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Serraphim
28-11-2007, 19:52
I tried searching for it and I couldn't find an answer, but in some of the posts that I've been reading, they mention that GW dice roll low due to the way that they are made. Can anyone explain that to me please?

Gaius_Baltar
28-11-2007, 20:02
Just a theory. But I'd say because the moulds to make them have the 1 on top of the mould. Thus any snall air bubbles thet get trapped in it durring the coulding, would rise up closer to the side with the 1.

blongbling
28-11-2007, 21:58
GW dice roll just the same as any other dice.....

Gaebriel
28-11-2007, 22:18
Except my red ones, they roll crappy - on the other hand my black ones are murder, and the white ones are somewhere inbetween...

Ravenous
28-11-2007, 22:21
Try searching again there is a great thread where an Engineering teacher took a bunch of dice (GW, Chessex, Casino) and found that both GW dice and Chessex dice roll more 1s then they should (23% I believe, should be 17%).

selfconstrukt
28-11-2007, 22:22
Gw dice have a small RFID chip implanted in them, so any army being promoted in White Dwarf with current releases will roll the best numbers when needed, thus garnering more interest in the new models and this (hopefully)results in more sales.

Just kidding, but GW does not make their own dice, they get them (can't remember the other company's name) pre-made and just pack them up.

Purgator Sovereign
28-11-2007, 22:34
Bomb The Other Company! They Are Saboteurs!

Ravenous
28-11-2007, 22:49
If you want good balanced dice just look for the following:

-Clear with no visible bubbles or cracks.
-Squared edges
-Painted pips (the dots) not drilled.

The only kind of dice that have all these qualities are casino dice, and they go for $5 each usually. So if you really really want a 6% inprovement, go with those.

Agrip. Varenus Denter
29-11-2007, 05:04
Try searching again there is a great thread where an Engineering teacher took a bunch of dice (GW, Chessex, Casino) and found that both GW dice and Chessex dice roll more 1s then they should (23% I believe, should be 17%).

OMG - that just made my day, Rav... I've got a math class that is going to get this project from me after the holidays. I've got more darn dice than some people have blades of grass in their yard.

dancingmonkey
29-11-2007, 09:02
its always an interesting one.

My GW black dice roll abysmally, so I bought some clear purple (an oxymoron?) for my Dark Elves, they too roll super bad!

I think its me. I hold the record for 17 ones in a row during a game of LOTR, statistically long odds,

By comparison my Cryx die normally roll well, (once I realised the dragon was six not one, doh!) Although they were not so hot in a recent tournament.

My red/blue mix (for my altdorf army) seem to be ok, but I haven't used the army for a while.

Is this psychological thing, probably. Do we attactch a lot of significance to it? Hell yes! People have been known to bin whole dice packs if they are percieved to be low rollers!

lord_blackfang
29-11-2007, 09:17
Here's the thread:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65531

blongbling
29-11-2007, 10:22
if you are rolling lots of low numbers it is because your sacrifice to the Dice Gods wasnt enough

Cactusman
29-11-2007, 13:32
I canīt answer that question, except to say that whenever I need to roll anything but a 1 I will always ALWAYS roll a 1.... and I have an oppopnent who shouts at my dice before I roll them in the hope that he can scare them into rolling low.

It doesnīt work.

EvC
29-11-2007, 15:46
I've only ever seen one person using the new GW Warhammer dice with the hammer of Sigmar on them, but by god, his was the very worst rolling I've ever seen. He'd roll maybe 8 dice in one go, and if only 3 of them came up as 1s, we were pleased.

squiggoth
29-11-2007, 16:40
GW does not make their own dice, they get them (can't remember the other company's name) pre-made and just pack them up.

GW dice are made by Chessex. I've got several dice sets from them and there seems to be difference in quality per colour; my lime-coloured ones roll far too many 1s, my vomit-coloured ones are average, and the emerald-with-gold-veins roll 6s quite often.
Bought a packet of blue ones for my new Deffskullz army but I haven't tried them yet.

Jedi152
29-11-2007, 16:46
GW dice roll just the same as any other dice.....
I know it's odd, but they don't seem to.

For years (before Portent) my gaming group referred to GW dice as 'cursed dice' and refused to use them.

Now on here it crops up now and again, and i have to admit i have some horrendous rolls using mine. I've rolled 10 and not got any 4+'s - more than once.

Surely with so many separate incidents, you have to start questioning...

blongbling
29-11-2007, 17:55
gw dice arent made by chessex

Nabeshin1106
29-11-2007, 18:04
My tin of GW Dice have been put away do to low rolling.

I have two sets of small Chessex dice, and two sets of large ones, and they tend to roll okay. The best rollers seem to be my clear purple big ones.

Lately, the dice that seem to be rolling the best for me are the Big Gun Dice that came with my Gamer's Edition of Apocalypse. I use them for Table-Edge/Set-Up/First Turn rolls, and they usually do pretty well. And even when they get ones, I get to look at the awesome Mechanicus symbol, so it's not all bad.

