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View Full Version : Characters in DOW units. Legal or not?



elite_dannux
01-12-2007, 08:32
After reading some threads at warhammer-empire it seems that it is legal to put an empire character in a DOW unit?

Example Warrior priest in a unit of Pikemen.

Personally i feel that such a combo would almost be gamebreaking but is it RAW?

What do you think about this?

Makarion
01-12-2007, 09:16
Don't see why not, but you cannot start the battle that way I believe. Nothing that prevents you from running into the unit during turn 1, of course, other than style.

Should you feel it's inappropriate, I'll applaud you for your restraint if you don't do it, but it's not mandated by the rules, as far as I know.

Borthcollective
04-12-2007, 20:47
Simple answer. Use your army troops instead of filling holes with DOW.

stashman
04-12-2007, 21:11
Can yo have a a Maneater unit (DOW) with a orc/goblin shaman. Superb bodyguard with Immune to psychology, Stubborn and no chance for Animosity!

Cheezy??? Legal???

Makarion
04-12-2007, 21:13
If you were to play me I'd encourage it. That triples the cost of your shaman.

Note that units that are unbreakable cannot be joined by non-unbreakable characters (and vice versa), but I am not sure whether this also applies to ItP models. And my books aren't at hand....

ZeroTwentythree
04-12-2007, 21:17
Simple answer. Use your army troops instead of filling holes with DOW.


:rolleyes:

DOW are a perfectly legitimate option and contrary to "filling holes," I would assume he's going with a themed army, since there are plenty of core empire infantry that can do a better job than pikemen.

Borthcollective
04-12-2007, 21:47
:rolleyes:

DOW are a perfectly legitimate option and contrary to "filling holes," I would assume he's going with a themed army, since there are plenty of core empire infantry that can do a better job than pikemen.

Legal yes, legitimate that's questionable.

I really don't feel the DOW are well thought out. I'm also having a hard time connecting a theme with War Priests and Pikemen.

ZeroTwentythree
04-12-2007, 22:11
Quite a few people like to use pikes in their Empire army to give it a more of the landsknecht flavor on which the army was based in the first place. The site/forum he mentioned recently featured multiple articles on converting empire pikemen.

I still fail to see how they are any less legitimate than any other troops in the game. I'll agree, the DOW are generally not well thought out, but they are no worse than other troops in the game by a long shot.

I don't like magic heavy games. Therefore someone taking an army meant to dominate and win through the magic phase is not "legitimate?"

sulla
05-12-2007, 07:03
I don't like magic heavy games. Therefore someone taking an army meant to dominate and win through the magic phase is not "legitimate?"

Now you're getting it... If you don't like it, then it's not legitimate... That's the internet way. Go internet bullyboys!

Damocles8
05-12-2007, 12:58
I don't see anything wrong with starting out having an Empire War Priest in a DoW unit....I mean they are mercenaries and really don't care who fights with them....

mistformsquirrel
05-12-2007, 13:33
I don't see anything wrong with starting out having an Empire War Priest in a DoW unit....I mean they are mercenaries and really don't care who fights with them....

My thoughts exactly.

Dogs of War basically mean 2 things:

1) They are a cool thematic option that really makes a ton of sense. If you look at the real world, even today, mercenaries are quite common. People willing to fight for gold have been around as long as fighting and gold!

2) They let you add something your army doesn't usually have. Some claim this is a bad thing; but I honestly think its a fantastic idea. It means that no army except the Brettonians, who are simply too proud, has to be without any particular given type of unit. However none of the Dogs of War units are all that spectacular, so while they may give you a unit you couldn't usually take, you're A) Using up a Rare slot, B) Getting something most people's Core does as well or better.

They also provide a 3rd element of theme:

Any DOW unit you take can easily be made to thematically fit your army's look. Taking Cannons in a Chaos Army? Crew em with Chaos Dwarves and give them arcane sigils. And they don't shoot cannonballs - but rather blasts of malignant warp energy! A little modeling can take these options quite far imho.

So if its legal, and you can make it fun, why not?

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-12-2007, 13:34
Well, there is a Q&A out saying you can't. Granted, I don't know what book it would be in these days, but when it was answered, the answer was that no, you couldn't.

