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arxhon
14-04-2005, 17:40
"Woe is me. I have to wear a red dress"

"That's ok, baby, i need a haircut."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ladymairwen/117715.html

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
14-04-2005, 18:02
because theyre normal, thats why.

salty
14-04-2005, 18:06
Haha, that woman looks like one of my mother's friends!

Salty :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
14-04-2005, 18:08
Because they want to [and claim to] be different, despite the fact that they're EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER GOTH IN THE WORLD!!

And they moan about everything, usually picky little things like 'I have to brush my hair' or 'I have to wear a uniform at school'.

N'bel
14-04-2005, 18:12
Thats kind of creepy...

VanHel
14-04-2005, 18:18
That makes my pants sad.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
14-04-2005, 18:19
wtf?! your pants?

pullsyjr
14-04-2005, 18:22
Why goths get made fun of

Because they deserve it.

salty
14-04-2005, 18:22
Because they want to [and claim to] be different, despite the fact that they're EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER GOTH IN THE WORLD!!

And they moan about everything, usually picky little things like 'I have to brush my hair' or 'I have to wear a uniform at school'.

Thats not ture at my school, they have to wear a uniform but they just wear their big, baggy black sweaters over the top of it.

Salty :)

Unspun_Hero
14-04-2005, 18:23
normal? I reckon there isn't one normal person in the world.

Sorry to bring this up but the whole goth / grunger / trendy / roodboy thing really does make me laugh. Here's my view on it...

1. Grungers / Goths laugh at trendies and roodboys.
- They travel in packs
- They all look the same to the grungers and goths, supposedly dressing like their music idols.
- They stand around takin the **** out of grungers / goths.
- When in these packs, will often try to start a row.

2. Trendies / roodboys laugh at grungers and goths.
- They travel in packs
- They all look the same to the trendies and rodboys, supposedly dressing like their music idols.
- They stand around takin the **** out of trendies / roodboys.
- When in these packs, will often try to start a row.

************************************************** **************
I speak my opinion from a place where I know whats gwanin. Everyday I hear the grungers going at the trendies, the goths sniping at the roodboys and vice - versa.
This will go on as long as there are shallow minded people in the world.

yes I wear jeans and a t-shirt, yes I might wear a pair of trainers. I'm no grunger and sick to death of the trendies image. I don't live in the most peaceful area in the world and I get hassle from all kinds of people. The worst was probably a group of goths and grungers outside a club frequented by rock / metal lovers who set about me and the girl I took out for the evening. I got quite hurt and luckily some bouncers saw my date safely away from it as I was havin a hard time keeping between her and a horde of foul mouthed marilyn manson wannabes. I've also had a similar deal with groups of roodboys (this time me and my cousin who came down for the day from Hampshire) who took a dislike to us for walking past THEIR club.

It's my view in general that the whole lot of em are nobs, can't do anything for themselves so they all hang round with their replica friends and try to start on people for bein different to them. Bo**ox!

(edited to star-out the naughty word)

taer
14-04-2005, 18:24
i dunno, Goth chicks turn me on. Goth guys should be beaten with aforementioned base-ball bat (Warhammer thread in WH General)

arxhon
14-04-2005, 18:30
I'd like to qualify your statement to "cute chicks in goth clothes turn me on". ;)

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
14-04-2005, 18:33
hey taer thanks for making me throw up....

Every single goth girl i have ever seen is ugly as ****, and last year there was a ton of goths in my school but most of them moved so theres like 6 left. Thank god.

Wez
14-04-2005, 18:44
Yes, there's some pretty stupid 'goths' around.

Just like there's lots of stupid chavs/grungers/ stoners/rood-boys/trendies etc.

Then again there's intelligent 'goths' as well, just as there are intelligent chavs*/grungers/ stoners/rood-boys/trendies.

-Wez

*although you may not believe it, a guy in my year is on for 12 A*s at gcse, and he's a chav for all intents and purposes.

The boyz
14-04-2005, 18:51
Every single goth girl i have ever seen is ugly as ****.


I second that :D

pullsyjr
14-04-2005, 18:57
My observations are that people are the same, whether they dress up like idiots or not.

There's about 10 different people on the planet. Everyone is just a copy of them. Nobody's unique - 'one in a million' means that there's about 3000 exact duplicates of you walking about right now.

The 'goths are ugly as ****' quote is not entirely true... If they weren't made up to look like fools, some of the girls are actually quite attractive. Not the one in the original post though - she has no chance.

Piku
14-04-2005, 19:02
The idea that the skinny guy could overpower the big lady makes me laugh.

taer
14-04-2005, 19:03
Ok, I'll qualify my own statement. Gilrs who are normally considered pretty turn me on. Take that same girl, and add Goth gear, and you've just pushed one of my fetish buttons. There, so the ugly chick in the link at the top of the thread does not do anything for me, my best woman friend, however, makes me crazy.

