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Rhino99
28-11-2007, 03:32
So my friends and I have been playing a 40K mini game that has really taken our group by storm. I am posting it here to get some ideas on how to improve it. The game is fairly simple...

-Take a maxxed out squad of a troop choice with only 1 heavy OR special weapon. I usually use 10 Marines since I play them. Stick them in a bunker on the short side of a 48"x24" table. Use the bunker rules from the BGB.

- In addition to your squad there are two additional models in the bunker, the spotlight operator and the artillery guy, (expalined later). Excuse the weak names for these guys...

- Next, make 4 squads of 24 Gaunts. The composition of the 4 squads is up to you but we usually use 1 squad of death gaunts, 1 squad termagaunts, and 2 squad spine gaunts. Set them up on the side opposite the bunker.

-The game consists of 12 turns, (in theroy). The first 8 turns are considered to be daylight and the final 4 are played using the nightfight rules.

- Set up 2 tree trays as terrain, the defender places one 30 inches from the bunker and the invader places the other 20 inches from the bunker.

The idea is to live till 'morning.' Seemingly impossible, the secondary objective is to kill as many gaunts as possible. Depending on the challenge you are looking for the gaunts will come on to the table either every turn or every other.

SPECIAL RULES

-The gaunts continually recycle until the defenders fall or the day breaks.
-Synapse is ignored
-Troops in the bunker always count as stationary.
-When one of your defenders are given a wound you can instead assign that would to either the spotlight operator or the artillery guy.
-Your spotlight operator allows you to make use of a spotlight during the night
-The artillery guy allows the defender to drop that huge apocalypse template once after turn 4.
-Spotlight operators and artillery guys don't participate in combat and are considered civilians.

Thats it... Fairly easy and fun. Any feedback??

Rhino

Moriarty
28-11-2007, 07:10
Sounds interesting, I take it for game purposes the two 'civilians' are stat 3 along the line and Save 6? Do their deaths affect the squad Leadership rolls?

catbarf
28-11-2007, 10:27
Sounds like Guard players would get screwed.

sly_dog
28-11-2007, 12:05
I think Guard actually has one of the bigger advantages. One maxed out TROOP choice means about fifty men sitting there, and there's a lot of stuff you can do with that.

Unless they mean one maxed out singular squad, in which case, yeah, they're screwed.

RampagingRavener
28-11-2007, 12:18
I think Guard actually has one of the bigger advantages. One maxed out TROOP choice means about fifty men sitting there, and there's a lot of stuff you can do with that.

Yea, but it's only one Heavy Weapon, so it's not that much of an advantage. It's gonna be about 49 Lasguns and a Heavy Bolter.

Resurrected
28-11-2007, 12:41
One heavy weapon OR one special weapon. Id be tempted to stick 49 lasguns and a flamer in there. Up nice and close so you can smell the burning 'Nids. ;)

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 12:53
Yea, but it's only one Heavy Weapon, so it's not that much of an advantage. It's gonna be about 49 Lasguns and a Heavy Bolter.

Actually:

5 man command squad + Psyker + Priest + Commissar
- medic, veterans, flamer?

5x 10 infantry squads with voxes and vet sgts (each vet sgt with plas pistol perhaps?) ;)

Cue autowin for Guard. :p

de Selby
28-11-2007, 13:11
I think that trying to tweak force selection to win this scenario is the most pointless thing I've ever heard. It's completely contrived so as to give an interesting (and tense) game. If your single troops choice is too weak or two strong, change the rules until it works as intended.

edit: trying to stay on topic. I guess that part of the strategy for this game is deciding who is expendable at any given stage of the game? So it might be more interesting if actual members of the squad were given spotter or artillery roles, and the others had their own specialisations (maybe an ammunition guy conferring re-rolls, for example). It seems quite tough at the moment so it wouldn't do any harm to introduce more special abilities.

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 13:17
I think that trying to tweak force selection to win this scenario is the most pointless thing I've ever heard. It's completely contrived so as to give an interesting (and tense) game. If your single troops choice is too weak or two strong, change the rules until it works as intended.

