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Avatar of the Eldar
28-11-2007, 05:17
OK kids, I've been free with my opinions about several HE lists posted here so now I'm going to post my first whack at a new list. It's a big shift after 2+ years running a mostly cavalry list. So, it's like starting over in some ways.

Without further ado...

Archmage Lvl 4 with Silver Wand + Ring o' Fury + Sacred Incense + Scroll

Mage Lvl 2 with Seerstaff + Scroll (may swap staff for Jewel of the Dusk)

Noble BSB on Barded Steed + Dragon Armor + Shield + Helm of Fortune + Sword of Might + Talisman of Loec

(I had considered Radiant Gem of Hoeth for more magic dominance but decided his juicy load of points were too vulnerable)

22 spears +FC (4x6) (BSB goes here)
23 spears +FC with Warbanner (Lvl 2 probably shelters here)

14 White Lions + FC + Banner of Sorcery
14 Swordmasters (because I have the models and to see how they fare may switch to Lions) + FC + Skeinsliver (Archmage brings -1 shooting here)
2 Lion Chariots (damn these are expensive but I want to give 'em a try)
2 RBTs
1 Eagles

My alternative is to convert the spear blocks to 15 Seaguard each with musicians only freeing up 75 pts.
Swap Lion Chariots for 14 PG with FC leaving 40 pts left over.
With the extra 115 pts I'd get:
1 more Eagle and 4 more PG to bring them to 3 ranks of 6 or the eagle plus:
2 LSG (to make them 2 ranks of 8 for shooting and 3x5 with a spare for CC)
2 more Swordmasters to make them 2x8 that's 17 str 5 attacks against a 6 wide cavalry unit or a 4 wide monster unit.
And a bow for the BSB for plinking at BS6 Str4, whee!

My first game will by this Thursday, probably against a Daemon Legion list - either the guy who won Best Overall at the Alamo Indy Tourney or the guy who won Best General.

I'll try to post my bat rep for y'all.

Es lebe die Hochelfen!

TheDrugLordX
28-11-2007, 14:36
Well you commented on my list (very nice thoughts!;)) so I thought it would be just right to comment on your list. I think we can give eachother some good advice seeing as we have different experiances with the HE.

*your archmage is pretty poorly protected. Any decent character will smack him down before you can retaliate, that's if you keep him with the swordmasters. Seeing as you have better magic protection and the -1 to be hit you could more or less just run around with him alone, if you dare taking the chance of blocking every shot & spell that might come his way.

*Personally not a fan of BSB. I find them a bit expensive for what they do, but that's just me I guess since many seem to like them.

*I havn't tried the lion chariot, but after a first glance at them they just seem to be more expensive in the end. Chariots have a tendency of being destroyed early, and spending more points on something just as fragile, and not more powerful, than the cheaper version of it seems like a waste of pts. (and I also find the M9 to be very valuable). But please to try them out, I'd like to know how they perform.

*Lothern sea guard are just as useless as they were before (well not useless, simply not as worthwhile as spearmen) and therefore I strongly suggest against removing the spearmen for sea guards.

* I would like to see some more manouverbility in your list, thinking that the eagle simply isn't enough. I know you hate reavers, but a group of shadow warriors or another eagle could serve well.

Avatar of the Eldar
28-11-2007, 15:35
Well you commented on my list (very nice thoughts!;)) so I thought it would be just right to comment on your list. I think we can give eachother some good advice seeing as we have different experiances with the HE.

*your archmage is pretty poorly protected. Any decent character will smack him down before you can retaliate, that's if you keep him with the swordmasters. Seeing as you have better magic protection and the -1 to be hit you could more or less just run around with him alone, if you dare taking the chance of blocking every shot & spell that might come his way.

*Personally not a fan of BSB. I find them a bit expensive for what they do, but that's just me I guess since many seem to like them.

*I havn't tried the lion chariot, but after a first glance at them they just seem to be more expensive in the end. Chariots have a tendency of being destroyed early, and spending more points on something just as fragile, and not more powerful, than the cheaper version of it seems like a waste of pts. (and I also find the M9 to be very valuable). But please to try them out, I'd like to know how they perform.

*Lothern sea guard are just as useless as they were before (well not useless, simply not as worthwhile as spearmen) and therefore I strongly suggest against removing the spearmen for sea guards.

* I would like to see some more manouverbility in your list, thinking that the eagle simply isn't enough. I know you hate reavers, but a group of shadow warriors or another eagle could serve well.

Indeed, turnaround is fair play...

* As I just commented in your thread, in the last ~50 games, I've rarely lost an Archmage and usually it was in the last turn or so after my army had already collapsed. The last time I can remember was agains a Clan Eshin master assassin skitterleaping in front of the block of spears the mage was hiding in. He got killed but the assassin was skewered in return. With ASF, that assassin wouldn't have touched the mage. I've never been concerned about "protecting" my mages with individual gear. (My challenge used to be having only two infantry units to shelter in. But no more!)

* As for the BSB, I've never been a fan in the past either. I figured our leadership was good enough and I usually had a unit commander (elite) packing the Blessed Tome for +1 LD in 6". Well that tchochke is gone and with White Lions being so kick-ass, I thought that rerollable, stubborn LD 9 on the flanks might be worth a try. (keep in mind I'll probably trade the SM's in for another WL)

* Regarding the Lion Chariots, again, I share your reservation. I think their hideously expensive but I'm trying them because a) they're new, b) I was given two of them for my birthday and c) I believe they must be used in 2's to split fire and increase their psych-warfare dimension. But their just as fragile as the Tiranoc version and I too valued the 18" charge range. The only prob there is they'd be hanging way out in front of the rest of the army after a log charge. I like them with Dragon Princes. But those days are gone.

* I hear you about LSG, but what's giving me a second thought is a friend ran them 3 times this past weekend - twice against Khorne DL and once agains WE. They performed quite well. The opponents were so concerned about the 3 units of White Lions the LSG were ignored as they advanced in shooting formation and then added a rank to help out in CC.

* And finally, I used to be all about the manouverability but I just don't see the need anymore. I may be forced to rethink this, but right now I don't expect to see much HE cav on the tourney circuit - unless it's a crazy dragon-based list. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

I've enjoyed the exchange and again I urge you to post your experiences since everything else is hypothesis and assumption.

Best,

TheDrugLordX
29-11-2007, 22:34
If you want a though army, I just thought about a nasty combo! Have one of the mages get Courage of Aenarion (lore of high) and the other Guardian Light (lore of Light). If you get to have both of them in play at the same time, you're entire army (if you have your units close together) would be imune to psychology and stubborn. With a LD of 9 (and your BSB) nothing in your army would ever run. Now that's something that would obliterate most undead armies...

Anyways, I still don't believe in LSG. You say they can advance and shoot? With a front of say 10, they get 10 shots, as they move, and only have a short Bow, they're mostly going to hit on 5's. Roughly 3 hits, and then what, you kill 1 guy? I believe in specialisation. Have a unit to do its part, then have another unit to do some other part. Never have a unit do try to do both, as the game's only 6 turns (well most of the times) the unit(s) in question will hardly ever have the oppurtunity or time to take care of more than one given task. But that's just my view on it.

And well, HE cavalry might have seen its glory days, but I still think balance is vital. I covered this in my own thread so I'll spare you the pain of reading it twice ;)