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soul destroyer
01-12-2007, 01:37
I was wondering do the imperial guard have any ships not the flying sort but the ye olde floating type? and are there any pictures?
I only ask because I have just picked up a 1/72 scale 'snowberry' corvette kit (its a sort of ww2 mine sweeper/escort craft) and was thinking of converting it into an IG patrol boat with lascannons,armour plating etc like a two foot long floating baneblade.

And before you all start shouting 'hows that going to work on the gaming table' I should explain its also being fitted with rc gear for use down my local river.

(maybe this should be in the modeling forum )

Rabid Bunny 666
01-12-2007, 01:39
They should have boats, there was a reference to an IG Submarine in a WD, it was when the 3rd edition 'nids were just released.

catbarf
01-12-2007, 01:46
I remember fluff in the Tyranid codex about an ocean liner.

Winimperial
01-12-2007, 02:11
There are also references and pics on the GW website of Imperial Landing craft for some beach landing scenarios that are there.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/scenarios-index/4/

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/scenarios-index/3/

soul destroyer
01-12-2007, 02:19
There are also references and pics on the GW website of Imperial Landing craft for some beach landing scenarios that are there.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/scenarios-index/4/

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer40000/scenarios-index/3/

Thanks, that rusted half wrecked look was just what I had in mind.

Justicar_Freezer
01-12-2007, 03:59
I remember way back when at one of the games days. I think it was GD 95 or maybe 96. It was the one where dark elves where the big thing. There was this amazing 40k table called The Wreck of the Exxon Valdez. It had imperial guard defending this huge scratch built oil derrick with patrol boat, destroyers, and frogmen against Orks with a submarine, and a huge aircraft carrier. I think most of the stuff was just VDRed or made up for that game but it was great fun.

The Gothic Me
01-12-2007, 06:37
After seeing the way the Imperial Guard super size tanks, I've always wanted to see what they'd do for battleships.

Kasonic
01-12-2007, 06:47
I've always wondered what a real 40k Imperial Navy would look like.

Because really, even Titans are dwarfed by the firepower of a real battleship.

A 1983 Iowa-class battleship armament:

32 Cruise Missiles(Hunter Killers)
16 Harpoon Missiles
3 Batteries of 3 16-inch guns(I'm thinking Mega Earthshaker)
12 5-inch guns(Autocannons?)
4 CIWS Gatling guns(AC's)

or, actually, their WW2 armament was even crazier:

3 Batteries of 3 16-inch guns
20 5-inch guns
80 40mm AA guns
49 20mm AA guns

That's a lot of Heavy Bolters.

Mr Zephy
01-12-2007, 09:12
Yeah, ships don't have to worry about sinking into the ground under their own weight supported on two feet.

ArtificerArmour
01-12-2007, 12:07
There's reference to taking an island in Ghostmaker, where basically they say they use aircraft to drop off troops on the beach before whizzing away (vultures?).

Basically, Chimeara's are amphibious to begin with, so I'd imagine they'd no doubt be an STC somewhere to put on some propellors and put the rear exit at the front. It'd be a nice project to do.

sigur
01-12-2007, 12:48
I think it was the times of the Armageddon 3 campaign, they had an Imperial Destroyer in a WD. It was all scratchbuilt and I don't remember if the rules they used in the game were printed in WD...

WLBjork
01-12-2007, 13:08
They had a "Gunboat" at one GD IIRC. Sounded a bit naff though.

I'd be surprised if they didn't have boats on some worlds, although I'd expect them to be more akin to the Vietnam era Monitor.

Kasonic - 5" guns would be roughly equivalent to the Battlecannon. As the USA used DP 5" guns, they would have an AA mount as well.

Clockwork-Knight
01-12-2007, 13:21
I think that water vessels are rather properties of the local Planetary Defense Forces, who do have their own ground armies, airforce and navy, and that they share them with the Imperial Guard forces on the planet.

