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Avatar of the Eldar
30-11-2007, 16:39
As I promised in some of the army list threads, I'm sharing my experiences with the new HE list.

Im disappointed to report that my first outing was not an auspicious one. In short I was rolled up like a cheap rug by the top of Turn 3.

There were two major factors: 1) I was playing against a really top notch player (having won Best Overall at the Alamo Indy earlier this month) with a fairly powerful list and 2) my dice were consistently below average particularly in the magic phase. It just started out unfavorable and stayed that way.

Ill summarize for the sake of time

My List:
Archmage Lvl 4, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury, Sacred Incense and Scroll
Mage Lvl 2, Seerstaff, Scroll
Noble BSB HA, Sh, Barded Steed, Sword of Might, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec, Bow.
22 Spears + FC + Warbanner
23 Spears + FC
14 White Lions + FC + Banner of Sorcery
14 Swordmasters + FC + Skeinsliver Shard
2 Lion Chariots
2 RBTs
Eagle

His list (Beasts of Nurgle)
Shaggoth GW
3 Lvl 2 Brayshamen 2 powerstones and a power familiar
3 x 15 (8G/7UG) Beastherds
4 (fricken) beast chariots
3 Chaos Trolls
3 Dragon Ogres w/GW + LA
3 Chaos Ogres HA, GW, Sh, Mu
6 Furies
2 x 5 Chaos Hounds

Im deployed, from my left to right:
WL (in woods) RBT Chariot 22 spears w/ BSB SMs w/Archmage 23 Spears w/Warbanner and Mage Chariot RBT on hill and Eagles on either flank.

Hes deployed, from my left to right:
Hounds Building Trolls DOs Shaggoth Herd w/Shaman just behind difficult terrain in center of the board 2 chariots Ogres 2 chariots Herd w/Shaman behind the last 3 units Furies behind hill Herd w/Shaman behind same hill Hounds

Despite a +2 for the roll off (deployed first and Skeinsliver) I roll a one. He goes first.

Basically, he just rolled across the board with the hitty stuff in the middle, fast units on flanks and herds behind in the second wave chaperoning the shamen. He had 8 PD, all 3 casters with Lore of Beast and he continued to throw lots of little spells at me especially Crows Feast which, against T3 Swordmasters can hurt when forced to make repeated saves. My saving grace was that he whiffed some of those rolls in turn one and I burned a scroll to shut down the one that go through.
In my turn I whiffed most of my magic and shooting, leaving him dangerously intact.
After that he moved to within my charge range but with favorably position for his units to support one another. I pushed in because his stuff on my flanks did not allow me the time to hang back. Besides, I had to get the charge off on those lion chariots as they are not ASF and lose impact his receiving a charge.

Ill spare you the tedious details. Suffice to say that his quadruple chariot charge routed a Lion Chariot, 23 Spears w/Warbanner and the Swordmasters all within range of the BSB. That, was in part, my bad because I malpositioned my chariot and in part because my dispel and drain magic rolls didnt keep Crows Feast from whittling down my Swordmasters.

Over on the left, my WLs failed to polish off the DOs giving the redirected Trolls time to get back in the fight (they made all 3 stupidity tests on their own leadership!). And the Shaggoth got magically accelerated into the flank of my 23 spears with BSB. My one bit of good luck his Shaggoth only did one wound was negated by the fact that I forgot to challenge with my BSB and use the Talisman of Loec. Still, at best, it would have been only 3 wounds on a 7 wound monster, my spears having done squat.

Afterwards, I asked my opponent, who is as very good and opinionated player, what I could have done differently and his reply was Not much, aside from pushing my right chariot out too far.

What I did realize later is that I should have focused all magic and RBTs on those chariots. Even if Id taken one from each pair it would have made a HUGE difference. My combined SM/Spear front could have handled two and had I held that chariot back it could have dealt with the beast herd or the Chaos Ogres in the next wave.

