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Wreckage
16-09-2005, 00:59
I have been slowly refining my army list for empire and I am really close to completion. I could use a bit of help and advice...

395 Elector Count on Griffon, Full Plate, Shield, Runefang
125 Captain, BSB, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Sword of Might (Joins Greatswords)
145 Battle Wizard, Level 2, Lore of Metal, Two Dispel Scrolls

165 Spearmen (20) Full Command
--60 Halberdier Detachment (10)
--80 Handgunner Detachment (10)
165 Swordsmen (20) Full Command
--60 Halberdier Detachment (10)
--80 Handgunner Detachment (10)
300 Knights of the Inner Circle (10) Full Command

246 Greatswords (19) Champion, Musician
100 Great Cannon
75 Mortar

Total is 1996 currently. I have the models for a unit of Pistoliers, but other than that I have to work with what I've got. The Runefang is a lot of points, but I'm not sure what else to give him to make him combat effective.

I am satisfied with the BSB as is.

I like the Lore of Metal for my Wizard, but I would consider switching to Fire.

I love the core troops of this army list, the only thing I might do is give the Knights a War Banner when I free up some points.

The Greatswords could be reduced to 14...

The Cannon and Mortar are handy.

Any help or experience is very welcome!

Ozorik
16-09-2005, 13:00
10 knights are to many IMO. 8 is a good size for a main knight unit in my experience. With the points saved I would bump up the swordsmen to at least 25, swapping the halberdiers in 1 detachment for free company should give enough points to do the same with the spearmen.

I dont like greatswords and as such I would drop them altogether, get yourself 2 units of 10 archers and use them as detachments for your infantry. The handgunners would become either 2 indiependant units or 1 parent with 2 detachments. Archer detachments are extrmely useful. They absorb some incoming magic/missile fire and they they block enemy charges, they can even be used to march block. Yes they dont kill much but they are a very tactical unit.

Equip the swordsmen with the griffon banner, its much safer in a unit and the unit standard bearer means that if your BSB is killed your unit still gets the +1 CR. You should have enough points left over to bump up the unit to 30. The griffon banner makes your swordsmen extremely hard to beat in melee, with a counter charging detachment they get a mighty +8 CR before a blow has been struck and your opponent doesn get his rank bonus. Nothing short of chosen khornate knights will feel confident against those odds.

Personally I think that an elector on a griffon is little more than a points sink but if your happy with him then crack on.

If you dont have the models then your list should do ok as is though.

peteratwar
16-09-2005, 13:15
Finf for the EC plate Armour, Enchanted Shield, Sword Power & Holy Relic mounted on a barded Warhorse gives him good all round abilities

Put him in with 7 Knights plus War Banner

Level could be dropped on Wizard

The BSB (assuming you feel you need one) is fine


I would drop the HtH detachments to 8 & the shooty detachments to 6. You will find them quite unweildy otherwise

You need Griffon Banner with your infantry & agreed I would drop the Great swords & use Pistoliers. A volley gun would be nice as would some Hunters

I prefer Militia for the HtH Detachments

Wreckage
16-09-2005, 20:01
I'm not going to drop all the infantry. The list you (empirearethebest) suggest is completely different, and something I am not interested in doing.

I am quite fond of the Elector riding the Grifffon, He has served me well. My elector causing Terror and negating ranks is fantastic.

I have fond detachments of 10 work very well because they need to take 3 casualties before panic checks. I always deploy my handgunner detachments on a hill so they can fire in two ranks. 10 Halberdiers means the enemy must kill 6 before they cease to cancel flanks instead of 4.

I'm not terribly fond of the Griffon Banner. Its INCREDIBLY overused and I feel it limits my options for pursuing.

I will consider trying to boost my infantry to 25...

I like Halberdier detachments over Militia, in fact I was trying to use a Professional Army theme.

I could drop the Wizards Level but there have been many (usually multiple times per game) times when he gets spells off, even against Tzeentch. (irresistible, opponents rolls low dispel, etc) He uses 3 of the dice to cast spell #2-6 and one dice to cast spell #1.

I really like the models and story for Greatswords, and since I'm fielding an Elector Count, it only makes sense for them to be present.

10 knights over 8 because they dont panic check if they get bolt throwered, cannonballed etc.

