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View Full Version : Big game against empire today, looking for tactics



Malorian
28-11-2007, 14:47
This was a game I was suppose to have a while ago and had been deplayed until now. It's 5000 ogres (me) vs 5000 empire on a 4X8 board made up to be like a mountain pass.

Basically I'm trying to break through the pass so I setup first, then he does and we roll off for first turn. Any units I get off his deployment edge are worth extra VCs equal to what they are actually worth.

At 5000 I'm using EVERY model I own, so other than some gear switch there isn't much I can do. This is what I'm taking: (I have it broken into clans)

Bruiser w/ tenderiser, heavy armor, sword gnoblar (extra points)
butcher w/ bangstick
butcher w/ dispell scroll (or maybe cook book)
3X3 ironguts
4x3 bulls w/ extra hand weapon
3x3 bulls
6x20 gnoblars
2 gorgers

skragg
8 gorgers

hunter w/ 2 sabertusks, mawseeker
3 yhetees
2x8 trappers
3 slave giants

tyrant w/ heavy armor, great weapon, deamon scars, +2 magic resist
asb bruiser w/ sword of might, jade lion
10 bulls w/ full command, iron fists, warbanner

My plan is to have the first clan (gnoblars in front of MSU) slowly make there way up while the massive tyrant unit pushes ahead aided by the yhetees and a giant (and maybe sabertusks too). By the time my forces get there the enemy should be busy dealing with the gorgers and my bulls should be able to clean up.

I know that the empire player likes more of a gunline with some large blocks of knights. He'll be taking kurt helberg (or whatever) and I'm pretty sure him and a unit of knights will hit my tyrant's unit and bouce right off. He'll have a lot of warmachines and a shiny new rocket battery (which could really kill off my gnoblar screen quickly). He also is trying out his new units of fanatics.

Unfortunately since he is setting up after me I'll be reacting to him rather than the other way around, but I think the gorgers will really mix him up and allow me to get to him.

Is there a different tactic you think I should try in general?
Any gear I should switch?
Units I should pair up?
Empire tactics I should avoid?

warlord hack'a
28-11-2007, 21:34
since you will be setting up first (which sucks as deployemnt wins you half the game), make sure that :
1) he can not deduct anything form your setup: place you gnoblars in the middle (as they are slwo) and ogres on both flanks, then during the gam ewhile you run towards him you have the option of moving all your ogres to the left flank, the right flank or the centre of the board. Just ignore the gnoblars, like you said the ogres must do the work in this case (or actually, the gorgers must do the work).
2) set up your characters so that no matter where he puts his warmachine he will not have LOS right away

Also, I would split up the big unit of bulls but that is just me, Ogres rule when MSU..

Helgrund
28-11-2007, 21:47
ok, Im not an ogre player but I've played with empire for four years now.

As this is a breakthrough engagement, its going to be slightly odd. The closer you get to his troops the better as he will not risk hitting his own troops as helstorms are very unpredictable. Once you are in combat he cant shoot you.Then he has lots of knights which are fast?!

Kurt helborg is quite a beast as he auto wounds, ignores armour saves at WS7 and causes reiksguard units he joins to become immune to psych and stubborn! If he is with a large IC unit, they will be a very very hard tarpit. I dont think you can/want to avoid it so throw some of your best units at it with a giant.

If he is using flaggelents then take them on if they are a small unit but maybe avoid them if they are big. They are unbreakable but expensive at only T3 with no armour and he may sac them for bonus. A decent unit maybe able to wipe them out in a long combat.

Malorian
28-11-2007, 21:51
Sorry ya, flaggelents, not fanatics ; )

Usually i take the big unit for fun, but I think in this game it will be an unstoppable mass that will plow through him and gain me a lot of points.

Sunfang
28-11-2007, 22:44
I havnt had much experience with Ogres.

Good Luck though.

