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shutupSHUTUP!!!
02-12-2007, 01:58
Simple question. Can a HE Noble use a great weapon and BSB and where is the rule stating that it can't (if applicable)?

highelfmage
02-12-2007, 02:05
HE BSB can use great weapons and shields.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
02-12-2007, 02:12
Interesting, thanks.

Hrogoff the Destructor
02-12-2007, 02:32
I wonder if that will be changed in an errata. No other teams can do that (off the top of my head).

Atrahasis
02-12-2007, 02:38
No, it won't.

Xavier
02-12-2007, 02:51
Considering the BSB in GW's army has a shield... I don't think it will be changed and I think it is intentional.

chivalrous
02-12-2007, 03:26
I wonder if that will be changed in an errata. No other teams can do that (off the top of my head).

It might be intentional in making the BSB a more attractive option on foot, to make it more survivable. Originally it had to sacrifice a Magic banner in order to get an armour save better than 5+, wheras most other armies are able to take a BSB with either a save of at least 4+ or a higher toughness. (Skaven and Dark Elves are notable exceptions but at least Skaven can put their BSB at the back of the unit and still get the benefit.)
Up until now, I've only ever seen a BSB in units of Dragon Princes because of the extra save granted by the steed.

Hrogoff the Destructor
02-12-2007, 03:39
I guess that's a good thing though. I've never understood why they could never have shields.

sephiroth87
02-12-2007, 04:16
What about black orc BSBs? Doesn't their armed to da teef rule give them great weapons while holding the Battle standard?

*stirs pot and runs away*

Bolter Bait
02-12-2007, 04:56
What about black orc BSBs? Doesn't their armed to da teef rule give them great weapons while holding the Battle standard?

*stirs pot and runs away*Yes.

As it stands, HE BSBs can wield great weapons because the only restriction on them is that they cannot be the army general. Mmmm... three Str 6, WS 6 ASF attacks AND gives rerolls to Ld? Yes please!

superknijn
02-12-2007, 07:31
Yeah, but it's still an Elf with T3 and not-too-high armour. ;)

Black Orcs BSB's can also have Great Weapons and two Choppa's, due to being Armed to the Teef.

T10
02-12-2007, 10:07
Interesting, thanks.

Only in that it sets no precedent for the other army books, whose army battle standard bearers are still restricted from buying additional mundane equipment and shields. These still have access to taking magical versions of mundane weapons, but not magical shields.

-T10

Gorbad Ironclaw
02-12-2007, 10:31
That should change as we go forward tho, I think BSBs having limited equipment is a thing of the past(About time too, now we only need to make them a 'free' mandatory Hero choice and we are getting somewhere).

EvC
02-12-2007, 12:14
They can use all the same equipment as the inferior unit standard bearers can ;)

Tutore
02-12-2007, 12:54
It should require one, but it doesn't. Too good for my high elven army heh.

Alathir
02-12-2007, 14:18
In my opinion it doesnt, I always thought that whole 'he needs a hand' thing was a bit odd... it much cooler if he just slams the standard in the ground and unsheathes his blade anyway.

To answer your question. Yes, a high elf noble can wield a great weapon/shield and a battle standard.

English 2000
29-01-2008, 02:26
Has there been any kind of update to the High Elf Battle Standard Bearer and the Great Weapon situation - there are lots of mutterings around my gaming group about the length of my beard whenever my HE bsb whips out his great sword and hacks some scum from lesser races into little bits.....

I don't see an official 7th ed errata on the GW website yet.

I am taking full advantage of my foot slogging bsb with S6 attacks and a 2+ armour save until otherwise forced to change.

Dendo Star
29-01-2008, 06:03
The upcoming BSB for Vampire Counts will be the same rules as the High Elf one. We of the Empire are upset due to getting shafted.:mad:

Ward.
29-01-2008, 06:34
Dendo Star: It was for fluff reasons, they simply didn't have enough metal left over in the empire for the battle standard bearer's great weaopn after they churned out all those steam tanks.

