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Deathwing_Matt
29-11-2007, 23:35
Hi everyone,

After years of playing 40K, Ive given myself a year to get into fantasy and hopfully get up to a playing standard decent enough for me to attend GT next autumn. Anyways, here is my first list. I already have the models, but accept the fact that getting used to any new army takes some trial and error (which is even more common when new to a game system), so will take a few games to get to grips with. Anyways, here it is. Any suggestions would be much welcomed.

Heroes
Lord of Slaanesh
Mark of Slaanesh, Pendant of Slaanesh, Blade of blood, Enchanted Shield, Steed of Chaos, Gaze of the gods (336pts)

2x Lvl 2 Sorcerer of Chaos
Mark of Slaanesh, Hand Weapon, Chaos Armour, Dispell Scroll (165 each)

Core Troops

12 Warriors
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (230)

12 Chosen
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (302)

5 Knights
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (235)

22 Marauders
Flails, Chieftan, Musician, Standard Bearer (145)

Chariot of Chaos Mark of Slaanesh (130)

Chariot of Chaos Mark of Slaanesh (130)

Rare Units

2 Spawn Fiends of Slaanesh (Move 3d6") (150)

TOTAL 2000pts exactly

Makarion
30-11-2007, 00:38
It's probably well worth it to get your heroes on barded steeds - that's 2 more armour save for each of them, and they still can be part of an infantry unit without being picked out (in 7th edition, at least). And should it come to it and your unit is about to crumble, you can pull them out and to safety, whereas at Mv 4 there's be little chance at survival for them.

To make points free for that I'd suggest getting rid of the musicians on your infantry units.

MildlyAbrasive
30-11-2007, 23:43
I'm assuming that your infantry is coming in units of 12 because you plan to field them 4x3. However, as of 7th edition, you now need 5 models for a rank, not 4. Therefore, 4x3 is a very poor arrangement now. You should reconsider your army considering. If you dropped the chosen upgrade, that may be just about the right number of points to increase both units to 15 strong.

Dead Man Walking
01-12-2007, 01:00
I find that the nifty slice and dice watch my wounds and attacks go sky high lord is nice but if he's not slicing something up nearly every turn it tends not to make its points back, espeacially if you tactically get put in a position where your afraid to charge, however if you do you want to be on slaanesh worm for 20" charge.

That being said I prefer a lord mage(On slaanesh worm just because I like the model) and a level 2 mage on barded steed. With slaanesh your strength is in the spells, which have a 100% effect on the tactics used in the game. With this combo I can toss out lots more spells.

I dont take slaanesh chariots because they are immune to psychology and can not flee charges, which handycaps your tactics. Now with ASF elves I might conscider one without the marks. After watching 1 unit of 10 skinks blast away a charging spawn I put the spawn away forever.

dnt forget the banner of slaanesh that drops enemies ws and initiative, people hate that thing.

I do take 20 beastmen herd for skirmish unit to screen my army. I also take furies, 1 unit of chosen knights, 2 units of 20 warriors, 1 unit of 20 mauraders with helm of many eyes great weapon hero. The knights butcher if you get them into combat and then cast the frenzy spell on them.

Deathwing_Matt
01-12-2007, 08:46
I'm assuming that your infantry is coming in units of 12 because you plan to field them 4x3. However, as of 7th edition, you now need 5 models for a rank, not 4. Therefore, 4x3 is a very poor arrangement now. You should reconsider your army considering. If you dropped the chosen upgrade, that may be just about the right number of points to increase both units to 15 strong.


Nope, that would just be stupid! I have fielded them 4x3 as not that many regiment boxes have caught up with the changes in rules, so are still in multiples of four... I plan to field them as a 2 ranks of 5, a sorcerer in the front rank, with a third rank of 3...

brambleten
01-12-2007, 11:16
where are the daemonettes????
if you are going to consider them, get some now as the new ones look just wrong. if you dropped the spawns you should have space for 10 of them

Dead Man Walking
01-12-2007, 15:44
I never liked deamonettes, without banner they cost too much for what they do.

And they dont sell them in packs of 15 because they make more money selling them in packs of 12. Why else would they sell dwarfs in packs of 16 instead of 20?

Deathwing_Matt
01-12-2007, 20:49
And they dont sell them in packs of 15 because they make more money selling them in packs of 12. Why else would they sell dwarfs in packs of 16 instead of 20?

An extremely cynical view. Remember, the regiment boxes have not changed since the new edition has been released last year and the rules change regarding rank sizes. But anyways, this isn't another thread for a GW profit maximising discussion, but one to assess the army list above...

