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LankyOgre
01-12-2007, 17:10
I have three chaplain questions, but they sort of fall under different aspects of the hobby so I didn't know where to put this. I'm planning on including a chaplain attached to a squad of assault marines, and I was thinking of possibly giving the chaplain lightning claws. Here's my questions:

1) According to the marine codex, when taking options from the armory, a model can only have 2 weapons. A pair of lightning claws counts as two weapons. Therefore can a chaplain not take 2 lightning claws, even if they somehow ditch the crozius arcanum?

2) Is there any reason in fluff that a Chaplain would or absolutely would not, take a pair of lightning claws?

3) Mostly in regards to the lightning claws, what would need to be different from a normal marine for a model to look good as a chaplain? Is just the armor color good enough (black armor, pale helmet) or is there more?


Thanks for your time and consideration.

leonmallett
01-12-2007, 17:20
1. For a Chaplain with Litanies of Hate (ie all bar Wolf Priests), twin LC's are a bit of a redundancy, other than the wound re-roll, especially as you have effectively paid already for a PW. I believe the Crozius would be lost in your example.

2. The fluff can reflect any unique choice you wish to make - it is your fluff.

3. Generally Chaplains have a lot of skull iconography, relics and black armour.

Takitron
01-12-2007, 17:34
You take the twin lightning claws to get the extra attack for an additional close combat weapon, you dont get that with a single claw and bolt pistol. (thanks Omniassiah)

I dont undersand the first part of the question. They dont HAVE to take anything from the Armoury (your use of not implies they have to). If you take the Twin lightning claws, you lose the Crozius.

Fluff wise, most people argue that the Crozius is a badge of office, why would they not take it. I say the rosarius is the badge of office, so is their black armour.

there are chaplain models that dont have arms, so you could put lightning claws on them. Its a pretty simple conversion. Basically, the armor and skulls. Usually a skull helmet, so good luck with that.

Omniassiah
01-12-2007, 18:04
you take the pair to get the bonus attack for an extra close combat weapon not for the charge Takitron.

leonmallett
01-12-2007, 18:32
The twin LC's are somewhat unneccessary in my view since the 'only' advantage over Crozius/BP is the wound re-roll.

Takitron
01-12-2007, 18:50
The twin LC's are somewhat unneccessary in my view since the 'only' advantage over Crozius/BP is the wound re-roll.

Only? thats a pretty good advantage :) Reroll to hit and to wound is mean, but plenty of people have run chappies without LC that its purely preference.

f2k
01-12-2007, 22:02
I don't think a Chaplain would go into battle without his Crozius Arcanum. It's his badge of office and an important symbol to this marines fighting alongside him.

Just my opinion, of course. The universe is, after all, a big place...

Iron Father
01-12-2007, 22:54
I don't think a Chaplain would go into battle without his Crozius Arcanum. It's his badge of office and an important symbol to this marines fighting alongside him.

Just my opinion, of course. The universe is, after all, a big place...

I get crap all the time from GW staff and other "purists" when fielding my LC Termie Chaplain. When it comes down to it, my rolling is balls, so rerolling both hits on the charge and wounds helps quite a bit.

As for the badge of office.... if the chaplain's opponent doesnt recognize him from the black armor and the skull motif alone, he wont be living long enough to check out the chappies badge ;)

Paul Nexus
01-12-2007, 22:56
I don't think a Chaplain would go into battle without his Crozius Arcanum. It's his badge of office and an important symbol to this marines fighting alongside him.

Just my opinion, of course. The universe is, after all, a big place...

It could be his badge of office without being his primary weapon. You could put a crozuis on the model, maybe hanging from the waist, or being held by one of the clawed hands, purely for modelling puposes.

Marshal Argos
01-12-2007, 23:18
I have three chaplain questions, but they sort of fall under different aspects of the hobby so I didn't know where to put this. I'm planning on including a chaplain attached to a squad of assault marines, and I was thinking of possibly giving the chaplain lightning claws. Here's my questions:

1) According to the marine codex, when taking options from the armory, a model can only have 2 weapons. A pair of lightning claws counts as two weapons. Therefore can a chaplain not take 2 lightning claws, even if they somehow ditch the crozius arcanum?


Yes he can take a pair of LC and still keep his Crozius. No where does it say that a model can only have 2 weapons. It says a model may only SELECT 2 weapons from the armoury, it never says that a model looses the weapons he has. This means that your chappie and libby could both have up to 3 weapons because they both come standard with 1 weapon.

Grazzy
02-12-2007, 11:38
I see no problem with running a TLC chappie. However, be warned that in a new marine codex they probably wont be an option.

Chimpeh
02-12-2007, 12:24
Don't forget that in 3rd edition the Salamander's Chaplain could take a Thunder Hammer as his badge of office. Consequently I see no reason why Chaplains can't take other weapons; particularly if the weapons are somehow incorporated into the Chatper's fluff. E.G. The chapter might be called 'The Emperor's Talons' and lightning claws are an iconic symbol.

At the end of the day its your model and your army. Do what you want.

LankyOgre
02-12-2007, 14:16
Thanks for the help. I'm running Crimson Fists, so they stick pretty close to the Codex Astartes. I originally saw the LC chaplain in another thread and the more I thought about it the more I wasn't sure. I think I'll go ahead and just skip the LCs and go stay with the crozius arcanus.