Edit: I'll qualify my statement even further. The people I was referring to hitting with a bat aren't really goths, but rather all the mall-core kids that took something beautiful (in my eyes) and ****ed it up. The women, however, are exempt, because like I said, they turn me on hardcore.

Hymirl
14-04-2005, 19:13
Its quite sad that people seem to think they're funny announcing that all Goths are ugly, such generalisations are merely idiotic, not to mention I dought they're go around saying "all black people are ciminals" or other examples of unaccepted bigotry. Say you only liked one kind of sport would you disrespect all other players as too rubbish to be able to play your game?

Some goths are ugly, some are stupid, and some try to start fights. That one in the pictures is scoring two of three, and can add horribly fat to the list. On the other hand if you had much contact with the really curious 'chav' scene you find the other end of the scale. Extremists are stupid, no matter which extreme they're championing for.
Hymirl.

taer
14-04-2005, 19:19
Its quite sad that people seem to think they're funny announcing that all Goths are ugly, such generalisations are merely idiotic, not to mention I dought they're go around saying "all black people are ciminals" or other examples of unaccepted bigotry. Say you only liked one kind of sport would you disrespect all other players as too rubbish to be able to play your game?

Some goths are ugly, some are stupid, and some try to start fights. That one in the pictures is scoring two of three, and can add horribly fat to the list. On the other hand if you had much contact with the really curious 'chav' scene you find the other end of the scale. Extremists are stupid, no matter which extreme they're championing for.
Hymirl.


A-F@#%!@#-men


Edit: BTW: for curiosity's sake, what the hell is a Chav?

Brother Munro
14-04-2005, 19:20
To quote Angel (or rather Wesley pretending to be Angel) "I almost forgot to brood!" ;)

People pick on goths because goths deliberately try not to fit in, and peer groups like people to fit in (frak knows why). Goths also moan a fair bit, which is bound to get on people's nerves until they say "Oh stop whinging and do something about it!". If you can find one of the rather rare (but very cool) perky goths you'll see that not all goths are depressed however :D

PKAGustov
14-04-2005, 19:40
I don't know, I think she was kinda cute. I'd even ask her out. The funny thing is I've met the "Perky Goth" type, now that is something you don't see every day, and it can be delightful. Although twig-boy, on the other hand, looks like he could use a sandwich and pie, mmm pie.
People make fun of goths just like they make fun of rednecks, chavs, wannabe gang-bangers, or anything else you could think of. It is just the way life is.

Grimtuff
14-04-2005, 19:46
A-F@#%!@#-men


Edit: BTW: for curiosity's sake, what the hell is a Chav?


*goes to default answer mode*

http://www.chavscum.co.uk

and because it affiliated in some way

http://www.barryboys.co.uk

neXus6
14-04-2005, 20:07
One of the other terms for Chav, NED (Non-Educated Delinquent), if they are a NED then they can not be smart.

I'd like to say that at least 90% of goth girls are ugly...they seem to like hiding behind the "I don't care what I look like or what you think of it" thing way to much. The other 10% that actually look hot... :eek: :cool:

Real goths, like those in their 40s who are actually goths tend to be pretty cool people.

Basicly for defining the whole "groups thing" I think it's easier to simply say "A large percentage of teenagers like to hang out in groups of similarly dressed teenagers and pick fights with similar groups who wear different clothes."

I bloody hate kids...even though I am one.

*Edited cause i made myself look like I was attracted to 40+ goth "girls."*

Beefstick
14-04-2005, 20:49
How is the skinny guy overpowering the fat lady? I can at least understand why he wants to kill her though. Also, are they reverse vampires or something? It's soooo sunny and nice out. They should be playing frisbee or something instead of sitting around brooding.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
14-04-2005, 21:25
Its quite sad that people seem to think they're funny announcing that all Goths are ugly, such generalisations are merely idiotic, not to mention I dought they're go around saying "all black people are ciminals" or other examples of unaccepted bigotry. Say you only liked one kind of sport would you disrespect all other players as too rubbish to be able to play your game?

Some goths are ugly, some are stupid, and some try to start fights. That one in the pictures is scoring two of three, and can add horribly fat to the list. On the other hand if you had much contact with the really curious 'chav' scene you find the other end of the scale. Extremists are stupid, no matter which extreme they're championing for.
Hymirl.

I was just telling you what i got from my personal experiences. I have never, ever, ever seen a hott goth girl in my life, and i dont think i will (from what i have seen so far) and for your information i am not rascist and i have plenty of black friends who i dont think of as criminals.

By the way, chavs are wiggers for all of you americans up in hurr.

GuRu
14-04-2005, 21:56
Goth culture exists because one day an intelligent person realised that "individuality" is a profitable business.

Same applies to any other pop-culture group.