Brother Edwin
16-09-2005, 20:04
Drop all the infantry, get lots of handgunners and lots of artillery. Now drop your Battle Standard bearer, the count on griffon, and take a wizard lord and 2 more lv 2 wizards with some gear. 8 Knights in a unit sucks...a unit of 6 with warbanner is much better...but your unit of 10 is fine.


Oi, oi, oi. I have noticed how you have been encrouching on MY area doing MY job. Will I will tell ya now there is only room for one.


And yes 8 knights do suck.

backslide
17-09-2005, 21:48
certailly looks like it could well work, not sure the runefang is that good a choice, I recon give him Armor of Meteoric Iron, a holy relic, vanhorstamins speculim and charge him at the meaniest charater you can find...

Ozorik
19-09-2005, 12:56
The griffonbanner may be overused but it is still extremely useful and counterhcarging detachments can still persue.


Drop all the infantry, get lots of handgunners and lots of artillery. Now drop your Battle Standard bearer, the count on griffon, and take a wizard lord and 2 more lv 2 wizards with some gear. 8 Knights in a unit sucks...a unit of 6 with warbanner is much better...but your unit of 10 is fine.

Oh what a fun army this is to use..... Drop all the infantry? What do you suggest will hold off the veritable horde of enemy melee troops which reach your lines? A unit knights will simply get swamped

8 knights in a unit is actually very usefull, it can take a few casualities, has a good unit strength while still being powerful and isnt too expensive. If you want to use MSUs of knights then you may as well get units of 5.

The real problem with the handgunner detachments is that they basically force your infantry blocks into being stationary if you want to benifit from the detachment rules.

As to magic items on the EC I only use at armour of meteoric iron and a great weapon, this makes him my cheapest character but still viable. VHS is wasted on an EC, the best empire character to give it to is a warrrior priest due to their 2 attacks and the fact that most characters with higher S and T vaules you will hate.

I would keep the mage at lvl 2, its not as if its expensive and it makes him that little bit more useful.

Wreckage
19-09-2005, 13:07
Handgunner detachments are grand! When they flee they dont cause panic checks, this alone is worth getting them!

I will easily leave behind the handgunners to go on the offensive because the main reason for the handgunners being detachments is for the panic issues.

Ozorik
19-09-2005, 13:15
I suspect that you would be it is sort of wasting a detachment slot. Archers however can keep pace with your units, be extremely annoying for your opponent and they even kill something occationally.

Personally I dont rate empire missile units (pistoliers excepted) very highly, mine never seem to do very much and they are fairly expensive.


And yes 8 knights do suck

I beg to differ.

Lord Anathir
20-09-2005, 03:52
About the equipment on the count, i think you could use a ward save or some more armor, especially since ur mounted on a large target. It will be abig missile magnet though...and im not found of T5 4Wounds no armor carrying a lord.

Lmao... @ Brother Edwin:
Im not very fond of power gaming, but ur reply really cracked me up. heh.

Ozorik
20-09-2005, 12:50
Your logic is flawed. My additional knights add to both my survivablity as knights tend to attract a lot of magic and warmachine fire, they also have a higher unit strength which I have found to make quite a difference. I dont set up my knights as 4x2 either, I have a line of 5 with a 2nd rank of 3. This has worked very well for me as in every game I have played recently my knights have suffered quite severe casualites but have still been able to do what I need them to do.

6 knights arnt guaranteed to all get into combat. 46 points inst considerably more especially when you consider the benifits I have already outlined.

Ozorik
20-09-2005, 18:20
You would be suprised how often my knights get an outnumber bonus.

Im not to bothered about cannons, its more things like doom divers which get D6 hits or however many, these always seem to do the most damage. I always lose knights to various things and I prefer to have the numbers to soak up casualties whihc would otherwise cripple the unit.

I have read the posts and articles on warhammer empire and Im sticking to my guns.

peteratwar
22-09-2005, 13:51
Firstly, I have to say that I agree with Ozorik, I have been using 8 Knights for years and they have very very rarely let me down. I suspect it depends how you use them.

Second, getting 6 cannon shots at them in a 6 turn game would require a lot of cannons! Let alone the chances of hits/misfires

Third, statistics are wonderful; there are just 2 things wrong with them. The dice rolls usually have their own ideas. Further as statistics they are talking liklihoods and are rarely exactly achieved. You will mostly either do better or worse. Statistics are at best a rough guide.