Yeh, you just add more 'nids. Thing is tho', you gots to admit, 58 Guardsmen in a bunker is pretty funny. :p

Bunnahabhain
28-11-2007, 13:19
55 lasguns vs T3,6+ save are still effective.

55 lasgun shots, 22.5 hits, 11.25 wounds, ~10 dead a turn.

But if it's a true troops choice, then I'll include 5 veteran sargeants, 4 veterans and the officer. That's 10 BS 4 models, all with access to storm bolters. Include a heavy bolter as well, and upgrade everyone eligable to sharp shooters.

= 21.04 dead gaunts a turn between 12" and 24".
=32.08 dead gaunts a turn at under 12".

That's a proper demonstartion of Guard infantry firepower, for a mere 499 points....

It had better be a very big bunker though for 55 men.

Going by RAW, the OP didn't exclude transports, so I'll take the mechanised doctrine, and take 6 chimeras, with heavy bolters, multilasers and heavy stubbers, and search lights. That's another 42 dead a turn, unless I go for hull heavy flamers, twin linked heavy bolter turrets, or other options that could be considered overkill.

With carapace armour, close order drill, and xeno hunters, just to make the assualt if it hits a little less scarey..... EDIT: 1327 pts, for the one troops choice, able to split fire as needed.

EDIT. Forgot the advisors. Run out of doctrines, so it'll just be a commisar with storm bolter, carapace and power sword. Might as well master craft it, and give him bionics and a medallion crimson for fluffyiness.


I too think we need some more nids...

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 13:21
And Bunnahabhain wins. ALMOST.

Because he forgot to swap the Chimeras for Valkyries! :p

Bunnahabhain
28-11-2007, 13:47
The set up. I hope I have enough horror movie cliches in there...

7th platoon, 3rd company, Ludzow Rangers, have been dispatched to investigate why communictions relay #17 has gone off line. They're an elite, experinced unit, who have seen the worst the system can throw at them, and have learned to kill whatever it is in a most efficient manner.

As they approach their destination it's quiet. Too quite. There are no animals left, almost as if something has scared them all off....

When they arrive, the men left there have dissappeared, and the comms dishes have been smashed. Their orders are to invstigate, and repair, so they unload the spares and equipment from their chimeras, and start work.. They try and call up HQ, but until the communications relay is up and runnning, the atmospheric interference is too strong. The sentries observe there's something moving about in the distance, and a chimera is dispatched to investigate....

It returns, it tracks covered in corrosive gore, flanks splattered with impacts, and the crew reporting large numbers of hostiles coming this way, fast.

The men occupy the bunkers and buildings, check their weapons, and wait for the order to open fire...

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 13:49
Ah, yes, but where are the Valkyries? Hm? ;)

It'd be fun doing this with PDF troops taken from the Witchhunter Adversaries List I reckon.

Bunnahabhain
28-11-2007, 14:07
Ah, yes, but where are the Valkyries? Hm? ;)

It'd be fun doing this with PDF troops taken from the Witchhunter Adversaries List I reckon.

No enough lift capacity for the transmitter spares. You can always strap more stuff on the outside of a tank without worrying too much about weight or aerodynamics..
(And I have many chimeras, but only the one valkyrie..)

Or to fit the cliche even more, the atmospheric interverence is due to the constant violent thunderstorms, which grounds aircraft for all but top priority missions.

To get the Valkyrie in, we can have it doing a bomb run instead of the artillery strike. An urgent support mission called in when the men see the massive hordes approaching, and the one fluke transmission gets through, but then the weather gets worse, so that's all the support you get...

I can see why you'd like to get them in though. Short ranged weapons hitting on 6's, that can only affect the rear of the aircraft, and a decent anti personal weapons fit. Doesn't fit the cliche though, having something the horde can't touch....

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 14:12
No enough lift capacity for the transmitter spares. You can always strap more stuff on the outside of a tank without worrying too much about weight or aerodynamics..

Arvus lighter. :p


I can see why you'd like to get them in though. Short ranged weapons hitting on 6's, that can only affect the rear of the aircraft, and a decent anti personal weapons fit. Doesn't fit the cliche though, having something the horde can't touch....