N'bel
14-04-2005, 22:00
would that include us. "The Nerds"

GuRu
14-04-2005, 22:01
would that include us. "The Nerds"

Depends if you do it for the sake of being considered individual and different than others.

But essentially, yes.

Archaon
14-04-2005, 22:04
I encountered a fair share of goths being a roleplaying gamer and going to some conventions once in a while.

Some of you know the Rpg called Vampire which almost screams Goth Rpg of the century so i see a lot of them around.

My take on this (and yes..me and my friends do make fun of them on occasion):

As already said..sometimes they are made fun of because the wail and moan about everything but outright refuse to do something about it (if possible). The mere mention of them doing something will get you this "You don't understand me and are way below my deepness of character and thought and you will never understand my problems because i'm a creature of the night" look..that's whats funny for me.

I don't have a problem making fun of this but i try not to be in their face while doing it..some decency has to be observed. :D
Another thing thats amusing is their belief about how unique they are and how they totally refuse to be part of the capitalistic and depressing society we're in and how they decide for themselves what's cool and whats not yet they all dress alike, go to the same stores, buy the same style jewelry and listen to the same music but they don't realize how they each look alike. It's the same as Britney or XTina fans who hang posters in their rooms and buy the clothes they wear but are despised by Goths because they follow a certain style and are unable to be more deep or unique (as opposed to them).

As to the hotness of Goth chicks..yes, many are simply not built to wear the mostly bodytight, corsage-style clothes the women in this group prefer. I've seen quite some ugly, overweight goth women (not that overweight automatically means ugly) as i've seen some "normally" built women and some real hot girls who'll simply blow you away and let's you dream of some very nasty stuff (sadly, these hotties are a very tiny minority).

neXus6
14-04-2005, 22:15
By the way, chavs are wiggers for all of you americans up in hurr.

No they are not. True they both wear heaps of gold, but the comparison ends there. Chavs wear burberry while Wiggers wear fubu and that kind of crap and pretend to be black.

Minister
14-04-2005, 22:58
As indeed do a great many of the Ned sub-breeds. They are a highly adaptable lot, Neds.

L6FR_BH_FKR
14-04-2005, 23:12
normal? I reckon there isn't one normal person in the world.



If you want I can prove to you that actually every person in the world is exactly the same, has the same potential but just spin different lies.

arxhon
14-04-2005, 23:25
. Also, are they reverse vampires or something?

He's got a really high Fortitude score. ;)

taer
14-04-2005, 23:33
If you want I can prove to you that actually every person in the world is exactly the same, has the same potential but just spin different lies.

You are quite wrong, sir (no matter what Hobbes, or the rest of those blinking contract theorists want to beleive). Genetic mutation, physical forces dependent on location, point in time, etc. direction and speed of particles (atoms) in motion, and various other crap all play it out so...well, no where not all equal at a fundamental level.

Nid
14-04-2005, 23:48
About the all the same: How many of you losers wear blue jeans and a T shirt? You ********** hypocrites, bashing us for how we look alike.

I don't shop at hot topic. I buy my own, no name, black clothing, because its what I want to wear. I decorate them as I see fit. No one looks 'exactly' like me because I make my own ****.

You all look alike because you wear socks. Usually. You all are alike because you wear shirts. You all can go and bite my black wearing ass, because as far as I'm concerned you obviously have not had personal experience with the sub culture, or you wouldnt be making such generalizations.

There are idiots and groupies in every sub group. Stop the hypocrisy!

arxhon
15-04-2005, 00:09
I've been gother than you since 1991, nid. ;)

m1s1n
15-04-2005, 00:10
I agree with nid.
I've never dressed as a goth, but some of my friends in high school (some 6+ years ago) were goths. It really doesn't affect me much if some people want to dress in red and enact harmless rituals. They want to identify themselves a certain way--just as I distinguish myself as a working class stiff-college student. Don't be concerned with the generalized look and label--just worry about the person.

However, on a totally professional note--those pictures are god-awful. First--rule of thirds, don't have your subjects centered. Next, rule of closure--don't cut your subjects at natural joints--go just above or below. The background is totally static, and the subjects would look better if they did not look at the camera. Additionally everything feels staged--have your subjects actually move--then take the pictures. You will get more interesting vectors and tension lines when the subjects are not anticipating the shutter. Anyway, I only make the comments because someone on the blog thought they were good pictures. The skin tones are also a little washed out--probably from a flash.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
15-04-2005, 00:53
Okay i wear a decent amount of black, too. But that doesnt make me a goth. Also, nid, you seem like a cool guy now that i have kind of goten to know you so i wouldnt mind hanging out with you in real life, its just all the goths i have met are ******* weirdos who just stick to themselves and dont even talk to other people outside their "clique"

Oh yeah and chavs are pretty much rich wiggers....rich wigger wear burberry, have tons of bling, some even get gold tooth cove thingies, etc. They fit the bill perfectly for a "chav"

L6FR_BH_FKR
15-04-2005, 01:59
You are quite wrong, sir (no matter what Hobbes, or the rest of those blinking contract theorists want to beleive). Genetic mutation, physical forces dependent on location, point in time, etc. direction and speed of particles (atoms) in motion, and various other crap all play it out so...well, no where not all equal at a fundamental level.

