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Kensai X
15-09-2005, 20:01
When some people picture Space Marines some think their slow lumbering giants that are so superior they don't speed, they act as though you've lost already and can take all the time in the world to kill you.

I've been thinking that Space Marines would extraordinarly fast like running 40 mph,can do battle rolls, and throw themselves around the battlefield just like any other infanrymen.

Then some of my friends believe they can do backflips, run on walls, fire on full auto while doing a backflip off a wall... Basically super ninjas...

So what do guys think? Is there any solid fluff out their to prove any one of those theories...?

Shinzui
15-09-2005, 20:28
Yeah it called physics. they weigh a couple of tons, there's no way they could so some of the stuff that they do.

In reality it's Size/strength at the expense of Speed/agility and the other way around.

But we're talking about GW here so of course the rule of cool applies :rolleyes:

2_heads_talking
15-09-2005, 20:33
I would imagine space marines to be able to run, throw thmselves to the floor and generallydo anything that regular soldiers could do. The only difference would be that they have to do it in a big suit of armour.

Now, while this may have some people going "Pfff! The ONLY difference?!" if you imagine the changes that have affected a space marine in their creation, and the amount of training done in the armour (they wear it every single day for training, etc.) its feasible to imagine that they could have learned to compensate for the extra weight of the suit, or perhaps due to increased strength not even feel its effects.

However, I don't imagine space marines running at speeds of 40mph; they would possibly move just slightly faster than an ordinary human, or make more ground before stopping, but they are still human.

Also, about your friend's idea; knda neat, space marines acting like Neo wannabes... :D

Bmaxwell
15-09-2005, 20:33
but then again most Sm aren't doing those types of things.

For example Zso in Lord of the Night most likely had a specail suit of power armour bulit for him so he could do what he does

cpl_hicks
15-09-2005, 21:32
oh, in real life they have created this backpack which increases the amount a person can carry


Okay, a while back in the British newspaper, the Sunday Telegraph, they put an article in their glossy weekend magazine about DARPA (US blokes who make all America's new war-hardware and equipment) and how they plan on increasing the performance of soldiers in the future. I have tried, in vain, to get a link to the article, but there is a picture of a US Marine with a square gun with 36 barrrels, 5 firing at a time. He is wearing a 'Master Chief' Halo style helmet, and has these robotic thingys aiding his legs so that he can carry massive weights. In addition, here is what DARPA plans to intergrate into his uniform/equipment ALL THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE!

Million-Round Gun: Weapon capable of firing a million bullets a minute. In tests already conducted, 26 barrels tied together obliterated 15 doors in 0.2 seconds.

Computerised Helmet: A soldier's future command and control centre; like having the cockpit of an F-16 on your head. Stereoscopic cameras at chin level project up into the visor, giving the soldier a specially tailored display of information, while also allowing him to tap into what others are seeing. Thermal imagers detect unseen threats through smoke or shadows. The visor is bullet and laser proof.

Upper-body nanomuscles: Nickel-Titanium fibre that acts and reacts like a human muscle, but which gives the soldier 25-100 percent greater strength.

Battlebot:Throwable robots that work together in teams to provide covert surveillance and firefighting assistance. Their size means they are easily deployed and should prove invaluable for investigating nooks and crannies. Thought they look like a sci fi fantasy (like little spiders), prototypes are now being tested in Iraq.

Microclimate Control: A 'microclimate conditioning system' constantly monitors exterior temperature and conditions and makes adjustments.

Automatic Syringe: If the soldier is injured or exposed to biological or chemical agents, this device will inject antidotes into his bloodstream until medical help arrives.

Chameleon Camouflage: The uniform automatically replicates the surrounding environment, allowing the soldier to seamlessly belnd in with jungle sand or sea. The inspiration? Predator.

Leg Thingys: I tore this bit off by accident, so here is what I can remember about them; they kind of attach to the body at teh waist via a belt sort of thing, and then again at the knees, like those suspensor things that Inquisitor Eisenhorn has in 40k to keep him stable (what with being so old). You can attach a pack to them, and the current ones, while slowing you down considerably and using a lot of fuel, allow you to carry something like 40 times more in kilos than normal.

