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lonepilgrim
15-09-2005, 14:59
I am currently populating my own 40k Sector with Inquisitors. In this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11271) I reached the conclusion that there was an 80/20 split between Puritans and Radicals.

Now I want to work out which factions are best supported within the Inquisition.

As I understand it, there are six main factions. Here are brief descriptions:

Thorians seek to resurrect the Emperor into a new mortal body.

Monodominants seek to destroy all aliens, psykers, mutants and heretics thus leaving Mankind in control of the galaxy. They are ruthless, inflexible and intolerant.

Amalthians try to keep the Imperium as it currently is, destroying those who would destabilise Imperial institutions, working within local laws where possible.

Xanthites believe that Chaos can never be defeated and that the power of Chaos and the Warp can be used to benefit mankind. Horusians are a sub-division of Xanthites who believe that it may be possible to create a 'good' version of Horus, who could control the powers of Chaos positively for humanity.

Recongregators belive the Imperium is stagnant, it works despite it's massive organisations and not because of them, and needs to be destroyed so that it can be rebuilt.

Istvaanians try to strengthen Humanity through adversity, creating conflict so that heroes can emerge.

So what do you think? If you had to put a numbers and percentages on it, how do you think the Inquisition is made up?

Wiseman
15-09-2005, 15:09
I see mondomoninants as the main puritan faction, while the Istvaanians would be the most comon radicals, just my thoughts though

Inquisitor Samos
15-09-2005, 15:30
Speaking from the perspective of the background setting, I'd say the faction "membership" of the Inquisition likely varies from area to area..... there will be a higher ratio of Thorians to Monodominants in some parts of the Imperium than others, a higher ratio of Istvaanians to Xanthites in some, a higher proportion of Amalathians overall in others, etc. And there will be Inquisitors who don't really fit into the popular factions, as well.

In terms of your own setting, this means do whatever suits your tastes! :cool:


From my own personal perspective, for what it's worth, I generally feel like about 75% of the Inquisitors in both the "Puritan" and the "Radical" categories will further identify themselves at least to some degree with one of the popular factions (but this doesn't mean they're necessarily a "hard-core" member of that faction). Most of the remaining quarter will say they're not affiliated with one of those factions but are rather are members of a more minor one; a few won't identify themselves (at least openly) with any faction at all.

I see the leanings and faction "memberships" of the collective body of the Inquisition as being a very flexible continuum, rather than a clearly-defined set of categories into which each Inquisitor can be fit.

Khaine's Messenger
15-09-2005, 15:55
So what do you think?

My faith in human nature says that the most common puritans would be Amalathians and that the Inquisition is probably run by them, but then human nature is something that has been ground under-heel for thousands of years in 40k. My understanding of 40k literature suggests that Monodominants would either be similar in numbers if not greater. The gross majority of puritan Inquisitors, however, probably share Amalathian and Monodominant tendencies, the former because of its historical significance in the "new era" (post-Gathalamor), and the latter because of the Inquisitorial "party line" (a tad of the intellectual and a tad of the heavy hand); as you get closer to the end of the 41st millenium, though, monodominant tendencies will probably grow greater as the new era descends once more into (darker) darkness. Thorians would be the least popular of the puritan factions simply because the revivification of the Emperor isn't something that crosses many Inquisitors' minds as anything other than a theological musing or that "of course it's going to happen eventually"; it seems like too specialized and selfish (after a fashion) a purpose, with most of its creed bound up in its Quixotic quest towards a very specific set of goals rather than a more general creed about how to protect the Imperium in the now (why do it today when the Emperor's return will herald a new golden era?).

As for radicals...that's hard to say. All of them are relatively convoluted in both their execution and reasoning, and they keep their numbers and connections (and often their radical ideologies) secret. Xanthitism is probably the most visible of the radical factions, and is probably the only one that possesses much in the way of clout with the upper echelons, as senior Inquisitors will probably be mildly radical in this regard at some point or another (and really, the line starts blurring somewhere mid-Thorian, although I won't pretend it's all on a pretty spectrum and that one must travel through Thorian to get to the radical philosophies ;) ). Recongregators and Istvaanians are as Quixotic and selfish as Thorians, but even more destructive with their methods and apocalyptic in their ideologies. I doubt they're really all that common, as their philosophies are massively counterintuitive and well beyond Xanthite philosophy. Of the two, Istvaanians would be the more common, although not by an incredibly large margin, simply because it is not as apocalyptic and does not advocate the complete cleansing of the old order.