Since we're not talking in physical terms but mental ones (because we're talking about goth attitude and not their bodies) we ARE all the same but not equal. (of course if we were talking about our bodies you would be correct and I would agree with you). Tonight (i.e in about 8 hours) I'll post about why I'm right.

Sojourner
15-04-2005, 15:15
Most people have huge misperceptions about goths.

Goth isn't vampirism
Goth isn't nihilism
Goth isn't self harm
Goth isn't about being an outcast
Goth isn't about fitting in
Goth isn't about fashion
Goth isn't elitism
Goth isn't occultism
Goth isn't satanism

The only thing that goth is and has ever been is about the goth rock genre of music. Siouxsie and the Banshees. Sisters of Mercy. Nick Cave. Joy Division. The fact that the subculture that tend to identify with this kind of stuff have a noticeable look and attitude is an accessory, not the number of the beast.

And for the record, I'm not. I can't stand goth music. I just respect the attitude of the people 'in' it - and think the fashion looks quite spiffy. Put me down as a metalhead.

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 15:27
... as far as I'm concerned you obviously have not had personal experience with the sub culture, or you wouldnt be making such generalizations.
You know that "sub-" means below? So you're saying that you're lower than the normal culture?

See, if you'd just said "culture" I would have let it fly... But you didn't. You had to try and get cool and different so you jammed a totally dud prefix in front of a perfectly capable word, but you didn't get it right. That's what annoys me with people like goths (rappers, chivs?, skaters etc) - they all try and make other people think they're superior because of their (ahem) uniqueness. They end up making fools of themselves.

I'm mates with a goth - he wears black, but he's past the makeup and spikes thing. He was a goth back when the word was first used, and he's quite happy to admit that as soon as it got categorised like that, it lost all meaning.

I agree with you (and the others) on the whole 'peer group' rant. People grab a clique with both hands and won't let go. But is it really worth wearing black shirts, black knee-high boots, black trenchcoats and black jeans in the middle of summer? Even in winter, that'd still be hot. And don't get me started on the makeup thing... Oh god. There are better ways of being in a group.

And if you want me to go without pants then stand back, because there will be much swooning of girls when they catch sight of my awesome package...

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 15:29
Nick Cave?! As in Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds?

Crikey, I need to get me some black clothes...

Wez
15-04-2005, 15:36
About the all the same: How many of you losers wear blue jeans and a T shirt? You ********** hypocrites, bashing us for how we look alike.
So long as they don't claim to be different, they're not being hypocritical.

But yes, there's lots of false generalisations being made.


You all can go and bite my black wearing ass, because as far as I'm concerned you obviously have not had personal experience with the sub culture, or you wouldnt be making such generalizations.

But when you make a generalisation it's ok? :rolleyes:


Stop the hypocrisy!
Goes both ways.


Oh yeah and chavs are pretty much rich wiggers....rich wigger wear burberry, have tons of bling, some even get gold tooth cove thingies, etc. They fit the bill perfectly for a "chav"

Wigger= white guy pretending to be a black 'gangsta'.

Chavs are not the same as wiggers. Can you imagine a BNP-supporting chav trying ot be a wigger? Then there's black chavs. How can a black chav be a wigger?


Every single goth girl i have ever seen is ugly as ****,
Meet more 'goths' then? Inevitably though, an 'ugly' person (much unlike anyone on Portent I'm sure :rolleyes: ) wearing skimpy goth clothing is likely to seem even more unattractive due to exposing themselves too much.

-Wez

Sojourner
15-04-2005, 15:37
'Goth' is a 'sub'-culture of 'Alternative'

This here is your hat, pullsyjr. Open wide.

Lord Lucifer
15-04-2005, 15:42
When smug people contradict themselves I'm inclined to make fun of them.

When goths try so desperately hard to be different in pretty much the same way, and then tell you how different they are in a sense of superiority, I laugh.
I do not laugh at goths who do not do such things as to warrant mockery.
If you want to listen to The Cure, wear black, or pale make up, whatever floats your boat.

But if you want to identify with a trend and then assume that makes you any better than anyone else, you become fair game.

Simple as that

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 15:42
So that's where my hat went...

Still stand by my previous comments though. You've just clarified that it's beneath the 'Alternative' culture.

That last rant wasn't aimed in particular at Tryanid05; it was a (gasp!) sweeping generalisation about the way everyone tries to assert their individuality by doing what amounts to some weird stuff that everyone else in their group is doing.