Xzazzarai
01-12-2007, 21:40
An extremely cynical view. Remember, the regiment boxes have not changed since the new edition has been released last year and the rules change regarding rank sizes. But anyways, this isn't another thread for a GW profit maximising discussion, but one to assess the army list above...


Yeah, like GW can't change the ammount of units in the boxes along with updating books? ********.
C'mon, you know they don't change them to make money!

Deathwing_Matt
01-12-2007, 23:54
Well, to proverbally put the cat amongst the pigeons, hows about this for a revolutionary idea.

If they were trying to screw so much money out of you why have they stopped doing blister packs of three or so metal models, to be replaced by a 5 model strong unit boxed set as and when army books are released (jesus H tit-ty *********** christ, that might just be enough to make a rank...).

Remember that those regiments are plastics which all come on sprues. To redesign the sprue (note the sprue, and not the models themselves) ain't cheap. Times this by the range for an entire game system and the costs mount...

Dead Man Walking
02-12-2007, 02:00
You tell yourself what ever you need to sleep at night. Theres making profit and then there is -raping- your customers, for example why are there 16 HE spearmen when everyone fields 20? So you have to buy a box extra for 4 guys. GO GO GW! 2 units? 3 boxes.

Chaos warriors? 3 units of 20 guys will be 5 boxes of guys. Yay.

AT some point you loose potential customers when they make an army list and compare it to what they need to purchase and they blanch at the costs.

Makarion
02-12-2007, 02:04
If you insist of fielding 3 units of 20 chaos warriors, you are inviting the abuse, really.

wildkarrde0
02-12-2007, 06:53
There are 16 in a box because at the time of production 4x4 which was actually a good size for an unit. Now its not such a great number ( 15 isn't that bad though)and have chosen not to redo and pase that cost on the consumer. by the same arugment the question could said of the silver helms why are there 8 in the box when most units are field as 5-6 six modals or why just 12 chaos warriors etc

All it means when the modals were produce without considerartion for furture changes to the mechanics of the game.

Deathwing_Matt
03-12-2007, 10:11
Theres making profit and then there is -raping- your customers, for example why are there 16 HE spearmen when everyone fields 20? So you have to buy a box extra for 4 guys. GO GO GW! 2 units? 3 boxes.



EVERYONE fields twenty, didn't you know. Let's do drugs, EVERYONE is doing it. wtf? That one word in an argument is the one way someone will never give a convincing argument ;) I bet you I could walk into any gaming club or GW and find someone who doesn't use 20 strong units of elfs. In fact, I played one on Friday night... The thing is, the size of units can vary so greatly in Warhammer that its very difficult to provide a box that will suit everyone's differing unit sizes with one box... The only way you could do it is pic and mix modelling, which can't be done with plastic sprues easily, and the cost per unit would be higher for the customer too.




All it means when the modals were produce without considerartion for furture changes to the mechanics of the game.

Which is extremely difficult to do, especially if said box is released years before. If they thought, hmmm in 5 years time we might have a change to the rank system, everyone at the time of release would ask "Why the bloody hell are they chosing to sell me extra models Ill never use? Help, help, Im being oppressed, they're 'raping' me..." It's pretty difficult to see all outcomes, and doesn't make sense to change a release for something which is far, far from occuring. It's a bit like saying, I'll give myself a blood transfusion now incase I get hit by a bus when I go out today.

In fact, if you end up with an extra handful of models you don't want, either a) Ebay is your friend, or b) Keep them incase of any future rule changes/army book updates, so you can alter your army accordingly...

Nargrakhan
03-12-2007, 21:09
And they dont sell them in packs of 15 because they make more money selling them in packs of 12. Why else would they sell dwarfs in packs of 16 instead of 20?

LOL! :D

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_350.html

MarcoPollo
04-12-2007, 00:40
Check out this kit for a slaanesh lord.

Slaanesh lord, chaos steed, bindings of slaanesh, and rending sword. You can hold up fully ranked units on their own for a turn while you smash up a unit champion. Or just speed off and pick on that skaven grey seer that thinks it can escape your lord by refusing a challenge.

Nargrakhan
04-12-2007, 14:21
Check out this kit for a slaanesh lord.

I've always been partial to the level 4 Exalted Sorcerer of Slaanesh with a Chaos Daemon Sword and Talisman of Protection on a barded Chaos steed (or Chariot).

Sure... things can really suck if the sword hits you on some bad rolls... but by the Dark Prince: it's a killing machine on so many levels.