As for who has the power in the Inquisition? I would hazard the main outspoken power groups would be the Amalathians, Monodominants, and Xanthites. The first because of the ideologies of the "new era" of Gathalamor are still prevalent even though the 41st millenium hasn't been all that good (it does have a fairly "administrative" twinge to it anyway), the second due to stubborn conservatism and the simplicity of its single-mindedness (a duel of wits between Tyrus and Karamazov would be quite entertaining), and the last because there's always someone higher up who will go that route and get away with it for a while before collapsing to the purportedly inevitable for whatever reasonse (hubris, etc.)...and you can always cloak its terminology in more beatific locution.

I put "numbers" in the other thread. ;)

Iracundus
15-09-2005, 16:06
Actually Monodominants are not the main Puritan faction if you read their full description in the Inquisitor rulebook. They are the stereotypical Puritan taken to the extreme, which if taken far enough lapses into Radicalism as described in the Sisters of Battle Codex. They are the people who would try and kill every psyker in the Imperium, with the exception of the Emperor, and in doing so cause the collapse of the Imperium. They are the hot headed people who would try and kill otherwise perfectly loyal Imperial citizens or officials whose only crime would be being less extreme (heresy in the eyes of the most fervent Monodominants), and cause huge upheaval and destruction within the Imperium.

The most common one seems to be Amalathians who strive to preserve the status quo of the Imperium as it currently is. They are the people that recognize the Imperium cannot stand without psykers, albeit rigidly controlled and tamed ones, and those that understand one cannot go around tearing apart the power structure for the tiniest of reasons.

Although the Xanthite faction may be the highest profile and most easily recognized of the Radical factions, I think the Recongregators are given less attention than they deserve. They seem the perfect faction for idealistic Inquisitors disillusioned with the corruption within the system. Not to mention they are good companions for Sensei.

Twisted Ferret
15-09-2005, 16:47
They are the people who would try and kill every psyker in the Imperium
But psykers aren't aliens:

thus leaving Mankind in control of the galaxy
If that's their goal, why are they concerned with psykers?

precinctomega
15-09-2005, 16:50
Monodominantism is also a fairly "new" faction in the background, having only recently found broad favour and so is likely to less populous as a faction than might be expected.

Amalathians are definitely the predominant faction.

Thorians are a very small faction (although understandably popular with players of Inquisitor) but enjoy disproportionate influence thanks to the presence of members in high places throughout the Adeptus Terra and Ecclesiarchy. They really sit onthe borderline between "puritan" and "radical" - such terms aren't really helpful in understanding the political dynamic in the Inquisition, though.

R.

Iracundus
15-09-2005, 17:00
Monodominants aren't purely concerned about aliens. None of the factions are. They are against psykers, mutants, and aliens but to such an extent that if they had their way, the Imperium would collapse.

malika
15-09-2005, 17:24
This might sound dumb, but all these factions to me sound as if they are part of the Ordo Malleus, am I right here? Or are there also Horusian Ordo Xenos Inquisitors?

Flame Boy
15-09-2005, 17:58
I would say it depends on the education and personal preference of the Inquisitor when it comes to their philosophy and their Ordo affiliation. For example, a Thorian Inquisitor could be looking for the new vessel for the Emperor's soul by inquiring into Eldar spirit stones and Wraithbone, making them a Radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor. They could also work in the Ordo Hereticus, searching for practices deemd heretical that could contribute towards their needs, but most would be in the Ordo Malleus, as they would study the nature of the warp and souls directly to try and locate the Emperor's essence.

Following the above example, I would imagine many Inquisitorial factions would affiliate themselves with a particular group, for example the Ordo Hereticus to follow their own interpretation of their personal philosophy within the main Inquisitorial factions.

In your example, Malika, I'm sure there would be Radical Inquisitors out there that are tracking down Xenos species that have a close connection to the warp and secretly studying them to try to understand how to create a human champion able to wield the forces of chaos without corruption.

Minister
15-09-2005, 18:49
This might sound dumb, but all these factions to me sound as if they are part of the Ordo Malleus, am I right here? Or are there also Horusian Ordo Xenos Inquisitors?
Horusians are more a specialised Maleus faction. However, Xanthites believe in using anything and everything (including Chaos and Xenos mercenaries and/or technology) to further the goals of the Imperium; Amalthians are as prevelant in each of the three major orders; Hereticus members can ascribe to Monodominantism and so-on.