Borthcollective
05-12-2007, 14:33
Now you're getting it... If you don't like it, then it's not legitimate... That's the internet way. Go internet bullyboys!

Does this mean I win? Awesome.

I wasn't trying to bully anyone, I just personally hate the idea of DOW. I don't have any problems with themes, or mercs, or anything else, but I feel the way that GW has implemented DOW doesn't feel like they even worked on them at all. Many of the choices actually feel like they go against Warhammer lore even.

I'm sorry that I got this thread off track, with my comment, most of the time I keep it to myself, I guess I should have this time also.

Shadow-Under-Rock
05-12-2007, 20:41
I think that you should be able to put Characters in DOW regiments, and when it comes to warrior priests then couldn’t you say that the pike men believe in sigmar?
as I have understood it Simaritism (?) quite a big religion.

But what about the opposite? I like to have a DOW mage in my Orc-n-goblin (mainly orcs) army, he’s sculpted to have pirate look and uses the lore of heavens to either bombard the enemy or assist my biguns in CC.
this may be a bit cheesy, but he really fits in with the army and it’s fun to have more than one lore

Atrahasis
05-12-2007, 21:48
Well, there is a Q&A out saying you can't. Granted, I don't know what book it would be in these days, but when it was answered, the answer was that no, you couldn't.

I don't think that was actually ever published - it was part of the infamous Anthony Reynolds St Patrick's Day Online Q&A Fiasco.

Sunfang
05-12-2007, 22:24
If the Army book alots the allowance of DoW than I dont see why you wouldnt be allowed tot ake them, thats what they are there for and as previously stated you are giving up a rare slot for whatever mediocore DoW unit your taking.

So why wouldnt a character be able to join a unit in your army ragardless of the fact that they are hired hands or not. Perhaps he has joined the unit to ensure they actually fight, look at tit that way.

stashman
06-12-2007, 00:17
I think that you should be able to put Characters in DOW regiments, and when it comes to warrior priests then couldn’t you say that the pike men believe in sigmar?
as I have understood it Simaritism (?) quite a big religion.

But what about the opposite? I like to have a DOW mage in my Orc-n-goblin (mainly orcs) army, he’s sculpted to have pirate look and uses the lore of heavens to either bombard the enemy or assist my biguns in CC.
this may be a bit cheesy, but he really fits in with the army and it’s fun to have more than one lore

Where can I see that a DOW wizard can be used in a orc and goblin army. I play orcs and in the armybuilder there is only regements of reknown and other units, but I can't see any characters to choose.

Can someone link me to "legal uses" on the internet.

Sorry if I have missed something, but help me out. I have thought of having a wizard that fools the orcs for war (Sauroman theme) with his tricky magic.

Makarion
06-12-2007, 00:49
DoW characters can never be chosen, unless they are part of a RoR - and no wizards are. The only way to play DoW characters is to play a DoW army.

Shadow-Under-Rock
06-12-2007, 06:03
hmm, I only looked in the DoW rules and didnīt find anything that said that i couldnīt take a character as a hero and rare choise in any other army than DoW, but then I didnīt look to closely.
Thanks for making me realise the error of my ways.

Crazy Harborc
07-12-2007, 01:10
I don't think 7th Edition has an answer to the question asked first.

In 6th Ed....and before, the answer was no...plus the armie's general's leadership could not be used by the DoW unit(s). Ditto for DoW characters going into whatever army hired the DoW troops.

By the by....In GW's campanion historical rules....mercs and allies do not use the hiring armies general's leadership...not allowed. NOT off subject WAB is a GW product.

sulla
07-12-2007, 04:05
Does this mean I win? Awesome.

I wasn't trying to bully anyone, I just personally hate the idea of DOW. I don't have any problems with themes, or mercs, or anything else, but I feel the way that GW has implemented DOW doesn't feel like they even worked on them at all. Many of the choices actually feel like they go against Warhammer lore even.

I'm sorry that I got this thread off track, with my comment, most of the time I keep it to myself, I guess I should have this time also.