Takitron
02-12-2007, 14:24
Thanks for the help. I'm running Crimson Fists, so they stick pretty close to the Codex Astartes. I originally saw the LC chaplain in another thread and the more I thought about it the more I wasn't sure. I think I'll go ahead and just skip the LCs and go stay with the crozius arcanus.

I would only run the lightning claws on a chaplain with a jump pack anyway

Mort
02-12-2007, 15:20
I use a LC armed Terminator Chaplain.

Although i dont like LCs, i thought it would be fitting,because my SMs (Lions of Ultramar) are converted and have lots of lion pelts and heads as decoration, and the chaplain as keeper of the traditions personifies the lion,means has lots of lion fur,claws and a lion skull as mask.(the animal,not the primarch,just if somebody is wondering).

FashaTheDog
02-12-2007, 15:35
I have a Chaplain with a pair of lightning claws that I made from the last batch of chaplain by clipping the left handed crozius off at the elbow and then gluing a similarly modified old terminator lightning claw in it's place along with the complete right hand one on the empty spot. Then added a newer Raptor jump pack. The only complaints I have had was about the wasted 29 points. However, when in combat, I find that those lightning claws tend to make all the difference between leaving a lone survivor at the end of the enemy assault phase and cleaning house to move on to then next tasty morsel. If you just mix him in with ten Assault Marines and a second ten strong Assault Squad with attached Veil of Time/Might of Heroes Librarian, you've got yourself a very hard hitting wave that's very difficult to run from.

Incidently they did make an old Rogue Trader era Chaplain with a bolt pistol and chain sword who had this tiny little skull banner mounted behind his head which could just as easily be called his crozius being on display for all to see. If I get a chance, I will go down stairs to get the model and snap a picture of it to post here, no promises though.

Preacher
02-12-2007, 15:56
I'm just starting up a space marine army and this thread is begining to answer some of the questions I had.
I am taking a Chappie for sure. I am trying to decide if I should keep him in a transport with some termies or give him the jump pack and put him with the assualt marines. But thats another thread all together.
In my army I am going with the crozius because of the fluff. I like the idea of the re-roll but for me the theme and fluff out ways that. I base all my armies off a theme or fluff and go forward from there. I don't game in tournaments so I dont build armies just to win.
I think as far as the "standard" fluff from the codex goes, a chaplin should have his crozius. It is a badge of office for them. And is a symbol to motivate the army. A chaplin would work for a long time to become one and everything that comes with it, the armour, the relics and the crozius. So I dont see such a devoted invidual just dropping something he worked so hard for to get.
Just my two cents.

elusiveintrovert
02-12-2007, 16:34
According to the marine codex, when taking options from the armory, a model can only have 2 weapons. A pair of lightning claws counts as two weapons.

Actually it doesn't state that a model may only have two weapons, only that a model with access to the armoury may select two weapons. That means that you can purchase two weapons from the armoury, even if you already have two base weapons already.

Also on a side note, It says in the space marine armoury that a marine with access to the armoury may select two weapons, it does not state that they would lose any weapons that they already have. Does it say this anywhere while I just missed it, or is it just a natural assumption that everyone seems to have made.

Takitron
02-12-2007, 17:04
Incidently they did make an old Rogue Trader era Chaplain with a bolt pistol and chain sword who had this tiny little skull banner mounted behind his head which could just as easily be called his crozius being on display for all to see. If I get a chance, I will go down stairs to get the model and snap a picture of it to post here, no promises though.

http://www.solegends.com/citcat89/c894106marines.jpg (http://www.solegends.com/citcat89/c894106marines-h.htm)
(click me)

he is on there, left hand side.

Takitron
02-12-2007, 17:09
I'm just starting up a space marine army and this thread is begining to answer some of the questions I had.
I am taking a Chappie for sure. I am trying to decide if I should keep him in a transport with some termies or give him the jump pack and put him with the assualt marines. But thats another thread all together.
In my army I am going with the crozius because of the fluff. I like the idea of the re-roll but for me the theme and fluff out ways that. I base all my armies off a theme or fluff and go forward from there. I don't game in tournaments so I dont build armies just to win.
I think as far as the "standard" fluff from the codex goes, a chaplin should have his crozius. It is a badge of office for them. And is a symbol to motivate the army. A chaplin would work for a long time to become one and everything that comes with it, the armour, the relics and the crozius. So I dont see such a devoted invidual just dropping something he worked so hard for to get.
Just my two cents.

Except you are free to model him with his badge strapped on his back or waist. Do you think the chaplain walks around gripping his crozius all day?

Do what you want, I like my chaplains on bikes.

CassiusDraconis
02-12-2007, 17:18
I say model the Chaplain with his Crozius strapped to his back, maybe as a banner icon, and convert away. Alternatively, Model the LCs so that they are obviously a badge of office. I don't so much like the idea of putting the CA in the hand of a LC because it will get too unwieldy looking. Maybe use a Empire or Witch Hunters priest mini as a senechal bearing the Crozius the same way as Azrael has the watcher carry the Lion Helm. Be creative, and be a lawyer making sure you follow the spirit of the character, and you should be fine.

PS: Find yourself a fist icon and make the Crozius using the Chapter symbol. Some people will think that's so cool that they forget about the LCs. ;)