Transdermal Patch: A way for the soldier to ingest nutrition though his skin - he doesn't have to break the seal of his uniform to eat, thereby remaining totally protected (this looks kida like a sticking plaster/bandage).

Electronic Doc: A monitoring system gives medical snapshots of each soldier; skin temperature, heart rate, eating and sleeping patterns, all tracked by medics with computers back at base.

Semifluid body armour with nanotechnology: A gel-like armour with an onboard computer system that fits the soldier like a glove, and is his uniform. The soldier is completely encapsulated in it, with no exposed skin. The armour repels chemical, biological, radiological (I *think* this applies to Malika's sonar ideas) and nuclear threats. The technology can detect and approaching bullet and become rigid before impact to defeat the strike.


To me, it sounds a lot like Space Marines, and would fit perfectly with our concepts of Drop Troopers. I wish I could find a picture, because it really does look cool!



now if that can be done to a human now, a sapce marine should be able to carry there power armour about, also the power plant provides a lot of the power to the suits on gyros/servos so when wornm to a space marine it might seem like kevlar bodyarmour is to us, also they have been trained and do live for hundreds of years so they goign ot get used to it

Shinzui
15-09-2005, 22:17
ALL THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE!

I'm always skeptical of posts which claim that yet provide nothing in proof. Considering certain things like the million bullet gun is as about as impossible as interglactic space flight is right now.

Kensai X
15-09-2005, 22:22
I've actually seen the million bullet gun, but it has a hell of alot more barrels then 26, and it's so big no human no matter how amplified their strength would be able to carry it...

Cheitan Shadowless
15-09-2005, 22:37
On topic:

I think the movement of Marines as portrayed in Dawn of War looks fairly realistic. I doubt they'll be doing ninjastunts and somersaults, though. ;)

Strikerkc
15-09-2005, 23:34
The background that GW has put out has them just as agile in the suit as out (it reacts more like another layer of skin than armor). And since marine are much more dexterous than a regular human, it means they're still very fast on their feet in the armor.

They wouldn't be doing certain things like running on walls because they weigh to much. (don't care how dexterous or in control of yourself you are, if you weigh ~500-600 pounds and chuck yourself at a wall, your not going to run on it, you'll go through it).

Minister
15-09-2005, 23:40
Marine armour, as presented, has always been towards protection, strength and the "you're not bloody well stopping this man no matter what you do" attitude which is so prevelant in the Imperium.

Compare a ludicrously chunky vehicle (some sort of off-roader) with a sports car. A Marine is a top-of-the-range supercharged off-roader of the sort Prince Husain might have in his garage. Whilst it will out accelerate a mediocre sports car and can sustain a higher top speed, it lacks manuverability. A highly skilled driver will make it the equal of a decent sports racer, but it is not built for manuverability.

Marines in armour can run fast (but not olympic track speeds) for long periods of time over rough ground. They can haul themselves around with the same amount of agility as a guardsman can whilst wearing half a ton of ceramite. They cannot perform "teh ultimate Ninja moves", nor can they re-create the loby scene from the Matrix.

Kage2020
16-09-2005, 00:22
DARPA 'military article'... You can actually get a "Weapons of the Future" book in Barnes & Noble (in the bargain section!) that discusses much of what you're getting at.

Speed... Incidentally, I have some 'working' RPG statistics for "Adeptus Astartes Power Armour" (AAPA) that indicate that with the 'strength' and 'power' used to generate 40k-like abilities it is capable of running at around 30mph...

