5 Str 7 attacks well.

this unit costs about 500 points? The Saurus equivalent costs about 380 points? Thats 2 units of skinks, or 10 more saurus :D

Generally I stick to my hand weapon and shield option, that 4+ save and T 4 is incredibly survivable. 2 STR 4 attacks each is good enough anyway. Give em Quetzl as well and you're laghing with a 3+ save.

Vsurma
28-11-2007, 10:14
Hmm well its true that the strategy only works IF you are charged, though I myself like to play with a slann mage and if I have CC units I like to go for the lore of shadow as there is the movement spell in there which could also be used to get you into CC, not reliable though.

Though if the unit has kroxigors on either said it works better as they actually can assault through the skinks.

Fear shouldn't matter as whether your skinks are hitting on 6s or 4s makes little difference.

Terror might make them run ofcourse.

Yes it seems I sort of forgot how spears work... got caught up with all those elven and dogs of war long spears that attack in multiple ranks even when charging...

Hmm ok, so basically the spears only give you an extra 7 attacks if your running hte 2*7 formation.

But assuming things do go as planned and the enemy does run through your skinks into your unit, its still 19 S4 attacks and your 4 S7 attacks... You get 7 more S4 attacks for about 26 points when using spears, not too bad I dont think...

Especially since this combat will be happening on your turn so you can use magic to boost it. Atleast portant of far will help alot!

Vsurma
28-11-2007, 10:38
Perhaps a unit of 3 kroxigors with the scar vet inside would be better then?

This way you could actually assualt through the skinks and you have superior movement...

Though withe the pendent costing so much you cannot fit the jaguar pants in so your actaully reduced to moving at the speed of the scar vet...

Still if you are charged you get to strike first... or if you use that unseen lurker spell from the lore of shadow...

Still seems a waste to reduce the movement speed of the unit though...

Would it be against the rules for the scar vet to charge the same unit the kroxigors intend to charge while still leaving unit?

What if say the enemy is 10" away, the scar vet could try to charge and fail, thus moving only 4" while the kroxigors now moving at their own speed again would be able to make the charge.

Latro
28-11-2007, 11:11
Though withe the pendent costing so much you cannot fit the jaguar pants in so your actaully reduced to moving at the speed of the scar vet...


Slap him on a Cold One and your problem is solved.


:cool:

Vsurma
28-11-2007, 12:04
Good idea, hadnt thought of it.

Though it does stop you from using the flight spell.

Its nice to have the enemy flee from a charge from kroxigors, then cast the spell and have your scar vet catch the unit and destroy it... or make it run off the board.

Malorian
28-11-2007, 17:59
I've use the scarvet in spears with pendant trick and it works great.

When looking at the cost you can't compare saurus+scarvet+skinks must be greater than what you kill, because you'll still have that unit after you finish off that unit.

So really it's just skinks + pendant must be greater than what you kill, and that's pretty easy.

The nice thing is that after you do it once you can play mind games with your opponent. He'll hide from that unit as it it were night goblins with 3 fanatics, so you can really puch him around (you can even get away with not taking it) or they'll try and draw it out with a weaker unit and you just flee with skinks and smash it with your saurus without using it : )

warlord hack'a
28-11-2007, 22:28
it's still quite an expensive unit (360 points) for 15 models including scar vet.. And the conditions need to be just right for it to work (the enemy needs to end up in CC with your unit while it is your turn), if you charge then the item will not work and you will not get the spear benefit. I see more use in the item making sure you win combat round number 2: in the first round you get charged but remain due to cold blooded, in the 2nd round you use the amulet and get to stirke first, hurting your opponent in no small manner...

Malorian
28-11-2007, 22:35
If you do it that why you lose several saurus that is probably more than the skinks,

If they don't charge the skinks you just keep putting on more pressure.

If you end up charging (those skinks could always flee) then you don't need to use the pendant or the spears because you can win without them.

Semi_Bunny
28-11-2007, 22:45
the only problem here is if your against high elves who ASF so the pendant really wouldnt be worth it anyway. That and if your enemy's war machines are on a hill and the unit is in line of sight, they could end up taking down a lot of them because they can shoot over the skink screen.

Malorian
28-11-2007, 23:02
Well ASF is something different. Against them you want magic and shooting and your slann and skinks have plenty ; )

And you can never play shooting from a hill, but I've never found shooting as bad as a strong unit in combat. I'll worry about that block of 10 knight before cannons on a hill any day.

soots
28-11-2007, 23:07
Wow i didnt know you could only use it in the lizardman turn! Ive been trying to devise a way to beat off that damned unit with that "must have" strike first item.

English 2000
30-11-2007, 05:00
Against ASF the pendant works on a 4+