No, that's true, but it would be bloody hilarious for just one game!

Hm, a 15-strong PDF unit with Heavy Stubber would face a serious challenge... I think perhaps allowing all options would even the odds a little; a PDF trooper isn't a Marine after all!

Ouroboros
28-11-2007, 14:47
Actually having a valkyrie/thunerhawk show up to extract any survivors might be an interesting variation on how to wrap up the scenario.

You could start rolling reserves for the aircraft around say turn ten, to see if it shows up. When it does though it doesn't fall under the players control or go around shooting up the gaunts. It lands on the landing pad and waits for the squad it's about to extract. If there are gaunts on the pad that would prevent it from landing it can fire to clear them out but this is the only situation in which it's permitted to do so before it lands. If it can't clear them it will circle and keep firing on them until it can land.

After it sets down the survivors need to embark it and escape to safety but here's the fun part. In the turn after the flyer sets down you start rolling reserves again for it, because the pilots start to get progressively more and more antsy sitting on the ground with a seemingly endless tide of gaunts still pouring in. Once the aircraft sets down it can fire at the gaunts normally but if any of them make it into close combat with it add +1 to the dice roll for reserves in any turn where the flyer starts with gaunts in BtB with it.

If the flyer passes its second reserve roll after it has landed the pilots decide everyone they were sent to extract is either dead already or not going to be able to reach them and they bug out themselves.

You could modify the "bug out" reserves roll for different forces depending on their background or the aircraft in question. You might want to give space marines a -1 bonus to the roll due to the fact that a thunderhawk full of superhumans is less likely to be scared off than a valkyrie with open doors and only 3 men to defend it. A general -1, or -2 even, for everybody might also be a good idea, just to ensure the flyer sticks around long enough to give the troops a fair chance of reaching it.

For this to work best you'll probably want to locate the landing pad a short distace from the bunker itself. Forcing the survivors to have to make a break for it with the gaunts closing in all around them once their extraction shows up.

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 14:52
That's actually a really good idea :D

So: Bunker, landing pad, and waves of Gaunts... sounds like a recipe for fun to me! :D Hell, you could swap the Gaunts for Orks, Plague Zombies, or even deranged cultists.

Emperor's Avenger
28-11-2007, 16:49
Actually:

5 man command squad + Psyker + Priest + Commissar
- medic, veterans, flamer?

5x 10 infantry squads with voxes and vet sgts (each vet sgt with plas pistol perhaps?) ;)

Plus a nine-model Remnants squad. 67 Guardsmen in one bunker.

Cirenivel
28-11-2007, 17:19
maybe you should be allowed to break your squad in half, something like combat squads, just to make it a little more flexible?
I for once don't think that it would be all that fun with just one squad...

Maybe, if you go with the general and COs suggestions of extraction and so on, you could add a guy that they will need to keep alive?
Like a survivor with some intel or something?

Cirenivel

Gen.Steiner
28-11-2007, 17:47
Maybe, if you go with the general and COs suggestions of extraction and so on, you could add a guy that they will need to keep alive?
Like a survivor with some intel or something?

Good idea - use the crashed Aquila terrain piece and have an officer and a remnant squad as his bodyguard and the crew?

SquishySquig
28-11-2007, 18:17
:skull: It does sound like a lot of fun. :skull:

Rhino99
28-11-2007, 19:36
Awesome ideas! I am def adding the landing pad 12" away from the bunker!!

ok, here are some clarifications and some things I forgot to mention....


-Civilians have 3's across the board and a 6+ save.

-The essence of the game says the best way to play is with between 12-15 guys. I use 8 bolter marines, 1 Sarge, and 1 marine with a flamer. The flamer is A-W-E-S-O-M-E in this senario.

Cirenivel
28-11-2007, 19:49
Yeah, now that I think of it, why not say that the defending player can just split his squad into even more than two?
If there's a dozen players playing, then you could have, for example, two players shuffling gaunts around, while the last ten or so has a model each?
That would slow the game down to some extent, but it would be just that much more realistic. With people running around by themselves, getting eaten by the zombies, whoops meant gaunts, while the rest is watching and trying to kill all the gaunts before they will suffer the same destiny :chrome:

Cirenivel

Rikens
28-11-2007, 19:55
I love the way nobody else has related their experience in actually trying this scenario out. Mind you I understand. I'd have to leave my computer and rustle up my gaming buddies!

