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Col. Dash
29-11-2007, 22:59
I am thinking of building an army based on a crusading knights hosiptaller force. I am trying to figure out what army list to base it off off. The models and foot troops of the brits fit much better since they are of the same rough era of history but their foot troops are riduculously bad compared to how they should be. Empire has less of the knightly thing but better foot troops, but no trebuchet errr. The models are based on later century Holy roman empire and look nothing like what a crusade army should look like. Anyone have any ideas?

deathskullork
29-11-2007, 23:12
I would tailor the list to the models if I were you. It sounds like the theme will be the most important part so I would make the models (or at least have an idea of the overall layout) and then tailor the list to them. You could potentially make a brettonian force or a cavalry heavy empire force with one set of models. I was thinking of a similar project myself so make sure you keep us informed. Also elves might be a possibility but im not sure on their stats and units so I cant say for sure.

CHOOBER SNIPES
29-11-2007, 23:17
I am kinda making an army just lik that with brets. Id say go with them, and if u want just cut off the icons on the helmets, i might to that. I painted one up and it looked great (actually this was one of a unit of Knights Templar :) ). the foot troops arent very good but definately usable, many armies are peasant heavy. they could easily represent the majority of christian armies at the crusades. they are the peasants taking up arms to gain a place in Heaven. Most any exceptional soldiers were mounted anyway, and thats where the christians held their advantage, heavy cav. Anyway, either way go brets i would say, as the models are more crusade era if u take out the icons on helmets. the empire ones are full plate and all, not crusade era, that was chainmail and whatnot. If u think the peasants are bad, u just keep a unit of knights nearby and they get LD8 and use HW&S 5X4 not a bad unit for 100 pts. (20 MaA). Also, the empire models are certainly not crusade era, with all the poofy sleeves and all. do whatever but id definitely go Brets, cus in addition to more crusade-esque models they make a much more effective army in this build. hope it turns out well, i just keep imagining what my crusading army will look lik...er...once i paint it...and buy half the models...

DDogwood
29-11-2007, 23:24
Also, the empire models are certainly not crusade era, with all the poofy sleeves and all.

I agree with most of the rest of what you say, but using the Empire rules doesn't necessarily require using the Empire models. Isn't there a "Grand Army of Cathay" on the GW website that uses the Bretonnian rules? Most of those minis aren't based on Bretonnian minis.

That said, the Bretonnian list does seem the closest to a Crusader army, but the Empire would work nearly as well. You can use a Trebuchet model for a Mortar, if you need to, because the rules are close enough - as an added bonus, this will let you use cannon, which were part of later crusading armies, too.

redbaron998
29-11-2007, 23:54
Yes, I am gonna do a Crusading Order (eithier Templars, Hospitallers, or a made up one) whenever Bret gets redone (I am really just not in a hurry so migh as well wait)

Brets are the way to go, much more crusady and such, though Empire can be used for a more latter themed crusades (after Gunpowder became popular and such)

Eithier way good luck mate

wallacer
30-11-2007, 03:45
I have exactly the kind of army you are talking about. It is my combined Empire/WAB Teutonic Knights army.

The empire list does the job fine. My Schwerdbruder can easily be used as empire knights and the infantry is pretty much interchangeable.

Khorghan
30-11-2007, 03:49
use the empire rules seeing as that is the list you like best (use a mortar for a trebuchet) and use bretonian models, nothings stopping you-just be sure to tell your oponent that it is an empire list and not a bettonian one.

Col. Dash
30-11-2007, 03:59
Thanks, the trebuchet as a mortar is a great idea. I will look at both army books very closely especially the foot troops and men-at-arms. I have 40 something brit archers I would like to somehow use(got them cheap out of a bargain bin somewhere).

lilljonas
30-11-2007, 07:28
With that theme, you can go either way with the same force once you have more models. If you want to bring a mobile force with lots of mounted knight, use the bretonnia list. If you want a better infantry line-up, bring the dismounted models and archers and use the Empire rules. This way you have more variety, so you can switch books entirely without having to get new models.

Col. Dash
30-11-2007, 12:30
I was thinkin along the same direction actually heheh. Great minds and all...

Gazak Blacktoof
30-11-2007, 14:40
That might get rather confusing for people though if the same model has two different sets of rules from one game to the next.

I'd stick with one set of rules. Primarily because there are no foot knights in the bret list I would use the empire one. It also has clerics in the list which should be an intrinsic element of any fantasy crusading army.

Col. Dash
01-12-2007, 02:02
Yeah, I think the warrior priest character is the clincher for my list. I have already made a home rule that they cant go into battle without one. I still might add some minor fantasy elements such as a wizard advisor(they arent the Templars after all) and elector count marshal on a griffen because I really like griffens and it is a fantasy game heheh.

Dwarf Runelord 45
20-12-2007, 00:15
The empire in my opinon doesn't have strong enough units to represent a crusader force but your idea is good enough for me.

505
20-12-2007, 06:42
I would go with the Bretonians

I would use empire greatswrdsmen (or model of your choice) (5+save can't use it as a greatweapon)models for a grail relique unit...a oppurtunity for a nice conversion centerpeice for them to carry into battle.

I think the Bret m@a have knightly erra sheilds

Trebuchets are just too cool (though don't have one dang theme...sighs...oh well)
no PK to fit in

you need to keep as many models as possible from thesame range but if converted and makes sense and you let your opponent know what a specefic unit is...I find no problems

Griefbringer
20-12-2007, 13:09
In case nobody mentioned it, there is also the Dogs of War list:

- heavy cavalry (knights)
- light cavalry (sergeants, turcopoles etc.)
- crossbowmen
- skirmishing infantry
- some heavy infantry (paymaster's bodyguard)

The only thing really missing is the possibility to have spear armed core infantry.

EvC
20-12-2007, 14:45
Trebuchet as a mortar? Pah, make your own mangonel from scratch!

lilljonas
21-12-2007, 01:18
Trebuchet as a mortar? Pah, make your own mangonel from scratch!

Now that's a project log I'd like to see.