Thats my biggest learning. That and buy new dice. That doesnt make for compelling reading but they cant all be gems, folks.

brambleten
30-11-2007, 19:47
shouldnt this be in battle reports?
that seems prety unfortunate that you messe up that badly with your magic, but these things happen. one of the golden rules for HEs is that if you face something hitty, take a dragon. if a dragon isnt available, take Teclis or Tyrion :D

Avatar of the Eldar
30-11-2007, 21:06
shouldnt this be in battle reports?
that seems prety unfortunate that you messe up that badly with your magic, but these things happen. one of the golden rules for HEs is that if you face something hitty, take a dragon. if a dragon isnt available, take Teclis or Tyrion :D

Yes, my bad. First time posting a batrep at Warseer. Hopefully someone will move it.

But to your comment. It's a tourney list, I'm not ready to build a list around a dragon and we don't use special characters. But I hear you. A dragon would have sent many of his units scurring on psych tests alone.

EvC
30-11-2007, 23:12
Does he usually take 4 chariots, or did he tailor it to take you on?

CHOOBER SNIPES
30-11-2007, 23:33
mayb try takin a noble with horse and star lance. put him in spears, and then charge out into a chariot, S7 so he hits once and pretty much kills it. then combined with as much shooting and magic at those as possible u can most likely weather the charges with minimal chance of dying horribly. also, keep the SM's a little back lik 3 inches or so behind and to the flank of spears. this way u can actually flee with them if he actually charges them, and if he does, hes now out of position on a failed charge with spears ready to beat up the chariot. if he doesnt, when the chariot engages the spears the SM's can flank and destroy the chariot horribly, or if the situation is under control, move on in safety. A dragon would be nice, as chaos has NO shooting other than hellcannon which is kinda rare to see. then the dragon could easily fly around terroring the low LD beastherds cus u hav a bit of magic for defense.

Dead Man Walking
30-11-2007, 23:33
You should field the lions banner in a white lions unit, since fear and terror are the only chink in a stubborn units armor.

Avatar of the Eldar
01-12-2007, 04:10
Does he usually take 4 chariots, or did he tailor it to take you on?

Yes, this is his all-comers and will be his tourney list for the next year starting with the Hillbilly.

Flypaper
01-12-2007, 04:25
Well, the obvious problem is that you've got a static army without much "reach" outside of your magic phase. If your opponent has enough magic defense to dispel a couple of spells a turn, then all he's really got to worry about are a couple of bolt-thrower shots. Meanwhile, he's got enough time to redeploy to one of your flanks and roll you up. Against a gunline you're even worse off, as your opponent can just sit back and shoot you to pieces.

Additionally, your infantry line's simply too long and without enough support/impact troops. M5 isn't enough to counter-charge consistently, meaning that you've only got the two Lion Chariots to threaten the flanks of any spearhead type focused attack.

I'd say you badly need more troops that can hurt enemy mobility in the first few turns of the game. That means another eagle, Reavers or some Shadow Warriors.

...Having said all that, the dice being against you clearly didn't help either. :o

brambleten
01-12-2007, 12:07
you are put at a larger disadvantage than most other armies by taking no special characters. take caradryan in combat against the shaggoth. d3 wounds, and then if he dies, the d6 wounds with no armour saves, always striking first. id say that would be quite a good use of 175 points, but there is no need to upset the balance at your club or whereever you play

CHOOBER SNIPES
01-12-2007, 14:45
yea remember brambleten that i dont think hes tailoring a list, just improving a little on the list in general and asking for tactics to use with this army, not in the army's composition. mayb im wrong tho whatever still tho, caradryan could hav helped a bit, especially in th shaggoth case u put forth. consider mayb tailoring characters to specific duties, lik monster killing, disruption, horde killers, etc

Neknoh
01-12-2007, 18:42
Banner of Sorcery on Swordsmasters, Lion Standard on White Lions and then maybe that White Lion special character to stay in theme and have some extra punch added to the WL unit

Prince Sairion
01-12-2007, 20:10
This is so close to what I use (inc characters and magic items) it's scary.

I take a few less in my sm and wl units, and have a unit of archers and dragon princes for one of the spears units (and a few extra points salvaged elsewhere.)

The only thing I worry about nowadays is chariots, and for them I bring the DP's and my own lion chariots.

Beasts are a very hard army to play against when they are played properly, lots of movement and flexibility.

Tutore
01-12-2007, 20:13
It's a good list, perhaps your opponent played really well.