Wez
15-04-2005, 15:55
Still stand by my previous comments though. You've just clarified that it's beneath the 'Alternative' culture.

Sub-culture, as in a denomination of the alternative culture, not as in below the 'alternative' culture.

It is a word (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sub-culture).

-Wez

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 16:10
And this is a string of words...


See, if you'd just said "culture" I would have let it fly... But you didn't. You had to try and get cool and different so you jammed a totally dud prefix in front of a perfectly capable word...
And if you want to get even further into it, then I'm sure the goths out there would like to assert their distinctive (!) differences to the rest of the 'alternative' crowd. I bet any money that they'd claim that they shouldn't be lumped under that (for want of a better phrase) 'upper category' as it's too different.

Then you can start to try and identify what makes them alternative... Because they don't do mainstream stuff? Who does? Definitely not wargamers. Not the surfers, nor the skaters. Not the "gangsta's" or the grunge. Not Kasparov and his chess playing mates. Not the geeks cloistered around their computer screens. Not ma & pa and their line dancing group.

Hang on - I'm running out of people here. Is there a real alternative? It certainly doesn't look like it because we all have different behavioural patterns/likes/dislikes. But the media make up these stupid terms and to try and enhance their individuality, the people in the groups grab it to use against those that might look at them strange.

So by grabbing the phrase 'sub-culture', the people that use the phrase are effectively pandering to the whim of those they swear they are against (dislike/better than/whatever).

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 16:11
If you really want, I can compare goths to bacteria...

sub·cul·ture (shttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ubreve.gifbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ubreve.giflhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifchhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifr)
n. A culture made by transferring to a fresh medium microorganisms from a previous culture.

Scabby
15-04-2005, 17:12
If you're a one in a million kind of guy there are 6,000 others JUST LIKE YOU!

Yes I have seen smoking hot goth chicks but, like anything else, they are the minority.

Inquisitor Engel
15-04-2005, 17:15
If you really want, I can compare goths to bacteria...

sub·cul·ture (shttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ubreve.gifbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifkhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ubreve.giflhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gifchhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifr)
n. A culture made by transferring to a fresh medium microorganisms from a previous culture.
That's exceedingly inflamatory. There are some self-proclaimed Goths here, and whilst most take the starting post with good humour, comparing them to bacteria is a tad over the line.

This is a warning. Do it again and it shall be a strike.

The Portent Inquisition

pullsyjr
15-04-2005, 17:18
It actually wasn't meant to be a personal attack... It was a direct copy from the link that Wez supplied. Humourous irony is the key there methinks. I suppose if I used a smilie of some sort, then it would have been clearer. I just don't like using them - they make a mockery of the written language.

Apologies for those that found that line offensive. None was intended.

Nid
15-04-2005, 18:49
Seeing as a few pages have gone by, I'll just clarify a few things.

Arxhon: I never proclaimed to be gothier than anyone ;) As of late my friends in real life have decided I am a Goth, and so I just stick to that even though I consider myself more of a metalhead. In my opinion there is a distinct difference.

And as to Individuality? I make my own path. I wear the clothes I wear because I like them. Large boots, even when worn under full length pants, make me feel a little stronger. Odd I know, but I have a thing for boots... I do not wear black because 'my friends wear it.' I know personally only an extremely small handful of people who are even similar to me. I didn't do this out of some sort of need to 'not fit in in order to fit in more' attitude people seem to think my kind have. It makes me angry.

To the person who felt the need to analyze my post sentence by sentence. I don't really care what you think. Thats kind of why I typed it. Feelings are feelings, even if you don't always manage to word out perfectly clear what you intend with no loopholes for the incredibly bored to pick apart.

And wearing black in the summer ain't so bad :p I usually feel cold all the time, and not in an emotional way. I mean physically cold. The black helps me warm up faster :)

Wez
15-04-2005, 19:10
To the person who felt the need to analyze my post sentence by sentence. I don't really care what you think. Thats kind of why I typed it. Feelings are feelings, even if you don't always manage to word out perfectly clear what you intend with no loopholes for the incredibly bored to pick apart.

My apologies for using logic.

You call people hypocrites and complain they make generalisations, while you yourself make generalisations. What do you expect?

-Wez

Shadowheart
15-04-2005, 19:10
As far as I've been able to acertain, goth is a kind of geekdom. The self-proclaimed subculture as a whole is exceedingly elitist and self-absorbed, much like your Trekkies, miniature wargamers and what have you. There's way more to goth than anyone who isn't one would care to know. They've got their old school goths like we have our Rogue Trader fans, they've got people that miss the point of being goth like we have power gamers and I'm quite sure they complain about the kiddies giving them a bad name (as if) as we do.