One thing to consider is that you play the Imperial Guard, not the PDF.

The_Outsider
01-12-2007, 17:18
Well someone did model a ship crewed by orks.

"Titanork" IIRC.

Lord Cook
02-12-2007, 02:16
Clockwork-Knight makes a good point. It's likely that the PDF on any world with large bodies of water would possess a maritime navy, including surface and submersible ships. This is referenced in the tyranid backstory, and elsewhere.

The Imperial Guard would not. Ships are far more impractical to transport (especially as many would collapse in on themselves without the support of being in water). Also, what would be the point? Unless the world in question had underwater cities or some such, the Guard would find it far easier and more practical to just stage an orbital assault directly onto a particular landmass.

Nazguire
02-12-2007, 04:00
I always assumed that in that day and age, naval craft would be obsolete when compared to space craft and massive application of air power and sub orbital landing craft.

Lord Cook
02-12-2007, 06:57
Naval craft are extremely efficient, because they can just float there without any need for external power, unlike a huge spacecraft that would require constant fuel to stay airborne. And as a huge mobile gun platform, nothing beats a conventional surface ship, so long as you don't need to move off planet. Hence PDF only.

Adept
02-12-2007, 07:36
Naval craft are extremely efficient, because they can just float there without any need for external power, unlike a huge spacecraft that would require constant fuel to stay airborne. And as a huge mobile gun platform, nothing beats a conventional surface ship, so long as you don't need to move off planet. Hence PDF only.

Yeah, but they're never going to be able to mount sufficient weapons and defensive systems to be anything other than a large, expensive and vulnerable target.

I also think naval craft would be almost totally obsolete in the 41st millennium.

Nazguire
02-12-2007, 09:40
Naval craft are extremely efficient, because they can just float there without any need for external power, unlike a huge spacecraft that would require constant fuel to stay airborne. And as a huge mobile gun platform, nothing beats a conventional surface ship, so long as you don't need to move off planet. Hence PDF only.

As opposed to an orbiting battleship with weaponry as long as the battleship? That can also ferry troops back and forth anywhere on the planet with minimum hassle and effort?

Lord Cook
02-12-2007, 12:31
As opposed to an orbiting battleship with weaponry as long as the battleship? That can also ferry troops back and forth anywhere on the planet with minimum hassle and effort?

Which would be Imperial Navy. I thought we were talking about Imperial Guard / Planetary Defense Forces.

And surface ships are wonderfully low tech, easily maintained and built. Space capable Battleships are often thousands of years old, with barely understood technology and vast resources required for their construction and launch. Hardly suitable for everyday run-of-the-mill planetary defense (Holy Terra excepted).

soul destroyer
03-12-2007, 00:27
Thanks for all the imput. Now having thought about it some more it seems making the ship part of a pdf force rather than out and out IG is the way to go.
For weaponry its going to have twin lascannons fore and aft, may use FW platforms for this, and quad stubbers behind the bridge for AA defence (just because I already have them)
Most of the super structure will have to be scrapped as its way out of scale and replaced with scratch built items,as for the crew I will use a few catachan for that bandana wearing pirate/vietnam look
Having built a few large scale ships before I can confidently predict constrution will not take less than a year so dont expect pictures any time soon!

Lord Cook
03-12-2007, 12:43
Good luck with it, it sounds cool.

DapperAnarchist
03-12-2007, 16:28
I'd say that Naval forces would be very popular among PDFs. Lets say you're planning to defend Earth, today, against alien attack, including 'nid invasion. You need to be able to knock out incoming landers and spores. While a major part of that would be ground based lasers and missiles, you'd also need a more mobile force that can attack those forces that get past the anti-orbital defences. For 70% of the surface, that requires aircraft carriers. Also, even now we could build something that verges on anti-orbital weaponry that can be mounted on a ship - and is therefore mobile, and harder to target. And the simplicity of a ship means you can avoid dealing with those creepy techpriests a bit more!