Serraphim
29-11-2007, 18:22
I guess its a good thing that I work for a Vegas casino then.

brother malthius
29-11-2007, 18:33
Not to beat a dead horse, but I think this is why games (lots of games, not just GW's) need to review their use of D6s exclusively, particularly when it includes a "roll of one always fails" rule.
I mean, no matter how good you are at something, there's always a 16.7% chance you will fail?

ChaosMaster
29-11-2007, 18:42
Here's the thread:
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65531
That thread is great. Everyone I've pointed to it has seemingly been affected by it and I have seen some of them switch to "casino style dice" since reading it.

I've actually seen the theory in that thread in action shortly after reading it too. Not only have I been rolling more "average" since switching mostly to dice with square corners, but once rolling the rounded corner dice I actually noticed a perceptible pause as one sat on a "6" briefly, then tipped over to another number instead. It really seemed remarkable after having read this article about inertia and round-cornered dice. Every gamer should read that thread. :cool:

selfconstrukt
29-11-2007, 19:40
One of the reasons "casino" dice are so accurate is the numbers painted on them.

In regular dice, the numbers are either "cut out" of the dice, or they are also painted on with cheap paint.

Casino dice are specially weighted from the start, in addition to the paints for each side's number have a different weight.

The paint used to put the number "1" on the dice, weighs the same as all the combined dots for the number "6" and so on.

This ensures each side of the die is weighted identically and favors even, and truly random, rolls.

Buy "casino dice", "gaming" dice are not made as accurately, so your rolls will not be as "random" as they should be.

lord_blackfang
29-11-2007, 19:52
Lately, the dice that seem to be rolling the best for me are the Big Gun Dice

They work well for me, too. Plus it feels really good to roll something that big. I'd buy 20 if I could fit that many in my hands :rolleyes:

Bob5000
29-11-2007, 20:09
So this could be the death of Mathhammer ! see , I told you Mathhammerites that the dice dont care what you state the probabilities are :)

Lorcryst
29-11-2007, 21:51
The small dice found in the starter boxes and the "Battle Dice" tin are indeed made by Chessex (the white, black and red ones, 12mm), but I don't know if their bigger red dice with the hammer on the "1" side are made by Chessex too.

I own over 80 of those 12mm dice, all from various eras of GW starter boxes and battle dice pouches, my friends have bought blocks of 36 Chessex dice, and we've found that no matter what dice you use, it's a matter of luck, NOT plastic ...

I used my friend's dice that rolling sixes all the time and got a string of ones.
On the other hand, one night I was very lucky, and rolled sixes no matter what dice I used : GWs, Chessex, big red GW dice, old wooden dice from a board game, even a dice-shaped plastic storage box (huge thing about 10 inches to a side).

Don't blame the dice.

Ravenous
29-11-2007, 21:58
Lately, the dice that seem to be rolling the best for me are the Big Gun Dice

It probably has a lot to do with the fact they dont actually roll but rather drop.

They are far easier to manipulate then normal dice as well.

ChaosMaster
30-11-2007, 00:08
Amazon.com sells "casino-style" dice in blue, green, red and purple. Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/19mm-Grade-Serialized-Casino-Dice-Blue/dp/B000O5LH4O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1196381566&sr=8-2

Nephilim of Sin
30-11-2007, 14:53
I own over 80 of those 12mm dice, all from various eras of GW starter boxes and battle dice pouches, my friends have bought blocks of 36 Chessex dice, and we've found that no matter what dice you use, it's a matter of luck, NOT plastic ...

Don't blame the dice.


I have to agree. I am sure there is some sort of scientific method involved to calculate the percentages and what not, but it is luck, and how you roll them, that is not taken into account. I have found that almost everyone I know rolls their dice differently. Personally, I like to slam 'em down (after heavy rolling in my hand) so they roll for a sec. Not spin, just roll. If they spin, I did it too hard. Some people I know lightly toss and get better results. But, I do not like the 'open-palm' roll; it seems that way can be manipulated too easily.

That being said, my GW dice rolls are usually horrendous to average while playing fantasy/40k, but when playing AD&D, I have never rolled so many high numbers in my life. :D

brother malthius
30-11-2007, 16:31
Don't blame the dice.

Unless each side is EXACTLY the same distance from the center of mass, in other words, each side has the same weight, there WILL be a tendancy to roll one more side than others. Manufacturing, shape, and density of plastic verses the paint used DOES have an impact. Whether or not it is something that will show up in a noticable amount is open to question, and the deviations can very between negligable and problematic.
Personally, I believe the physics professor and the well designed experiment more than any anecdotal evidence. Although I'm curious to know how he rolled the dice? Was it automated, so they roll the same way every time or was it by hand?