I should think that if it weren't for their outward appearance, goths would be about as controversial as Tyranid players, because hardly anyone would notice them. Generally, nobody cares how deep and dark your poetry is, or what wargear you've given your Chaplain. Maybe if we'd go out looking like characters from a John Blanche painting, we'd catch the same flak.

Personally I like goths fine, as far as such groups go they're very decent. Maybe if I hadn't grown up in a town where growing my hair was enough to catch everyone's attention, I'd have gotten into the local goth scene. We just didn't have one. I even concidered going goth by way of finding good company, but the music which is supposedly the heart of the whole thing was quite disappointing. Besides that it seems most goths (like most geeks) take themselves a trifle too seriously, whereas in my mind the doom and gloom thing needs to be accompanied by a large dose of irony and humour.

And true, most people trying to look like goths (where a true goth would likely argue that looks have nothing to do with being goth, which I find very ironic indeed) don't end up looking very appealing. I think that's because most people naturally don't look very appealing, and most people don't have much taste either, and a greater lack of confidence than any amount of make-up can cover up. I'm not sure about the ideal to which goth wannabe chicks seem to aspire, on one hand I admit I find it quite appealing, on the other hand I think it'd get old real soon if a girl looked like that all the time. I'd say it's always better to let natural charm do most of the work, but then not everyone has enough of that.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
15-04-2005, 19:12
I wear a lot of black as well, and im a skater, but i dont do it to fit in, i do it caue black t-shirts are so damn cool. There is no reason to get angry at eachother just because we are different, we are all just stating what we have seen and experience personally. When a company takes a poll of 300 people, they are doing the same thing we are doing right now, which is think that these 300 people represent the rest of the people so others can identfy with them. Thats what we are doing, when we notice the group of goths at our school and they are all ugly and i personally have never seen a hott goth, so i automatically go and make the assumption that there are not hott goths because i have never seen any.

Justicar Jacob
15-04-2005, 22:08
Most of the Goth Kids at my school are fat or animie lovers who are really mad at their parents. They also seem to be constantly mad or depressed. I'd classify as a metal head. (Not Mettalica. More like Kataklysm and Arch Enemy, that kind of metal) They wear black, get mad at everything, and call everyone conformists and wanna be's. I don't understand the conformist thing, we're all conforming at one point or another. When we breath we conform to our body, when we buy something we conform to our wants or needs (food, clothes) and so on. If you dont breath then your conforoming to you want to not conform. They think the listen to the extreme of everything when they only listen to linkin park and Emo. They also think they have it horrible in the world when they probley never actually been deprived of food or abused or anything. They seem to think they have the worst parents of them all when what they describe to me is normal parent behavior. (wants them to clean their room, tell them they can't stay out past 10pm, they dont want them hurting animals and so on) That's how they are at my school. I don't like them. To be around them is nosiataing. I'm sure thier parents can't be all that bad, they give thier goth kids the money to buy all that expensive stuff at hot topic.

Rabid Bunny 666
15-04-2005, 22:27
no goths at my school, but htey do seem a bit whiney

and in the MM video for tainted love, the girl who goes goth in the toilet is HoT

i regularly get called "emo boy" and "goth" because of my hair (moplike) and it really p****s me off because i don't want to be unique or whine about normal things and i don't even like gothic music (bar MM) and dislike emo music intensely as well as that new style of pop rock (my term for it) like the killers or keane as i think, although the guitarwork is good, it doesn't fit in to what i was brought up believing guitar music to be like and the fact that bands like busted and mcfly are abysmal IMHO and only really appeal to the younger generations.

also, people saying that grunge/heavy metal is rubbish is just pointless. i mean, its a matter of opinion, i don't like garage/rap music as it seems the same to me, but grunge/heavy metal music probably seems the same to them.
and if they keep on going on about how rubbish my taste inm music is, it doesn't matter as i still think its better than garage/rap and the attitude people take depending on their taste in music, especially chavs/wigger or whatever they're known as being tarred with the stereotypical "chav" personality. some of my friends are slightly chavvish, but don't mind my taste in music and are generally good people. metalheads/grungers/goths being tarred with the depressed and odd personality that i have been accused of being. i have never in memory been depressed about something and having the p**s taken out of me because of my hair, t-shirts with band names on and my baggy jeans really annoys me as i like wearing them and they are a darn sight better than colostomy pants and pale hoodies.

thats the rant over

how many emos does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
none, they prefer to sit in the dark and cry

Ass Goblin
16-04-2005, 00:38
I been called a goth from a few of my friends even though i'm a Metalhead. I think the general community sees someone wearing all black and instantly calles them a goth. Also goth's always seem depressed about something but i've never actually understood why. They have heaps of goth friends. They don't have to put up with people sitting next to them on busses and stuff as most people seem to be horrified by them. The only thing I can think that makes them depressed is that the make up runs or there black clothes are fading. I sure know that makes me sad :( (The clothes not the make-up)

anarchistica
16-04-2005, 00:54
How is the skinny guy overpowering the fat lady? I can at least understand why he wants to kill her though. Also, are they reverse vampires or something? It's soooo sunny and nice out. They should be playing frisbee or something instead of sitting around brooding.
LOL! Dude, you're killing me. :D

I've known a couple of goths, though they aren't nearly as common here as in the UK. Most of them are just cool, but some are silly. Those are Wiccans with their spells, or those who point out the pentagram on your necklace is upside down and that you shouldn't wear it because it belongs to a certain group of whatever idiots.