Not at all. But some of us like the idea of mercenaries. The bit where you went wrong, in my ever so humble opinion, is that you cliamed they were somehow illegitimate. There's no basis for this claim whatsoever. You don't like mercenaries or the way warhammer implements them, that's fine but a vague claim of illegitimacy is always gonna raise ire on the internet. It's like people who claim an army is cheese. It's the subtle difference between offering an opinion (and hopefully evidence to back it up) and simply trying to batter the argument into submission. Your opinions are as welcome as anybody's but try to be a little descriptive and constructive.

Leogun_91
07-12-2007, 08:03
hmm, I only looked in the DoW rules and didnīt find anything that said that i couldnīt take a character as a hero and rare choise in any other army than DoW, but then I didnīt look to closely.
Thanks for making me realise the error of my ways.

Well you can still have Dow characters just not those Dow, look at truthsayers (Iīm taking one for my dwarfs), Dark emissary and Amazon serpent priestess. they take hero and rare choices and gives you some extra wizard levels.

kroq'gar
07-12-2007, 08:05
mmm. COuld a warrior priest use his hatred? (no DOW are sigmarite :D)

There needs to be more restrictions on DOW to prevent the gaps that allow ungamanship behaviour, but, if you can field a flyig circus...

memitchell747
08-12-2007, 20:15
The rules do not allow DoW characters to be hired but other than DoW armies. The Albion characters, and the Amazon Priestess are not DoW characters. Their rules make them DoW RoR which take up character slots, just as does Asrinal and the Goblin Hewer.

The rules do allow host army characters to join DoW units. More specifically, they do not disallow this. Yes, that could lead to some strange combinations, but common sense is assumed, even if it is not always evident. The rules do not exempt DoW from other basic army rules. So, DoW can use the host general's leadership, and they are subject to Panic caused by other units, etc...

Finally, an army book does not need a DoW entry for the army to use DoW. The DoW rules cover this, so it would be redundant, and the entry has been dropped in recent and future books.

As a general note, DoW are very, very legitimate. They have been around since before the last edition of the game.

Crazy Harborc
09-12-2007, 03:35
mmm. COuld a warrior priest use his hatred? (no DOW are sigmarite :D)

There needs to be more restrictions on DOW to prevent the gaps that allow ungamanship behaviour, but, if you can field a flyig circus...

Up to AND including no exchange of characters, I agree. I do not think DoW characters should be able to join a non-DoW unit. I do not think DoW units should be able to use the hiring armies general's leadership. I am not too sure I like the idea of hiring army characters leading DoW units. Still that part makes some sense. Even hiring army characters, who have joined the unit, having their leadership used instead of the DoW unit's.

Kerill
09-12-2007, 06:17
This used to be illegal but the pertaining document no longer exists so it is legal. You can't take DOW characters in other armies since the option is never given with the exception of the dark emissary and truthsayer.

Bretonnians can only take truthsayers/emissaries and fen beasts no other DOW.

Makarion
09-12-2007, 07:47
Of course, it's beardy enough to take any of the Albion stuff that you're almost guaranteed a 1 for Composition, unless you're fully themed that way... Especially dwarves and Khorn should stay far away from the spellcasters, in my opinion.

Kerill
09-12-2007, 08:17
I disagree a dark emissary (no fenbeasts) is very characterful in a chaos army as an undivided sorcerer.

Makarion
10-12-2007, 05:46
Eh, I'm perfectly onboard with you when it comes to using the models as proxies, but using the Dark Emissary with the actual Albion rules is a whole other deal.

Mouse_NJ
14-12-2007, 20:41
The Dark Emissary/ Truthsayer is a figure that's been under a lot of debate at the store I frequent. Many players feel its unfriendly to plop him down in a 1 off game without opponents consent. Me personally I feel if its a game of 3K or up, sure go for it. I'm sure in fluff wise we can all find a reason he'll help chaos or orcs. However, in a 2K game, I'm against it as the extra level 4 can really unbalance a magic phase for anyone. I actually really like the model and plan on adding an emissary one day, however will I use him. Probably not.

juample
14-12-2007, 22:36
i think it is perfectly legal to include a warrior priest in a pikemen unit. I dont see the problem. But here in Spain mostly tournaments forbid DOW as allies and many times as army too.