T10
29-01-2008, 07:15
Has there been any kind of update to the High Elf Battle Standard Bearer and the Great Weapon situation - there are lots of mutterings around my gaming group about the length of my beard whenever my HE bsb whips out his great sword and hacks some scum from lesser races into little bits.....


There currently is no change to the other armies BSB restrictions.

Again: There is no rule that requires the BSB to have a free hand. It's just the individual armies' restrictions that tend to make sure that he has one hand free...

-T10

lparigi34
29-01-2008, 12:00
They can use all the same equipment as the inferior unit standard bearers can ;)

This has ever been a questioning of my own... How can a normal R&F trooper carry the Unit Standard and still use is full combat abilities (i.e. Great Weapon or Halberds, or even GW+SH and still get the +1save bonus), but a highly trained hero can't?

theunwantedbeing
29-01-2008, 12:03
The unit is assumed to be armed all the same, when infact they most liekly arent, they simply have mostly 1 type of weapon.
The standard bearer can easily be assumed to be using a normal sword, or simply standing slightly back from the fighting and not actually taking full part.

EvC
29-01-2008, 15:19
Well done for demonstrating that with a bit of imagination, pretty much any rule can be justified. Just as the unit standard can be imagined to be standing back, the army standard can be imagined to have planted his standard in the ground :)

Jack of Blades
29-01-2008, 15:24
Indeed, I never understood the rules about restricting BSBs. No shield :wtf:?, no additional weapons :eek:...

T10
29-01-2008, 23:02
Most complaints against the BSB's restrictions stem from the fact that units armed with weapons and equipment which leave no free hands see no consequences of this on the regimental standard. Clearly these fail to take into account the majority rule (p. 54). The standard bearer is simply one of the minority of models differently armed. :)

-T10

Crazy Harborc
29-01-2008, 23:17
I do agree, the Empire is getting the shaft. Our Battle Standard which is in a 7th Edition armybook is still denied a shield.:( Oh well......saaayyyeee....is 8th edition due out this or next year??

English 2000
30-01-2008, 02:12
Not likely this year since the new 40k is due out.

Borthcollective
30-01-2008, 04:04
I wouldn't expect to see a new version of warhammer for 3 years at least.

Gorbad Ironclaw
30-01-2008, 06:10
I do agree, the Empire is getting the shaft. Our Battle Standard which is in a 7th Edition armybook is still denied a shield.:( Oh well......saaayyyeee....is 8th edition due out this or next year??


It got nothing at all to do with the main rulebook tho. It says nothing about if you need a hand to carry the BSB or not, it's all in the idividual army books. So if anything, blame the army book, not the core ruleset.

Braad
30-01-2008, 10:49
My thing about BSB and great weapons: can you imagine a greater weapon than a huge pole and (for example, take my black orcs) a dead dwarf dangling on the other end smashing down some skulls?

Crazy Harborc
30-01-2008, 19:43
My thing about BSB and great weapons: can you imagine a greater weapon than a huge pole and (for example, take my black orcs) a dead dwarf dangling on the other end smashing down some skulls?

Sight unseen, I like your BO's standard. I will check in my Dwarf bits. Saayyeee.....how about a dwarf (or human head) with the spine still attached.:D. It could come in handy to have lunch for da' boyz right there with the army standard.:D

lparigi34
30-01-2008, 19:54
Sight unseen, I like your BO's standard. I will check in my Dwarf bits. Saayyeee.....how about a dwarf (or human head) with the spine still attached.:D. It could come in handy to have lunch for da' boyz right there with the army standard.:D

I believe this is the current model for the BOs Standard, so no special conversion need ;)

505
31-01-2008, 05:49
well
BO is justified having a GW he'd just use the banner (no sense of decensy)
HE are also justified...we are so awesome :D we can toss the banner in the air, draw a 2handed sword, slice away, sheeth the swrd, and catch the banner all in one motion
VC are justified. just loop the banner through the empty chest cavity let the ribs hold it in place and attack with two free hands

Urgat
31-01-2008, 10:38
What about black orc BSBs? Doesn't their armed to da teef rule give them great weapons while holding the Battle standard?

*stirs pot and runs away*

As said before, yes they can, but they still can't use a shield (not included in the armed to da teeth rule, sadly :p)