Most people have huge misperceptions about goths.

The only thing that goth is and has ever been is about the goth rock genre of music. Siouxsie and the Banshees. Sisters of Mercy. Nick Cave. Joy Division. The fact that the subculture that tend to identify with this kind of stuff have a noticeable look and attitude is an accessory, not the number of the beast.
Pfft. The only thing that is and has ever been goth is the North-European style of architecture. :p

Getz
16-04-2005, 02:06
Pfft. The only thing that is and has ever been goth is the North-European style of architecture. :p

And the tribes from Germany who paralysed the Roman Empire, let's not forget them.

I went out with a Goth chick once, she was quite pretty and one of those oh-so-rare Perky Goths too...

Mmmm, Perky... *loses self in nostalgic haze for a while* :D

Then two years later the Bitch boke my heart and now lives with her ex. :mad:

Not that I'm damaged in any way.. ;)

JP/AT
16-04-2005, 02:15
I am Goth/Metalhead...

Depressed? No more than "Normal Peons"...
Suicidal? Only on Mondays :)...

A Stereotype sticks to us and we are branded... I would delve into my hatred for Chavs but thats another thread :)

taer
16-04-2005, 02:17
Since we're not talking in physical terms but mental ones (because we're talking about goth attitude and not their bodies) we ARE all the same but not equal. (of course if we were talking about our bodies you would be correct and I would agree with you). Tonight (i.e in about 8 hours) I'll post about why I'm right.

This is of course assuming that our mental faculties are from somewhere outside of the real of the physical (so meta-physic I take it?), or you don't consider the extremes, such as impartial brain growth, lack of certain glands that serve to facilitate mental functions, damage, nerosis, and countless other such things? So are we only talking overall averages here, or do you deny the existance of variation in mental powers (which, speaking scientifically, are a function of our physical shells. And in a great many philosophies as well)?

Rabid Bunny 666
16-04-2005, 02:44
A Stereotype sticks to us and we are branded... I would delve into my hatred for Chavs but thats another thread :)

naa, just join in, its fun to let out your anger :D

Hymirl
16-04-2005, 22:05
and for your information i am not rascist and i have plenty of black friends who i dont think of as criminals.

Go back, actually read my post and then try again. This time remember to notice the words "I dought they're go around saying" indicating that you wouldn't say this, while you're happy to be an utter hypocrite and 'hate' a different section of society.
(Aside yes, I know the quote ought to be "..they'd go around.." before anyone tells me..)


Then you can start to try and identify what makes them alternative... Because they don't do mainstream stuff? Who does? Definitely not wargamers. Not the surfers, nor the skaters. Not the "gangsta's" or the grunge. Not Kasparov and his chess playing mates. Not the geeks cloistered around their computer screens. Not ma & pa and their line dancing group.

Hmm, yet another valueble point. Next you're going to have a rant over why Soul is called soul, why is rap rap when no-one knocks on any wood, your mums disco music doesn't make a good frissbee and so on? :rolleyes:

While I've pretty much given up my (admitted not so 'deep and misunderstod')goth days I'd still say I listen to 'alternative' music, not because I think i'm different to everyone else who isn't in to pop music but because thats the name of the section I find it in at music shops; its not exacly a complex idea is it.
Hymirl.

arxhon
16-04-2005, 23:53
stuff


Looks like somebody forgot to brood! :p

Now, despite the popularity it has on the net, fisking (line-by-line rebuttals where "facts" are dropped like radar chaff) is not conducive to rational debate or building a coherent argument.

Stop fisking and start being coherent.

Please note i never said that goths should get made fun of, i was merely pointing out why in the hopes of getting a cheap laugh (a pretty poor motivation, imo, but hey, at least i'm honest enough to admit it).

Since this thread is degenerating into a silly flamewar about, oh, jeez, all kinds of semi-coherent lunacy, i'm considering having it locked.



black t-shirts are so damn cool.

And i agree. :)

VanHel
17-04-2005, 04:38
I've known several goths, and been called one of these "perky goths" of legend. Of all the goths that I've known, only one was a tard. The others are pretty cool. In fact, one of them is one of my best friends.