The_Outsider
28-11-2007, 20:39
I do think the scenario is cool, though the 1 squad limit is harsh depending on race, so a bit of flexibility is required (or maybe give race specific options).

SM are fine with one tactical squad (same for their chaos counterparts).

Guard should be limited to 2 squads tops.

Eldar would be upto 10 DA or say 15 guardians.

Necrons would be 10 warriors.

DE would be 1 warrior squad (who can go upto 20 strong so maybe a cap is needed).

1 fire warrior squad is fine.

So on and so forth.

The Guy
28-11-2007, 21:09
Man this scenario sounds awesome!
Looks like I gotta make a bunker...
And a landing pad...
And a cardboard Valkyrie...[Hey I'm poor! :mad:]
And order those 3 zombie regiments I want. 60 zombies....:chrome:

Maybe you could make it where a suqad disembarks from the extraction vehicle to provide some cover fire. But when this happens perhaps double the ammount of gaunts that arrive each turn? This would show that things are getting worse and also put more emphasis on getting the guys out of there quick!

and for all you IG guys...Grenadiers :p

kanluwen
28-11-2007, 21:31
Actually...we had done something like this two years ago for Halloween after the EoT event.
Guardsmen had to hold out in a bunker against swarms of Plague Zombies that constantly recycled their casualties. In the vein of some video games, they came in 'waves', each wave becoming progressively harder to kill, with a leader that can be killed to cause MORE havoc amongst the zombies. What we did though was this:
Inside of the bunker, you set your single squad up( Stormtroopers for Guard, Scouts for SM, Fire Warriors for Tau, we didn't use 'nids because well...they'd just gobble the zombies up and it wouldn't be fun ;)).
One of the team members was designated the vox/comms operator. Every third turn, if he was still alive, you roll a D6. On a 1-2, a small unit of troops arrives and reinforces your position(barebones, no special weapons, same type of unit inside of the bunker.) On a 3-4, you recieved a transport vehicle(Chimera for Guard, Razorback for SM, Devilfish for Tau), in the event of a transport vehicle though, the next wave of zombies became progressively harder to kill. On a 5-6 though, you recieve an off-board artillery strike at your disposal. Whirlwind barrage, Basilisk barrage, or for Tau, a Railgun ordnance strike.
Once you've reached the 9th "wave" of zombies, a Chaos Marine Lord decked out akin to Typhus is placed on the board with the full complement of zombies. From there, it becomes simple--Kill him or lose :).

It was pretty damned fun, we modified it a few times to have an extract point, special weapons, etc; but they just weren't as fun as holding out.

Resurrected
28-11-2007, 22:36
I love the way this is getting more and more ideas to it. I think it shows exactly what we gamers can come up with when we put our mind to it ;)
Another idea, meshing together a couple of earlier ones, why dont we make it one player controlling one model with say, 25 points of equipment?
We could even go as far to saying after turn 8 then the characters have to start rolling for ammo depletion, on a roll of 1 they are out of ammo and have to resort to a laspistol etc?
Any comments/other ideas?

Rhino99
29-11-2007, 00:37
I have only used SM's, CSM's and Tau in this scenario... I have to admit my knowledge is lacking in the other races but I feel the 'strength' of each defender unit should be equal. If 20 gaurdsmen equal 10 marines then the IG sgould have 20 guys in the bunker.

We tried a 'half-strength' game with the landing pad tonight where the at the beginning of your turn you roll 2d6. On turn one, the transport will arrive on a 12, on turn two, 11+, etc. I think that mechanic needs a little tweaking but It works nicely. It got hairy as the Fire Warriors beat feet out of the bunker to the orca as a full 15 gaunts were only 17 inches away... 4 Fire Warriors escaped... HIGH DRAMA!

warchild9
29-11-2007, 00:51
put the bunker in the center and landing pad on the short edge have an *elite unit* arrive to replace a below half strength unit....but both units have to make it to bunker from landing pad and vice versa

CommissarKlink
29-11-2007, 01:15
I can't wait to try this with orks... I hope my Niddy friend (or the local GW) has enough gaunts.