Agility... This is a different issue. While the 'black carapace'/neural interface allows them to operate AAPA with a remarkably agility, they are still practical limitations. A great big honking backpack, for one. Limited flexibility in the torso, for another. A part of the training of the Marine would be to utilise their 'battlesuit' to maximum effect given the structural limitations. That is another feature that arguably defines a Marine: the stuff they can do in their armour! :D

Kage

cpl_hicks
16-09-2005, 11:54
I'm always skeptical of posts which claim that yet provide nothing in proof. Considering certain things like the million bullet gun is as about as impossible as interglactic space flight is right now.

darpa images

darpa 1 (http://blog.lewrockwell.com/darpa.jpg)

darpa 2 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1110000/images/_1112411_exos-darpa300.jpg)

darpa 3 (http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/exoskeleton-4.jpg)

darpa 4 (http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/exoskeleton-5.gif)

darpa 5 (http://www.lapetiteclaudine.com/archives/mechamecha.jpg)

darpa 6 (http://www.agent.ai/img/upload/200403/BLEEX1.jpg)

Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation (http://www.darpa.mil/dso/thrust/matdev/ehpa.htm)

How Exoskeletons Will Work (http://science.howstuffworks.com/exoskeleton1.htm)

robotic arm (http://fourier.vuse.vanderbilt.edu/cim/projects/pic/exo/PIDI%20arm.jpg)

The military get mightier (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1112411.stm)

Tomgram: Nick Turse on the Pentagon's sci-fi super warriors (http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1906)

DARPA Exoskeletons: a Bell-Weather of Insect Consumption by People? (http://www.usedcarsalesman.com/2004/12/darpa-exoskeletons-bell-weather-of.html)

million bullet gun (http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,46570,00.html) images on the site (i can take you on a interglactic space flight if you want as well)

probebly fake (http://www.americanantigravity.com/carlos-owens.shtml)

Neogentronyx (maybe be fake) (http://www.neogentronyx.com/)

Ironmen (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.01/ironmen.html)


do you need any more proof

ankellagung
16-09-2005, 12:44
None of that provides *any* proof for the claims the article made. It was talking about auto-reactive body armour which medicates users and allows them to feed by osmosis whilst using personnel carried million round per minute guns. You've shown us a few exoskeleton's which are still highly experimental.

Having said that, there is no reason that a Space Marine couldn't be a super ninja theoretically. So long as a wall is strong enough, a marine could throw himself on it and run along. Personally, though, I believe that you average Marine w/ armour could run a bit faster than a man with less chance of injury whilst firing reasonably accurately (with help of auto-senses). A particularly skilled individual (think Chapter Master or famed Captain), however, I think could do backflips and what not, but probably wouldn't because they're useless in a fight.

That's just IMHO tho.

Sai-Lauren
16-09-2005, 12:51
To Go point by point

- Million-Round Gun: Weapon capable of firing a million bullets a minute. In tests already conducted, 26 barrels tied together obliterated 15 doors in 0.2 seconds.

Metal Storm - 1,000,000 rounds a minute. Multiple barrels, multiple rounds per barrel, electronically fired (current across the barrel from the front - foremost -bullet fires, bullet behind it acts like the breach, then the electronics rotate through the barrels).
However, you could never carry something like this - from weight alone, and the recoil would tear you in half, then twist the barrels around and turn you into a red smear. The original plan was as anti-missile defence for ships.

- Computerised Helmet: A soldier's future command and control centre; like having the cockpit of an F-16 on your head. Stereoscopic cameras at chin level project up into the visor, giving the soldier a specially tailored display of information, while also allowing him to tap into what others are seeing. Thermal imagers detect unseen threats through smoke or shadows. The visor is bullet and laser proof.

Personal Heads-Up displays are easily possible right now. Problem is just how long would the batteries last? ;)
Bullet-proof? Bullet-resistant yes, although the impact will still trash your neck and give you a concussion.

- Upper-body nanomuscles: Nickel-Titanium fibre that acts and reacts like a human muscle, but which gives the soldier 25-100 percent greater strength.

Ni-TI - aka Shape Memory or Memory Metal (ok, I admit, I had to check this one, heres a link (http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1744) ) - return to their original shape by heating - and we're not talking body temperature here - we're talking a few hundred degrees minimum (transformation temperature).
Possible, but you'd be much better off looking at polymers that change their length under electical stimulus. Maybe 20 years from now they'll start coming through.