Shank
29-11-2007, 03:10
Empire infantry does very little against Ogres. Ogres with their (average) S4 3A sweep aside any infantry the Empire has to offer. If I know I am playing Ogres, I build my army around Knights, Cannons, Tanks and guns. Inner Circle Knights put a big hurt on Ogres. Cannons with d6 wounds make a mess. And Tanks for the manuverablity and high toughness. Not to mention the ubsurd amount of impact hits it can do. Also, at 5000 points, watch out for Karl Franz on a Dragon. Ghal Maras (his hammer, all hits wound no armor save, d3 wounds) is a Ogre Destroyer.

Malorian
29-11-2007, 05:40
So I finally got to play that 5000 ogres vs 5000 empire. I'm sure you guys know my list, but his was something like:



kurt helberg *in unit of 9 knights full command*

grand templar *in unit of knights full command*

lvl 4 mage

lvl 4 mage

lvl 2 mage

warrior priest

hero knight on horse with character killing gear

master enginer



2X 20 flagellants (or whatever)

20 halberds full command

20 spears full command

25 spears full command, griffin banner

2X 10 hand gunners

10 crossbowmen

5 cross bowmen (detachment of spearmen)

3 cannons

2 hellblasters

1 rocket battery

steam tank



So very shooty and magic heavy with 2 big units of knights



He got first turn



Highlights:

-ironlions (1000 point ogre unit) along with a butcher and giant fought the kurt helberg unit, but after a could of rounds of combat, and a unit of flagellants hitting my rear, I fled and he caught me. although I had lost half my unit by the time I got to fight.

-his character killer tried to charge skrag, failed his terror test and fled into impassable terrain

-my tenderiser bruiser and a unit charge the steam tank only to find that since I cause impact hits, I also take damage and do more to myself than I do to the tank. I run and rally, but when my bruiser tries to charge again he fails his fear test and when he if then forced to flee a unit of knights he runs 11 and off the board

-hunter (with mawseeker: +1 toughness and stupid) misses with spear, then fails stupidity twice before being charged and killed

-I charged his 4 ironguts with full command with my 3 ironguts, and I kill 2 ogres, he does 1 wound and runs and I catch him ;)



Basically the game was me getting creamed on the first turn, then his second turn he didn't kill too much, then my gorgers started coming on and killing off his artillery. Slowly his boss unit killed my iron lions, but while that was happening I slowly was wiping out his weak units and avoiding his tough ones, and then in the last turns I killed off some of his tougher units. And I ended with skrag making it off his board edge to earn me an extra 400 victory points.



So I won with a solid victory, but my ironlions had been defeated so it was bitter sweet...



His MVP: Kurt Helberg

His most hated unit: Gorgers



My MVP: Gorgers

Most hated unit: Kurt Helberg



(Guess it makes sense that these are opposite)

Shank
29-11-2007, 12:27
See, he took too much infantry. Spearmen, halbediers even Flagellants will do very little against Ogres. Orges will get the charge, do impact hits, then they attack and sweep aside the Empire. He needed more knights and in 5000 points, more Tanks!!

Malorian
29-11-2007, 15:38
His flagellants didn't do too bad. They saved him in the one combat, and then tied up one of ogre units. I only got out of that one with really good rolls.

I actually think he could have done better with more infantry. I can handle shooting and warmachines, but several infantry units setup with detachments are deadly.

Shank
29-11-2007, 22:42
Oh admitt it. You loved watching your Ogres swat little Empire soldiers all over the field. That is why you wanted him to have more infantry. More for your Ogres to munch on!
But seriously, More Empire Infantry would not have helped him. Ogres will almost always get the charge with 12inch's. Will for the most part, do well with impact hits. The Empire's low toughness and armor save means they will die in droves when the Ogres attack. Not to mention, with a 7 leadership, Fear is a big issue.
Ogres own Flagellants in close combat. You must have rolled really, really bad. But with a 2WS and 3T, Ogres hit and wound on 3's. Now if they have great weapons or extra handweapons forget it. The flagellants may slow you down for 2 turns.
I have played against Ogres many times. When I win, it is with lots of calvary, cannons, tanks and guns.
PS If you thought Kurt Helborg was bad, be thankful he left Karl at Home!!