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Twilight
29-11-2007, 19:35
ok,
so if I'm thinking about making a deathwing army but not dark angels. I currently have a SMs army going which is soul drinkers and it shall continue.
but the question i want to ask is- besides dark angel, what chapters link with a full terminator the most?

twilight

Light of the Emperor
29-11-2007, 19:42
Any codex astartes chapter could be played as a full terminator army. This would represent the first company in action.
IIRC, the Iron Hands rarely field squads of terminators. Instead they give the suits to sgts and whatnot. Raven Guard don't utilize them since they are not really stealthy and they don't have many suits to begin with considering they were almost wiped out during the heresy.

Imperial Fists can be a good one since there are many "Lysander-wing" armies out there.

Commander Dante
29-11-2007, 19:45
Salamanders also have abundant terminator suits for some reason they are called the Fire Drakes

Twilight
29-11-2007, 19:54
would soul drinkers be a possibilty?

Commander Dante
29-11-2007, 20:06
i dont see why not

Twilight
29-11-2007, 20:07
sounds good to me. Let the army commence

Dreachon
29-11-2007, 20:10
No they are not, the sould drinkers got nearly completely destroyed during it's 2 chapters the wars, after the first they had only 1 battlebrother in terminator armour left and he was killed during the 2nd chapter war.
Also the souldrinkers are a renegade chapter and as such lack the resources for getting such revered artifacts.

Thier not the best if you want to go terminator heavy as the first founding chapters will have more of them.

For more info on the soul drinkers you should check the novels on them.

Lornak Bloodgreed
29-11-2007, 20:10
"Cold and Fast Soul Drinkers, Cold and Fast, thats how we fight. Execute the enemy before they even know we here there." - Captain of the Soul Drinkers Chapter

"Terminators of the First Company, Cold and Fast, when we warp in, I want no mistakes, strike their weakness, wipe them out, and retreat!" - My own method for "cold and fast"

sigur
29-11-2007, 20:15
I'm not a fan of the idea or of any idea involving using chapter-specific rules in other chapters. Deathwing = Dark Angels and Death Company = BA. Both come with their background and their colourscheme. If you play a chapter, play it but don't "kitbash" around just because someone else got new rules and they look shiny.

Mechanicus
29-11-2007, 20:30
No they are not, the sould drinkers got nearly completely destroyed during it's 2 chapters the wars, after the first they had only 1 battlebrother in terminator armour left and he was killed during the 2nd chapter war.
Also the souldrinkers are a renegade chapter and as such lack the resources for getting such revered artifacts.

Thier not the best if you want to go terminator heavy as the first founding chapters will have more of them.

For more info on the soul drinkers you should check the novels on them.Just to be pedantic (sorry!), but before that (for approximately 10,972 years, perhaps give a bit) they weren't excommunicated - plenty of time to have a company of Terminators around. ;) It's a bit like Iyanden - they only relied so much on wraith forces for around eight of that eleven thousand years or so since the fall, and that's still what they're best known for. :p

Gen.Steiner
29-11-2007, 20:36
I'm not a fan of the idea or of any idea involving using chapter-specific rules in other chapters.

Oi! Deathwing are the only way to properly field a 1st Company Strikeforce for any Chapter. Are you callin' my Righteous Fists a kitbash? Huh? You wanna say that to this power fist? Huh?

Dreachon
29-11-2007, 20:42
Just to be pedantic (sorry!), but before that (for approximately 10,972 years, perhaps give a bit) they weren't excommunicated - plenty of time to have a company of Terminators around. It's a bit like Iyanden - they only relied so much on wraith forces for around eight of that eleven thousand years or so since the fall, and that's still what they're best known for.


Before the first chapterwar it is possible but I don't know how much time in between their founding and the first war, the sofar the books give the indication that they followed each other rather quickly.
They are excommunicated, they were cast out from the imperium and are beeing hunted by the crimson fists who consider them heresy against the geneseed of rogal dorn, they are living on a spacehulk which is not the best place for making suits.

And the most recent novel clearly mentioned them having only 1 terminator and he got shot by multiple bolter and plasmarounds.

Mechanicus
29-11-2007, 20:45
They were second founding of the Imperial Fists, going all the way back to 021.M31 - not every game played has to be in the 990's of M41, and they have had plenty of time for it... ;)

Dreachon
29-11-2007, 20:58
You sure their 2nd founding, as far as I know the IF only had 2 chapters during their 2nd founding, namely the black templars and the crimson fists, I think the SD are more part of later foundings.

Mechanicus
29-11-2007, 21:02
According to the books they are second founding, and they also explain the non-existence of records on them; the Inquisition issues a deletion order on all data on the Soul Drinkers because some believed they were destroyed (what with their fleet destroyed in deep space) and hence not a threat any longer.