- Battlebot:Throwable robots that work together in teams to provide covert surveillance and firefighting assistance. Their size means they are easily deployed and should prove invaluable for investigating nooks and crannies. Thought they look like a sci fi fantasy (like little spiders), prototypes are now being tested in Iraq.

Again, totally possible, UAVs have been around since Desert Storm. And again, power requirements are the main drawback.

- Microclimate Control: A 'microclimate conditioning system' constantly monitors exterior temperature and conditions and makes adjustments.

Ah, so you've just ripped the thermal support systems from a space suit?
Excellent, oh wait, guess what you need - could it be power? ;)
Also, need space for a decent sized heat exchanger - if you use the backpack, you've also got to have solid connections between the suit and the backpack.

- Automatic Syringe: If the soldier is injured or exposed to biological or chemical agents, this device will inject antidotes into his bloodstream until medical help arrives.

Easy enough - same kind of system used for patients that are allowed to auto-medicate themselves, even use air syringes (high pressure air pushing the drugs through the skin into the capilaries rather than hypodermics). Problem would then be detecting the presence of the bio/chem agents.

- Chameleon Camouflage: The uniform automatically replicates the surrounding environment, allowing the soldier to seamlessly belnd in with jungle sand or sea. The inspiration? Predator.

Nope, you're into bending light around the soldier, or doing something similar to the adpative camoflague on Bond's DB-9 in Die Another Day (cameras all around, with some kind of lcd display showing the images).

- Leg Thingys: I tore this bit off by accident, so here is what I can remember about them; they kind of attach to the body at teh waist via a belt sort of thing, and then again at the knees, like those suspensor things that Inquisitor Eisenhorn has in 40k to keep him stable (what with being so old). You can attach a pack to them, and the current ones, while slowing you down considerably and using a lot of fuel, allow you to carry something like 40 times more in kilos than normal.

Exo-frame - already at working prototypes. Maybe another five years for working models, but power once again is the problem.

T- ransdermal Patch: A way for the soldier to ingest nutrition though his skin - he doesn't have to break the seal of his uniform to eat, thereby remaining totally protected (this looks kida like a sticking plaster/bandage).

And how does he get the patch onto his skin without breaking the suits seal? :D
Anyway, a patch wouldn't have enough room to hold more than a little nutritional value - for drugs, stimulants etc ok (nicotine and HRT patches work this way), but not for nutrition.

- Electronic Doc: A monitoring system gives medical snapshots of each soldier; skin temperature, heart rate, eating and sleeping patterns, all tracked by medics with computers back at base.

Again, from the space program. No issues here.

- Semifluid body armour with nanotechnology: A gel-like armour with an onboard computer system that fits the soldier like a glove, and is his uniform. The soldier is completely encapsulated in it, with no exposed skin. The armour repels chemical, biological, radiological (I *think* this applies to Malika's sonar ideas) and nuclear (S-L, what's the difference?) threats. The technology can detect and approaching bullet and become rigid before impact to defeat the strike.

What the RPG Traveller 2300Ad called inertial armour. But you don't really need a computer on board, there are gels that become almost solid if hit with force (when they're demonstrated, it's usually hammer blows), yet allow slow moving objects through them, so would flow with the wearers movements. Add a layer of air-hardening gels outside this to seal over bullet holes, put the gel in honeycombs to stop it all flowing to the bottom of the vest and you're looking at now-ish technology (although I personally would like some kevlar and cloth underneath it to absorb the impact and catch anything that does make it through - actually I'd prefer not to be shot at in the first place, but assuming I have no choice in the matter... )

As for marines, the only way they would be doing Matrix moves is the same way the rest of us would, in micro-gravity. If they run at a wall, they're going to be making themselves a new doorway.