Killgore
03-12-2007, 16:58
this is the imperium we'r talking about! im sure theres crazy huge orbital seaship carriers that fly into the oceans of worlds and disgorge the fleets of the emperor

Clockwork-Knight
03-12-2007, 17:19
Why should one try to avoid the Techpriests from the Mechanicus? Sure, they're creepy, but they do know their handywork, at least in the field of battle.

DapperAnarchist
03-12-2007, 19:40
They're considered heretical but necessary by many. Imagine a crusader knight having to co-operate with da Vinci (who was agnostic), but da Vinci doesn't even look human and smells funny.

Luthien
03-12-2007, 19:42
this is the imperium we'r talking about! im sure theres crazy huge orbital seaship carriers that fly into the oceans of worlds and disgorge the fleets of the emperor

well, stranger things have happened

Brother Siccarius
03-12-2007, 20:03
Basically, Chimeara's are amphibious to begin with, so I'd imagine they'd no doubt be an STC somewhere to put on some propellors and put the rear exit at the front. It'd be a nice project to do.

I'd probably be propelled in the same way as the "Amphibious" tanks used in WWII.
-----

As for the fire power of a gunship...it's really not all that great. Considering that the larger the gun, the larger the boat, the larger the boat the more clearance it needs underneath to not run aground on a reef/sand banks/rocks. So it'd have to be pretty far out to sea to be able to use a larger gun, which keeps it to around the same range as it would have had using a smaller gun and a smaller boat.

The farthest range you'll get is using a long range, self-propelled ballistic of some kind, like a missile, but you'd have to have some kind of spotters to give guidance to the target. So having some kind of ship is less effective than just using landers and air support from orbit (which really only serves the purpose of suppression rather than extermination).


I'd say that Naval forces would be very popular among PDFs. Lets say you're planning to defend Earth, today, against alien attack, including 'nid invasion. You need to be able to knock out incoming landers and spores. While a major part of that would be ground based lasers and missiles, you'd also need a more mobile force that can attack those forces that get past the anti-orbital defences. For 70% of the surface, that requires aircraft carriers. Also, even now we could build something that verges on anti-orbital weaponry that can be mounted on a ship - and is therefore mobile, and harder to target. And the simplicity of a ship means you can avoid dealing with those creepy techpriests a bit more!

Actually, air support is still superior to naval in many ways. Aircraft carriers are only for short range missions, and by the time you're in place to attack something that's falling from orbit, it's already down on the ground. Bombers and things like that (which would be more effective against the Nids or an alien attack) are long ranged, meaning that most of the bombers that were Bombing the Afghanistan mountains a while back (and actually still today) fly out of bases in the US.

Clockwork-Knight
04-12-2007, 00:41
They're considered heretical but necessary by many. Imagine a crusader knight having to co-operate with da Vinci (who was agnostic), but da Vinci doesn't even look human and smells funny.And yet, the Space Marines even send some of their own to a Forgeworld, so that he might learn the arcane knowledge of the machine.

Keep in mind that the Space Marines have their own interpretation of the Imperial Creed. For them, the Emperor is a Man, not a God. He's the mightiest and most praise-worthy man there is in the galaxy, but he's still only a man. It's the normal humans who have problems with the belief of the Space Marines. Normal humans are certain that the Emperor is a God first and foremost.

The Adeptus Mechanicus are not seen as heretical priests of a deviant religion by the Space Marines, but as ancient allies who provide them their holy equipment, their pact dating further back then the Ecclessiarchy.

The Adeptus Mechanicus are wizards with dark secrets and mastery over machines. To be sent to become an adept of the Omnissiah is a great honour. These Techmarines are held in superstitious awe and great esteem, like their Librarian brethrens.

Of course, this doesn't have to apply to normal humans dealing with the Adeptus Mechanicus, though. :p