Lisiecki
29-11-2007, 21:33
I'm not a fan of the idea or of any idea involving using chapter-specific rules in other chapters. Deathwing = Dark Angels and Death Company = BA. Both come with their background and their colourscheme. If you play a chapter, play it but don't "kitbash" around just because someone else got new rules and they look shiny.

yes,
Just like it says in codex: dark angels

you are not aloud to create your own successor chapter

Gen.Steiner
29-11-2007, 21:56
you are not aloud to create your own successor chapter

:eyebrows: I hope that's sarcasm...


Collecting an army based on a Successor Chapter is simple. Use the Dark Angels army list presented on the following pages and paint your miniatures using the appropriate colour scheme ... (or make one up yourself).

To represent the various Masters of the Successors, you can use the models and rules for the named Dark Angels characters such as Azrael or Belial - you just need to come up with new names.

This is a perfect way to personalise your army - just make sure your opponent is aware what everything counts as.

Chainsworded Codpiece
29-11-2007, 22:04
yes,
Just like it says in codex: dark angels
you are not aloud to create your own successor chapter

Liesecki,

That's not what the OP is thinking of doing. Read the question and responses carefully. The Soul Drinkers, though you may not like them, or believe that they are Second Founding (I know that there is evidence both for and against this), are not being pulled out of nowhere...Twilight wants to use a Chapter that exist already in fluff. Twilight's not "creating his own successor chapter".

As for the idea of Deathwingin' a bunch of scurvy mutated heterodox sonzaguns...well, I'm both for and against it.

Twilight, if you like the Soul Drinkers as they are shown in Counter's novels NOW, I think the "No Way" responses are correct.

The 'Drinkers were slashed to hash at the end of Chapter War; they just don't have any of the resources available to field a Death(/Fist/Soul)Wing. Can't be done.

Wait. Let me re-phrase. Can't be logically done. OTOH, if you wanna bail on logic , go ahead. Nobody here is actually the Continuity Police, we can't whoop your ass or arrest you. :)

HOWEVER- If you don't mind playing the Chapter as (perhaps) they might have been "back in the day", as non-effed-up Loyalist "Dorn's-men", now THAT makes for a mighty tasty 'Wing.

Dark Purple and Blazing Chalice for the...win? Slaughter? Whatever. Game on!

Eulenspiegel
30-11-2007, 07:38
I'm not a fan of the idea or of any idea involving using chapter-specific rules in other chapters. Deathwing = Dark Angels and Death Company = BA. Both come with their background and their colourscheme. If you play a chapter, play it but don't "kitbash" around just because someone else got new rules and they look shiny.
If I were the sigging type, I would sig that.

However, did the OP really want to use Deathwing rules? I thought he was aiming towards a Terminator - heavy Space Marine army. You know, the one with two minimum Scout squads.

pookie
30-11-2007, 08:32
They were second founding of the Imperial Fists, going all the way back to 021.M31 - not every game played has to be in the 990's of M41, and they have had plenty of time for it... ;)


According to the books they are second founding, and they also explain the non-existence of records on them; the Inquisition issues a deletion order on all data on the Soul Drinkers because some believed they were destroyed (what with their fleet destroyed in deep space) and hence not a threat any longer.

well im not a big fan of Ben Counter's i'll make it a second founding chapter to make it sound cool! idea.

until his 1st book came out and even accoriding to the BT dex ( where it gives the origins of the BT) the IF only had the CF and BT as successor chapters

The first mention of the Soul drinkers in none Ben Counter Fluff that ive been able to find, is in the BT dex where it lists various battles, the Soul drinkers are listed as attacking the imperial palace along side the BT during the reign of Gorge Vandire.

for me its ben Counter 'Bigging Up' his own chapater and nothing more.

Gen.Steiner
30-11-2007, 12:15
If I were the sigging type, I would sig that.

However, did the OP really want to use Deathwing rules? I thought he was aiming towards a Terminator - heavy Space Marine army. You know, the one with two minimum Scout squads.

Deathwing rules are the only way to field an all-Terminator strike force of the kind used by almost all Marine chapters to destroy the heart of the enemy.

"La la la happy day in my sealed command bunker, nothing can get me, hurrah, hurr-"
*TELEPORTING NOISES*
"Bugger. It looks like I was drastically wrong with my previous statement."
*HIDEOUS VIOLENCE*
"Mission accomplished. Bring us in."
*TELEPORTING NOISES*

So you see! If you want to represent that, then you have to field a 'Deathwing' army. It's all that you can do really.

As for the Soul Drinkers, I know nothing about them but I can tell you that at some point in their history they had more than one and a half suits of Tactical Dreadnought armour...!