I don't dispute that they'd be close to the same level of agility, speed etc as an un-armoured human - else the armour wouldn't have been allowed to be used - but they'd be much closer to a larger wrestler (feel free to add inverted commas around that if you like) such as The Undertaker than a martial artist like Jackie Chan.

Leave insane backflips to Harlequins, Dark Eldar wyches and the Callidus assassin. ;)

Hellebore
16-09-2005, 14:54
Some of what Kage says I agree with (not the running at 30mph/48kph thing though) and have said for years.

Space marines CAN'T do combat rolls- no matter how buff and superduper you are, when you have a back pack that sticks out a foot from your back with giant vents there is no way you CAN roll, nor any way you would WANT to, you are in a suit of solid metal/ceramic it doesn't have shocks in it ;)

Yet the books have them doing this all the time (Storm of iron had marines rolling for cover every second page). It is physically impossible within the constraints of the armour.

Marines also cannot walk properly without having their pelvises artificially widened. If power armour is even 1 cm thick at the thighs it would bang together when ever they walked (try standing with your legs together and see just how far apart your thighs really are- then imagine POWER ARMOUR there) thus all marine models are spreadeagled (even the pictures show this).

As kage said the torso armour would give VERY limited flexibility because it is only in 2 pieces- you just can't bend over with a solid sheet of armour over your abdomen.

THe shoulder pads would also restrict the rotation of the shoulders (even if they are powered to move out of the way there is just no where for them to go).

The only way I can see a marine running at 48kph is if the armour is put on cruise control and supports the weight of the marine totally without their body actually running at all.

hellebore

lonepilgrim
16-09-2005, 15:34
THe shoulder pads would also restrict the rotation of the shoulders (even if they are powered to move out of the way there is just no where for them to go).

Yeah, the shoulderpads always seemed to be way oversized to me. Just trying to glue the models together can be a pain if you try to alter the arm positions.

How would a 'real' Space Marine be able to do something as simple aslie on the ground and fire his bolter? Could his neck articulate enough? Would his backpack get in the way of his head? Would his shoulderpads allow enough rotation of his arms?

I don't think so.

Kage2020
16-09-2005, 17:03
The only way I can see a marine running at 48kph is if the armour is put on cruise control and supports the weight of the marine totally without their body actually running at all.
That would, indeed, be the point... ;)

Kage

Niibl
16-09-2005, 17:11
Oviously movement of a SM would be limited by his armour but as I don't know what changes have been done to a SM's skeleton or of there are sliding connections on the shoulderpad which allows further shouldermovement I would not be that strict on this subject.

Actually in the pictures you just get shown the hardly damaged soldiers.
That does not mean that he won't roll if he has too.
(Maybe the thechmarine will give him a kick afterwards)
Once again we cannot know what technical bits could be installed in the backpacks to prevent them from breaking (as this is pure fiction).
Maybe they adjust their position depending on the wearer's movement or are somewhat flexible so that nothing breaks off.
The two part breastplate won't definitely keep a marine from making a roll (as his backpack would).
Well, BBC (I think) had a TV special about knights an armour with a handfull of guys training in full plate.
They did not even have two piece gear and they could roll and come up again.
Well, the Powerarmour is much more unwieldy but given enough training you should be able to do the same by adjusting your movement accordingly, even with a backpack.

Hideous Loon
16-09-2005, 20:13
But the issue, like lonepilgrim said, is this: Could a Space Marine lie on the ground, firing his bolter? Or would the backpack get in the way of his head? And could those "reactive shoulderpads" move out of the way of his arms? Where would they move to?

Kage2020
16-09-2005, 20:38
...I don't know what changes have been done to a SM's skeleton...
The only changes mentioned are a delay in fusion (generally increasing the size) of the bones and a 'fused' rib cage, which as mentioned previously is a tad on the daft side. Otherwise they are proportionately human, if sliding towards the extreme sides of the mesomorph body type. (You would not imagine gracile or ectomorphic Marines, or at least I wouldn't.) Again, though, proportionately human.

Counter to this argument is Philip Sibbering's (40k artist, in case you didn't know) continuing saga...