Lorcryst
30-11-2007, 16:35
I don't want to diminish the efforts of that professor, but you'd need several hundreds of thousands of rolls before acheiving statistical significance ... yes, some dice will roll on a certain face more often, but we're talking about a 6% chance here ... in everyday use during our games, with luck and how you roll them factored in, that would mean maybe one roll per game that would be a bit lower than average ... worth loosing hair for that ? Not for me :evilgrin:

de Selby
30-11-2007, 16:56
I tested my GW dice (rolling them in handfuls, just like in a game) and my results were statistically indistinguishable from fair, but distinguishable from the results quoted in that thread. The thread died before we could decide why the difference, but it left me satisfied that there was no need for me to go out and buy more expensive dice.

RavenMorpheus
30-11-2007, 17:41
I drilled holes in my GW dice and put sand in them so they'd roll 9 on 1 D6 :D

I very much doubt that the moulding, material etc. make much of a difference to the laws of probability and to go out and spend excessive Ģ/$ on dice just in the hope of getting better results for wargaming is a bit sad imo.

$5 for 1D6 :wtf:

Casinos doing it, I can understand - there's money involved and the house doesn't want to be losing big time...

astrochimp
30-11-2007, 17:59
I've only ever seen one person using the new GW Warhammer dice with the hammer of Sigmar on them, but by god, his was the very worst rolling I've ever seen. He'd roll maybe 8 dice in one go, and if only 3 of them came up as 1s, we were pleased.

I think they are cursed. I almost always roll 1's with those.

I recently got green dice for my O&G army and now I always roll
high. It's Waaagh magic. :p

Wyatt
30-11-2007, 20:02
This isn't very scientific but I rolled the 60 GW D6 I own and got:

8 x 1
11 x 2
9 x 3
10x 4
10x 5
9 x 6

The conclusion? I have 3 dice missing. :)

Angry Lawyer
30-11-2007, 21:01
Funny, I'd have thought that due to less plastic in the six face that the centre of gravity would be slightly closer to the one, and therefore the dice weighted towards the six.

-Angry Lawyer

SquishySquig
30-11-2007, 21:11
The conclusion? I have 3 dice missing. :)

:skull:

I like your conclusion. ;)

Anyway the Big Gun dice have been screwing me so far, but I haven't used them with the big guns yet so maybe that's why, that or the fact that they know I'm a filthy xeno player, I don't know.

However for all the times I get a series of crappy rolls I end up with an equal amount of awesome rolls. One game out of 30 shoota shots 23 hit (with orks remember) they were in the ammo dump and I got to roll the 7 that missed and I got 5 more hits! Yep it's anecdotal, but I thought it was cool when it happened and it illustrates the point that sometimes crap happens and sometimes awesome happens. It's just that usually we feel the crappy results more so they stand out a bit. :skull:

fwacho
30-11-2007, 21:22
Yade's thread has been linked to previously I think. as far as thread necomnacy goes it should never be killed. very inciteful. but Ravenous was correct in what to look for in statistically average dice. rolling on a soft surface (ie felt) also helps somewhat. my own tests on a felt table revealed my chessex dice to be negligable statistically.

Borther malthus... The dice were "rolled" in a clear, smallish, plastic containers with 10 compartments. They were shaken and set down, then recorded by the lab assistant. Key here is a hard rolling surface which allowed defects to be more pronounced.

on a side note. however, sometimes certian units will roll better than others. This has bee attributed to superstition, luck, God, personality within the dice ect. Either way you look at it you're likely to have one unit that routinlely defies the odds seemingly giving it perosnallity of it's own. example: My farseer can't kill anything with his thrown singing spear. Has been so for almost 10 years. however his pistol routinely gets through. (yes Ive have frequetly choosen to use the pistol instead on mnay occaissions) Conversly I have a tua fire warrior squad armed with pulse carbines that has a reputation of holding it's own in CC. I also have 5 man spacemarine squad that passes insane amounts of CC saves. (don't ask about them in the shooting phase where they average out)

ChaosMaster
01-12-2007, 04:06
Funny, I'd have thought that due to less plastic in the six face that the centre of gravity would be slightly closer to the one, and therefore the dice weighted towards the six.

-Angry Lawyer
Yes, but the inertia of the of 6 side is less since it's lighter, so it tends not to hold the die down well and keeps rolling past the 6. Read the thread by Yade, the professor who started all this.

Warboss Antoni
02-12-2007, 00:40
Actually, the Vassal ( 40k on the computer, virtual ) dice are huge failures. I rolled like maybe 60 boyz attack on the charge and hit with maybe 10, and did no wounds. I use dollar store dice though - dey are magikz! I'm dead serious I usually roll what I want on them, and I mean not just sixes, you'd be suprised how many times I've rolled insane courage ;)

feelnopain666
02-12-2007, 02:17
when I play at home i try to separate the dice that give me good results, and those who where just a crap. Conclusion: after trying using one of the piles at a time, I find out that its true, the good dice always give me high results, and the bad ones are just good for Leadership tests. Do you need more evidence?

feelnopain666
02-12-2007, 03:57
Ok, ok. Sorry about that. I've alredy change it.