From what has been seen, the Maleus tend to be the most polarised, whilst the Hereticus tends to be less clear-cut. The Xenos mainstream tends somewhat towards the radical side (in the adaptation of limited levels of the least heretical alien technology, for example).

lonepilgrim
16-09-2005, 07:14
For those who haven't read the previous thread, here are Khaine's Messenger's numbers:

Puritans of no particular factional leaning would probably constitute a singular majority of "known" Inquisitors (say, ~45-50%), then Monodominants and Amalathians (~35-45%), then Thorians (~0-9%), then Xanthites (~1-9%), and then other radicals who have realized that it's to their benefit to keep some ties with "the man."

lonepilgrim
16-09-2005, 07:45
Okay, let's try and put some figures on these things.

It seems that everyone agrees that the Thorians make up a tiny number of Inquisitors. I'm going to say 1%.

Istvaanians and Recongregators are probably no more prevalent, so they get 2% apiece, while the Xanthites are more common and get 5%.

Everyone agrees Amalthians form the biggest faction so I'll give them 30%.

Monodominants are a recent but fast growing faction, and probably gaining in power as the Imperium comes under further attack. Since I'm looking at the Skolarii Sector in 950.M41 I'm assigning the Mono's 20%.

The one faction I forgot to list is the Inquisitors without a faction! They would form quite a sizeable chunk of the Inquisition I think, the Inquisitors allowing themselves to be defined by their Ordos, rather than a dominant philosophy. So they get 40%.

Does that seem reasonable? Any glaring errors?

Nazguire
16-09-2005, 09:57
Well the recongregators I believe would logically, be fairly in the minority. If there was too many of them, then the High Lords would be having things to say about them. That is if the Inquisition IS answerable to the High Lords.

I believe it'd be probably be Amalathians, with a good smattering of Monodominants in the mix. Chaos-radical Inquisitor types and other more abstract beliefs (Ordo Hydra for example) would be fairly rare as opposed to the majority.

Brusilov
16-09-2005, 13:15
I would also point out that, not only could you point out that there are some Inquisitors who consider themselves as either radical or puritan (and those who consider themselves the former are relatively rare, see the Eisenhorn trilogy) and not a member of any faction (even if only loosely), there are also factions that are not mentioned in the book.

These factions cover up many things, but wouldn't there be a faction of radicals who would want to learn as much as they could from the Xenos they study and fight to improve the ability of the Imperium to fight any threat, aka the Xenos version of the Xanthites.
There could also be regional factions based on the teaching of a prominent Inquisitor from that sector and whose disciplines try to leave up to his example.

Just throwing some food for thought into this discussion.

LoerdofallJoy
16-09-2005, 14:55
I would also have thought that there would be a large number of Inquisitors who don't cfount themselves as either Radical or Puritan. As well as those who blur the boundries, and those who have changed path or who perhaps harbour Radical thoughts without necessarly acting on them.

Agreed these Inquisitors may not make up a significant percentage, but I thought I'd stir the pot.

lonepilgrim
16-09-2005, 15:22
These factions cover up many things, but wouldn't there be a faction of radicals who would want to learn as much as they could from the Xenos they study and fight to improve the ability of the Imperium to fight any threat, aka the Xenos version of the Xanthites.

Yep, this is something to be aware of. When (if?) GW get round to producing the Xenos/Alienhunters codex they could introduce a whole new set of factions/power structures/organisational details into the Inquisition. For now, though, I'll just count the minor and unexplored factions as factionless for my figures. By giving them a fairly high 40% it gives me some wriggle room later.


There could also be regional factions based on the teaching of a prominent Inquisitor from that sector and whose disciplines try to leave up to his example.

This is a fascinating idea. I'm going to steal it :D

Now what new faction could I invent?

Brusilov
17-09-2005, 02:31
Something that needs to be mentioned as well, is that radicalism and puritanism are very much subjective. They vary from one Inquisitor to the next, as the Eisenhorn trilogy demonstrates.

As to a regional factions, it would depend on your sector, does it have a special feature, an alien race or an Inquisitor that would create this special faction.

Khaine's Messenger
17-09-2005, 03:03
As to a regional factions, it would depend on your sector, does it have a special feature, an alien race or an Inquisitor that would create this special faction.