<start dramatic music>

... to significantly change the physiology of the Marine in a disproportionate sense. Think gorilla shape more than human.

There are arguments to both sides and, indeed, you can see Philip's arguments on various threads in this forum. For me? Well, since I don't have to conform to commercial lines (i.e. Space Marine miniatures) I say change the power armour. Philip, however, does work in that commercial world and thus the flesh underneath is more muteable.

Whatever twiddles your biscuit.

As to making a roll. One could argue that the curvature of the backpack actually gives the Marine a better chance. Without it he'd just be doing a belly flop! :D

Kage

ankellagung
17-09-2005, 02:48
Metal Storm - 1,000,000 rounds a minute. Multiple barrels, multiple rounds per barrel, electronically fired (current across the barrel from the front - foremost -bullet fires, bullet behind it acts like the breach, then the electronics rotate through the barrels).
However, you could never carry something like this - from weight alone, and the recoil would tear you in half, then twist the barrels around and turn you into a red smear. The original plan was as anti-missile defence for ships.

Indeed, and his link shows us that the technology is there, but the article talked about it as a standard combat infantry weapon



Personal Heads-Up displays are easily possible right now. Problem is just how long would the batteries last? ;)
Bullet-proof? Bullet-resistant yes, although the impact will still trash your neck and give you a concussion.

Again, the article talks about it like auto-senses: revealing threats and altering vision modes. As standard kit, it is way too specialised and expensive. Batteries probably wouldn't be an issue however: a commercially available minicam can run for several hours on a 9V battery (those little rectangular ones). Dodgy picture, tho. The real battery issue would be transmitting said picture between helmets.



Ni-TI - aka Shape Memory or Memory Metal (ok, I admit, I had to check this one, heres a link (http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1744) ) - return to their original shape by heating - and we're not talking body temperature here - we're talking a few hundred degrees minimum (transformation temperature).
Possible, but you'd be much better off looking at polymers that change their length under electical stimulus. Maybe 20 years from now they'll start coming through.

Agreed.



Again, totally possible, UAVs have been around since Desert Storm. And again, power requirements are the main drawback.

UAV's have two major distinctions however:
1) They are generally remote controlled, as opposed to having an AI
2) They fly
To use these robots in large numbers, an AI would likely be required, or a small hand-held control device, which would limit it's functions (you can only have so many buttons). Locomotion would also be an issue. Flying vehicles are easy but a "spider-like" robot would require a *very* complex program for moving it's legs. I am unaware of any legged robots which can move fast.



Ah, so you've just ripped the thermal support systems from a space suit?
Excellent, oh wait, guess what you need - could it be power? ;)
Also, need space for a decent sized heat exchanger - if you use the backpack, you've also got to have solid connections between the suit and the backpack.
[/QOUTE]
But this would have to be contained within the liquid-armour shell. Also, AFAIK, space suits don't actually regulate the temperature. They just have insulation.


Easy enough - same kind of system used for patients that are allowed to auto-medicate themselves, even use air syringes (high pressure air pushing the drugs through the skin into the capilaries rather than hypodermics). Problem would then be detecting the presence of the bio/chem agents.

That and carrying all the different meds. And don't forget: Liquid armour shell.

[QUOTE]
Nope, you're into bending light around the soldier, or doing something similar to the adpative camoflague on Bond's DB-9 in Die Another Day (cameras all around, with some kind of lcd display showing the images).

Maybe they'll just walk *really* quietly :p



Exo-frame - already at working prototypes. Maybe another five years for working models, but power once again is the problem.
[/QOUTE]
Also that the legs are quite bulky, and have to have minimum impact on combat maneuvers (e.g. rolling, sidestepping). Also, some prototypes move so fast that they can injure people (i.e. they respond to the electrical impulses faster than the persons muscles) IIRC there's a company looking at building them for the elderly/disabled to allow to walk more easily/at all.