And besides... self inflicted pain is sooooo Slaanesh. :D

MarcoPollo
04-12-2007, 23:56
I've always been partial to the level 4 Exalted Sorcerer of Slaanesh with a Chaos Daemon Sword and Talisman of Protection on a barded Chaos steed (or Chariot).

Sure... things can really suck if the sword hits you on some bad rolls... but by the Dark Prince: it's a killing machine on so many levels.

And besides... self inflicted pain is sooooo Slaanesh. :D

This can be quite a good combo at times but can also be quite bad. I tried it a few times but found myself unsure of when to engage in combat and when to sit back and pound away with magic. I think that it is a very expensive set-up for such a conflicting character.

Briohmar
05-12-2007, 19:31
Oh come now Marco, there's only one spell in the lore that does physical, line of sight type damage, and its only 12" range. Don't get me wrong, I love to Bliss out a warmachine crew and watch my opponent go "its strength what?!" But the rest of the spells don't require you to stay out of the fight.

I myself prefer to leave my casters as pure casters with some combat ability, come on, its a wizard with 2 WS5 S4 attacks, but if you're gonna do it, do it right, go for the spell familiar instead of the chinsy ward save, put him on a steed, and watch him make some of those 2+ armor saves. With the familiar he now has 5 of the six spells in the lore, if you roll delectable torture and not a 1 make that change, but otherwise they're all good.

As for Marco's lord kit, You know, I hadn't considered that particular mix before, it is pretty nasty. Generally I don't add a lord until I hit 3K or higher however, so I don't really think about it all that much. That would surely do a number on those hard to deal with Vampire lords with the book of etherwealness (man I hate those guys.)

As to the 12 in a box warriors, well, they've been that way since they were first released, and I rarely ever boost a unit beyond 12 anyways, I just use them in 2 ranks of 6 now, instead of 3 ranks of 4. But they did make the cheap boxes of 3 snap tight warriors that they sold in the UK and Europe, and they are certainly a cost effective way to build up to 15.

W0lf
05-12-2007, 20:18
Exalted slaanesh sorc with daemon sword is sick.. lvl 4 caster with lore of slaanesh = sick as.

Thou on the list:


Heroes
Lord of Slaanesh
Mark of Slaanesh, Pendant of Slaanesh, Blade of blood, Enchanted Shield, Steed of Chaos, Gaze of the gods (336pts)

Fine, everyone loves this kit on a slaaneshi lord. Its really cool but who attacks a chaos lord anyway??? Just break his unit and then run him down.... its elementary. Exalted sorc + Exalted is better then lord + sorc imo.


2x Lvl 2 Sorcerer of Chaos
Mark of Slaanesh, Hand Weapon, Chaos Armour, Dispell Scroll (165 each)

Cool. Get them barded steeds thou for the 2+ save.


Core Troops

12 Warriors
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (230)

12 Chosen
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (302)

2 units of 12 is not as effective as one unit of 24 imo. Plus whilst chosen seem worth their points i dont think nilla warriors are. Try:

22 Chosen warriors
FC, Shields, MoS,

512 pts.


5 Knights
Mark of Slaanesh, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer (235)

Its all about the chosen. Make them chosen, give them the rap and add a now mounted wizard.


22 Marauders
Flails, Chieftan, Musician, Standard Bearer (145)

Pointless imo. Flails is also a terrible choice for marauders, GW are better in everyway, LA + shield even more so.


Chariot of Chaos Mark of Slaanesh (130)

Chariot of Chaos Mark of Slaanesh (130)

Lose the mark, its worthless.


Rare Units

2 Spawn Fiends of Slaanesh (Move 3d6") (150)

good good :D

So id try:

Heroes
Exalted Sorcerer of Slaanesh
Mark of Slaanesh, Barded Steed, Daemon Sword, Lvl 4
396 pts

Exalted Champion
MoS, Halberd, Barded Steed
140 pts

Lvl 2 Sorcerer of Chaos
Mark of Slaanesh, Barded Steed, Dispel Scroll,
181 pts

Core Troops
18 Chosen warriors
FC, Shields, MoS, Raptorus Standard
478 pts.

5 Knights
Mark of Slaanesh, FC
240 pts

5 Knights
Mark of Slaanesh, FC
240 pts

Chariot of Chaos
120 pts

Chariot of Chaos
120 pts

Rare Units
1 Spawn Fiend of Slaanesh
75 pts

1990 pts

something like that looks better imo.

Exalted sorc + Exalted > Lord + sorc imo. especially with the daemon sword....

Oh and if you dont like the daemon sword then runesword + Gaze is also a viable option for a exalted sorc.