Beefstick
17-04-2005, 05:04
I once experimented in "Gothism" and found it to be too depressing. I'm sorry, but guys wearing lace and makeup comes too close to going in drag or being some sort of really messed up clown. I'm sure that most of you remember the Saturday Night Live sketch called 'Goth Talk'. I can't help but feel that was too true. I think we all agree that full length leather trench coats are cool, but I don't think it's a lifestyle. It's fun to scare close minded people, but the costuming and moping are a lot of work and too much work can lead to depression. Besides, being really goth cuts out a lot other fun stuff like birthday parties, swimming at the beach, and reggae music. :D

grizzly ruin
17-04-2005, 06:14
How is the skinny guy overpowering the fat lady? I can at least understand why he wants to kill her though. Also, are they reverse vampires or something? It's soooo sunny and nice out. They should be playing frisbee or something instead of sitting around brooding.

Very Funny.


He's got a really high Fortitude score.

Also very funny.


I'm sorry, but guys wearing lace and makeup comes too close to going in drag or being some sort of really messed up clown.

Just too damn funny.



And for the record, those pictures are of very sad people goth or otherwise.

Wiseman
17-04-2005, 07:37
goths are made fun of if they are stupid:rolleyes:

arxhon
17-04-2005, 08:17
Also very funny.


At least somebody got it. :D

mean stuff


dude, you may want to edit that before the mods find it.

Opus T. Penguin
17-04-2005, 08:32
I just want to know why they think this should be made into a movie :rolleyes: (I really need the "wtf?" smiley here, but it's no longer available)

My second thought was "My gawd it's dull in Idaho" (check the user profile)

<Ahem> Anyway, I've know a lot of Goths over the years. For most of them, it's always essentially been about the music and a big F---Y-- to corporate culture (as it were). I just don't see a problem with that.

Tenoch
17-04-2005, 14:30
OK I'm considered by many as a Goth, have Goth acquaintances, a Goth girlfriend and I enjoy Goth music. I suppose that makes me qualified to make my opinion on this subject known.

As far as I can see, the goth camp is currently dwelling in "no-one understands me/******* Off!" etc. While the non goth camp is repetively rehashing the same arguments of "You all look the same" and "You are silly because I know silly people who look like you".

All of these kinds of statements make you look retarded, but then it's the internet so I guess that's forgivable.

As far as I can see Goths somewhat bring criticism on them selves by calling themselves goths and then objecting to it when someone else calls themself a goth, and you are both immediately tarred with the same brush. So just don't call yourself a goth, be intelligent and use words with an actual pertinent meaning when describing yourself.

And as for the other camp, how about being a little less close minded. If people do things because they enjoy it, and it doesn't hurt anyone, thenlet them. Also realise that people are different and just because someone likes a similar type of music or dresses a bit similar to someone else it doesn't make them the same person.

Remember kids: "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; Regardless of who wins your still retarded"

Inquisitor Engel
17-04-2005, 18:15
goths are made fun of if they are stupid:rolleyes:
Well, I guess amnesty and loss of strikes didn't encourage everyone to be nice. Oh well, the posters we've gained back in return are worth far more than those who simply ignore the rules again.

Strike 1.

The Portent Inquisition

Riddy
17-04-2005, 19:45
Well, I guess amnesty and loss of strikes didn't encourage everyone to be nice. Oh well, the posters we've gained back in return are worth far more than those who simply ignore the rules again.

Strike 1.

The Portent Inquisition

Ok, now i dont see why that strike was necessary, saying people make fun of goths if they are stupid isn't exactly insulting anyone, hell its exactly the same as me saying people make fun of portentees if they are stupid, which is perfectly true.

Right, i think i better add to the thread now. In my home town it is very easy to see several different stereotype groups, there are the neds/chavs, the goths, the punks and the skaters/stoners. Now as a general rule the latter 3 hate the 1st and vice versa. As i fit somewhere inbetween the last two i know a large amout of goths and as a general rule they are usually these legendary "perky goths" and most of them are smart (well compared to the neds, i got this exact line shouted at me yesterday night: "I'm going to kill you and bury you alive" real smart :rolleyes: ) there are also a few neds in this town i get along with, so they are not all bad. I dont know if its just here or if this is widespread but the stereotypes of goths being whiney, neds being violent and thick, skaters being dicks and stoners being wasters just doesn't apply here.

P.S: goth chicks are hot

Wez
17-04-2005, 19:54
Ok, now i dont see why that strike was necessary, saying people make fun of goths if they are stupid isn't exactly insulting anyone, hell its exactly the same as me saying people make fun of portentees if they are stupid, which is perfectly true.
I reported the post.

It originally said:
goths are made fun of because they are stupid:rolleyes:

Luci changed it (look at the "last edited by...").

I believe Diddimz got banned from the last Portent for similar stuff.

-Wez