Indeed. You can even note the growth of the current factions from marginal factions with their own small followings and published manifestos and well-defined creeds. Which sorta begs the question of whether or not one can be a "true" Amalathian without having made a pilgrimage to Gathalamor (or indeed if anyone other than the original attendants of that conclave or various hangers on can be "true" Amalathians) and an intense study of the doctrines espoused there, or a "true" Monodominant or Xanthite without believing 100% in the manifestos and founding principles of those "factions" (Would they consider themselves such even if they did not worry about the works of Inquisitor Xanthus? Have all monodominants read the works of Inquisitor Goldo? Or is it simple that they merely share general ideas?). It provides for amusing intra-faction divisiveness, if nothing else....

Anyway, "regional" factions should probably be clarified. "Small" factions are likely, and needn't be restricted to specific regions, although it's possible that they could be. Indeed, one might consider some of the more-than-semi-permanent conclaves/covens/etc. to be "factions" rather than sub-ordos or "new" ordos...like the "Ordo" Hydra. And one has to clarify even there, whether a faction has an inherent "hierarchy" independant of the Inquisition's own "hierarchy"....

lonepilgrim
17-09-2005, 12:11
As to a regional factions, it would depend on your sector, does it have a special feature, an alien race or an Inquisitor that would create this special faction.

Well, there isn't anything that particularly defines the Sector. Indeed, I conceived it as a background setting for all of my 40k games and I tend to flit from army to army, and play lots of different opponents, so I didn't want to do anything to restrict things too much. Additionally, I wanted to build a 'typical' Sector from the ground up, tying in as many different strands of background material together as possible.

I guess the biggest event in the history of the Sector is the chaos invasion of 333.M41 and the subsequent re-invasion of 986.M41. The system of Khazalin was declared purgatos and blockaded by the Inquisition. That would be the obvious place to start.

If an Inquisitor discovered something on Khazalin six hundred years ago, and passed his findings on to, say, three generations of new Inquisitors, that could be enough to create a new minor faction for my Sector.

Hmmm, lots of possibilities...

lonepilgrim
17-09-2005, 14:28
Indeed. You can even note the growth of the current factions from marginal factions with their own small followings and published manifestos and well-defined creeds. Which sorta begs the question of whether or not one can be a "true" Amalathian without having made a pilgrimage to Gathalamor (or indeed if anyone other than the original attendants of that conclave or various hangers on can be "true" Amalathians) and an intense study of the doctrines espoused there, or a "true" Monodominant or Xanthite without believing 100% in the manifestos and founding principles of those "factions" (Would they consider themselves such even if they did not worry about the works of Inquisitor Xanthus? Have all monodominants read the works of Inquisitor Goldo? Or is it simple that they merely share general ideas?). It provides for amusing intra-faction divisiveness, if nothing else....

I would imagine that each Inquisitorial faction is as riven by internal divisions as the Inquisition as a whole is. Indeed, the author of the 'Report on contemporary power formations within the Inquisition' presented in the Inquisitor rulebook seems to think this diversity of thought is a good thing (as long as there is careful manipulation of agents and information from the shadows).

How Inquisitors become attached to certain factions is an interesting question.

Do they choose which faction to follow in 'Inquisitor university' or do different 'universities' teach only certain philosophies? Or is it purely random, depending on the Inquisitor each budding Acolyte is assigned to? Maybe each faction employs it's own secret agents dedicated to finding new recruits from the Schola Progenium and 'influencing' them to think in a certain way. Perhaps it's an internal thing for each Inquisitor, their backgrounds, experiences and abilities choosing the faction for them.

And once they have decided upon a faction, how are their beliefs taught and disseminated? Does each faction have it's version of a holy book? The Monodominants have Goldo's treatise, and the Xanthites have Xanthus' works. Presumably the other factions have their versions too, and all factions have minor works which build upon the original.

I suppose if the main way of reinforcing the factions is being told and shown by a senior Inquisitor, then everyone within each faction will be practising a subtle variation of the creed (chinese whispers).

Brusilov
18-09-2005, 03:46
IMHO there is no such thing as Inquisition universities. At best, Explicators (IIRC the lowest level of Inquisitor trainees) would have Schola Progenium training before they are handed to an Inquisitor for apprenticeship. This is the way new Inquisitors are trained IMHO. As such the philosophy of new Inquisitors would depend on their personality and the philosophy of their master.