[QUOTE]
And how does he get the patch onto his skin without breaking the suits seal? :D
Anyway, a patch wouldn't have enough room to hold more than a little nutritional value - for drugs, stimulants etc ok (nicotine and HRT patches work this way), but not for nutrition.

That and, regardless of how much there is in the patch, humans cannot receive all nutrients through osmosis.



Again, from the space program. No issues here.

Liquid armour shell



What the RPG Traveller 2300Ad called inertial armour. But you don't really need a computer on board, there are gels that become almost solid if hit with force (when they're demonstrated, it's usually hammer blows), yet allow slow moving objects through them, so would flow with the wearers movements. Add a layer of air-hardening gels outside this to seal over bullet holes, put the gel in honeycombs to stop it all flowing to the bottom of the vest and you're looking at now-ish technology (although I personally would like some kevlar and cloth underneath it to absorb the impact and catch anything that does make it through - actually I'd prefer not to be shot at in the first place, but assuming I have no choice in the matter... )

But the article is talking about nano-tech stuff, which also repels chemical, biological and nuclear agents. How does it know the difference between good stuff and bad stuff. Also, it has to let light through or the body suffers ill effects (they have huge problems with this in the Antarctic winter).



As for marines, the only way they would be doing Matrix moves is the same way the rest of us would, in micro-gravity. If they run at a wall, they're going to be making themselves a new doorway.

Not if the wall is strong enough.

Shinzui
17-09-2005, 03:47
Well

darpa 1 - This could be anything, it also doesn't match anything from your first quote so I don't know what your trying to prove.

darpa 2,3,4 - Nice sketches, I think I recognise the artists name. I've seen better and more detailed sketches in a sci-fi book.

darpa 5 - Nice I already knew about those as my country first man that lost both his arms got artificial ones link to his arm nerves using technology derived from this. Though if I remember correctly the news article mentioned they hadn't gotten passed the unrealistic large power requirements.

darpa 6- Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation, Did you know that the US military during I think the 60s-70s had a huge project to make an anti-grav all terrain vehicle using their newly required jet technology, it technically worked just like they outlined but there were flaws they couldn't overcome and the project was scrapped. I don't see this as being much different.

robotic arm - Has much to do with nothing I can see.

Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation - All that points to me in this article "DARPA plans to do...", not "DARPA has produced/tested"

The military get mightier - Another "Plan will try to do but cannot garauntee success" article.

Tomgram: Nick Turse on the Pentagon's sci-fi super warriors - Proofs nothing. It doesn't even mention any of the technologies except a vague mention of "costly robotic suits".

DARPA Exoskeletons: a Bell-Weather of Insect Consumption by People? - and old article saying "that they are going to...".

million bullet gun - Nice though where has been the development since then? 4 years since that discover yet we are still using what seems to be outdated technology. Even in that article the potential uses is summed up as "and may never prove suitable". If also doesn't mention any limitations of the weapon, from what I read the way the weapon fires makes reloading a very technical (=long) reload time.

Kensai X
17-09-2005, 04:01
No offense, but governments aren't gonna pay for bulletproof armor... Right now what the American Army is "bullet resistant" armor. It won't a stop solid Ak-47 shot, definatly won't stop rifle bullet, and pretty much a decent sniper rifle would make a mockery of it...

ankellagung
17-09-2005, 07:10
An AK-47 is a rifle, and if the price is right a government will buy a tank for every soldier. But that's not feasible. Also, I think you'll find that an American foot-soldiers chest armour *will* stop a bullet from an average (e.g. M16/Ak-47) assault rifle, leaving the wearer with maybe some broken ribs (bruised ribs in best case scenario). Helmets, on the other hand, won't, as they are designed for anti-shrapnel protection.

Minister
17-09-2005, 09:33
I do seem to recall that the Brittish infantry are in the habbit of removing the ceramic insets in the battle armour and replacing them with bits of corugated card, on the grounds that they're bloody heavy and are liable to leave you too tired to react in a combat situation, and will not stop a direct hit from a decent weapon in any case. Just a comment.