Of course, I'ma try it three times, once with 30 shoota boyz + big shoota in the bunker, once with 30 choppa/slugga boyz + big shoota who sit in the bunker, and once with 30 choppa/slugga boyz with no special weapon who leave the bunker behind and wade into the fight. To paraphrase Max Power (a.k.a. Homer Simpson):

"dere's three wayz to do dis: dah rite way, dah rong way, and dah orky way."

"Isn't that the wrong way?"

"Yes, but fasta!"

Gen.Steiner
29-11-2007, 07:40
So:

Bunker in the middle of the table.

12" away is a landing pad.

Two or three bits of terrain some 20-30" away.

100 'Gaunts or Zombies in four squads of 25.
1 'Boss' Big Bad chap.

10-20 defenders, possibly an extraction if you can get through on the comm, maybe reinforcements (if the Big Bad is around).

Anything else? There's always the crashed Aquila and VIP with (or without) bodyguard who needs getting to...!

Ouroboros
29-11-2007, 08:21
The landing pad should probably be deployed on an angle behind the bunker, or at worst beside it. The gaunts/zombies etc should have to overrun the bunker before they get to clog up the landing pad but it shouldn't be so far away that the squad gets a free run directly away from the incoming horde.

I like the idea of using 2d6 for the initial reserve roll to. You could maybe adapt the same idea to the bug out roll as well. Instead of a reserve roll just use a leadership test for the flyer. If it fails it takes off, +1 to the roll for every full turn it's been on the ground already. This would take into account to some extent the race characteristics and give you a bit more flexability with the modifiers.

Here's a few more I can think of for the 2d6 ld test system.

Bug Out Roll Modifiers

+1 - 1-10 enemy models in base contact with the flyer
+2 - 11+ enemy models in base contact with the flyer
+1 - enemy models inflicted a glancing hit on the flyer in the previous turn
+2 - Enemy models inficted a penetrating hit on the flyer in the previous turn
+1 - The flyer has sustained damage of any kind
-1 - The flyer can see a friendly model within 18"
-2 - The flyer can see a friendly model within 6"
-2 - The flyer is a super heavy vehicle

Feel free to expand on/critique this list.

Gen.Steiner
29-11-2007, 08:25
I think if you've been penentrated you should automatically leave the board? I dunno, it seems to me that if you've survived a penentration you should either leg it there and then or at the very least take off, and come back when the LZ's less hot...

A Ld test at -2 to your Ld would work too tho'. :)

Ouroboros
29-11-2007, 08:30
Keep in mind that some of these mods would stack to.

If you say, had 15 gaunts in contact, they penetrated and glanced, and they caused a weapon destroyed, that would be a wopping +6 to the roll. Or -6 to the leadership depending on how you look at it.

Gen.Steiner
29-11-2007, 08:34
Ah, that makes more sense. Wow, modifiers in 4th Ed 40K, what is the world coming to? :p

screaming skull
06-09-2008, 18:23
I played this scenario with Rhino99 as my intro to Warhammer 40k, I had a squad of SM (with sarg) vs 1 squad Termagants and 1 squad Hormagaunts.

-Defender rolled a d6 after the first turn for the transport to arrive on the landing pad 12" away on the next turn (a 6 is needed for success).
-The gaunts continually recycle until the defenders fall or transport arrives
-Troops in the bunker had a 4+ cover save

When the gaunt close combat ensued, by the end only the sarg made it out, and even that looked iffy right up to the end. Good times!

Capone
07-09-2008, 09:08
This scenario sounds like great fun! I'm definitely going to try this out with my guard against a numberless horde of zombies!

AmKhaibitu
07-09-2008, 10:26
Hmm, thinking to myself, can noise marines go up to 20? if so that's a lot of sonic blasters :D

Slaaneshi Slave
07-09-2008, 11:43
20 Death Guard with flamer and combi flamer (vet) would be good contenders. Oh look, you hit me for 32 armour saves. Oh, 1 guy died.