Eulenspiegel
30-11-2007, 12:32
Deathwing rules are the only way to field an all-Terminator strike force of the kind used by almost all Marine chapters to destroy the heart of the enemy.
Typical of people to forget about those poor scouts who laser-tagged the target from that hill just over there.
Terminators hug all the glory :p

Gen.Steiner
30-11-2007, 12:59
Typical of people to forget about those poor scouts who laser-tagged the target from that hill just over there.
Terminators hug all the glory :p

Laser-tagging the target that's inside a bunker? Besides, if the scouts are on a hill some distance away, why would they get involved while the Terminators kick proverbial buttock? :angel:

I wants my all-Terminator army and I'll have my all-Terminator army, damnit. I'm irritated enough at having to field Captain Worthless rather than my own characters...

mistformsquirrel
30-11-2007, 13:09
Laser-tagging the target that's inside a bunker? Besides, if the scouts are on a hill some distance away, why would they get involved while the Terminators kick proverbial buttock? :angel:

I wants my all-Terminator army and I'll have my all-Terminator army, damnit. I'm irritated enough at having to field Captain Worthless rather than my own characters...

This is why General Steiner is one of the coolest people ever.

Eulenspiegel
30-11-2007, 13:21
I wants my all-Terminator army and I'll have my all-Terminator army, damnit. I'm irritated enough at having to field Captain Worthless rather than my own characters...
Must be more irritating than taking 2 alibi-scout units, surely, the first turn deep strike canīt be a factor? :angel:
Naa Iīm being cynical, forget what I wrote (my edit button is jammed). Of cause I would always play people with such a counts-as army, but I reserve the right to raise an eyebrow beforehand ;)

JackBurton01
30-11-2007, 13:22
Since when did count as go out the window? Especially with different marine chapters? Use whatever rules you want just be consitent ;all Dark angels all blood angels ect. Sigur, I'm going to guess you are one of the people who believes you can not have a night lords army without night lord specific rules.

wilsonian
30-11-2007, 13:46
I run a 101st list (thats 1st and 10th added together :) ) Only troops I have are termies and scouts.

add a few traits and stick dreadnoughts in heavy support - that way you can have a max of 5 Termie squads (inc command squads).

The general 1.5k list runs with 2 libbies with command squads, a single squad, 2 dreads and 2 5 man scouts with missile launchers. in higher point games I field an extra land raider and another squad of termies. It's a very hard list to play but good fun. I'm currently looking into getting a crusaider for a chappy and 7 assault termies just to pack a punch. Back ground wise I haven't really come up with one. They are painted in a deathwing style colours ish (as I was hoping the DW rules would have been better) however I've called them the bone collectors just to add a spin :)

Gen.Steiner
30-11-2007, 14:16
Must be more irritating than taking 2 alibi-scout units, surely, the first turn deep strike canīt be a factor? :angel:

Shockingly, yes, it is. :p Been Deathwinging it before the new 'dex, and by god have hardly used the 'wing with the new one. Shame really.

If I wanted to take alibi units I'd take Tac marines painted as Veterans from the 1st...

Spacewolves vs Thousandsons
30-11-2007, 14:23
Before the first chapterwar it is possible but I don't know how much time in between their founding and the first war, the sofar the books give the indication that they followed each other rather quickly.
They are excommunicated, they were cast out from the imperium and are beeing hunted by the crimson fists who consider them heresy against the geneseed of rogal dorn, they are living on a spacehulk which is not the best place for making suits.

And the most recent novel clearly mentioned them having only 1 terminator and he got shot by multiple bolter and plasmarounds.

they also fought against the howling gryphons. and its not just the crimson fists who are after the soul drinkers it is every chapter that shares the geneseed of rogal dorn and all of them think that it is their duty to cleanse the soul drinkers provided that they encounter said soul drinkers on the battle feild

ctsteel
30-11-2007, 18:16
actually none of the other chapters would know about them going rogue, save the ones that they have already encountered.

the chapters don't have regular get-togethers to pass on gossip, and the inquisition has deleted all reference to their existence, so any time a chapter runs across them they will be hunted down merely for being rogue/mutant, not because the other Fist-founded chapters are specifically looking for them etc

OT: I don't have a problem with someone using Deathwing rules to represent a terminator strike force - isn't that the point of many armies using a different codex to counts-as? And in fact this one sits closer to reality than say using a guard codex to represent an AdMech force etc since it is exactly what it represents - a 1st company of terminator vets, just for a different chapter.

Deathwing are merely the 1st company terminators for the dark angels, most other chapters have a terminator 1st company as well. So what rules are in the DA codex that makes it so unforgiveable (hah!) to use for another chapter?

Freak Ona Leash
01-12-2007, 14:35
I'm not a fan of the idea or of any idea involving using chapter-specific rules in other chapters. Deathwing = Dark Angels and Death Company = BA. Both come with their background and their colourscheme. If you play a chapter, play it but don't "kitbash" around just because someone else got new rules and they look shiny.
Because no other Chapter ever, in the history of forever has EVER used an all-Terminator force. Mhm. Yep. Totally true.