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Matt121
02-12-2007, 11:41
Forgive me if this has already been asked elsewhere but why have we still gotten no alien hunters? The grey knights miniatures were a breath of fresh air as were the inquisitors & the rules weren't the worst either so why no deathwatch? They gave us witch hunters (which sucks ass bigtime imho) but then they re done the SM codex & now we're on the verge of 2008, GW wtf? Does anyone know if there are (or were) any plans for them as i personally would really like to see them released. Thanks.

leonmallett
02-12-2007, 11:56
The current most prominent rumour is of a combined Inquisition codex, although in which year remains very much up in the air - not on the schedule yet.

Galatan
02-12-2007, 12:05
There is indeed a rumour that GW wants to do a combined codex (great idea IMO), but don't see it coming anytime soon. Maybe 2009 since they aren't planned for 2008, but don't get your hopes up.

leonmallett
02-12-2007, 12:08
With rumours of a 5th edition next year, and Daemons following Orks, with SW, DE and Necrons maybe to follow in no particular order, Inquisition (and possibly IG) could be as late as 2010, even if the codexes arrive more quickly than they have under the current schedule.

Icarus
02-12-2007, 12:13
I don't think GW really knows what to do with the Ordo Xenos anyway, its kind of the odd one out in the Inquisitoral Triumvirate. I mean, they have the Deathwatch as an Order Mlitant, but other than that what do they do?

As far as I can tell from the fluff, the Ordo Xenos seems to do to 2 things:
a) They gather information on alien empires and try to orchestrate ways to destroy them, Inquisitor Kryptman being a prime example
b) They clamp down really hard on any humans who use Xenos tech.

.... aaaand thats it. Not much to go on there for a Codex really. Sure they can write up some more stuff for it, but you can see why the idea for an Alienhunters Codex hasn't been leapt upon. Hence why we will probably get a conjoined codex at some point in the distant future, once more pressing codexes get their kinks worked out.

different13
02-12-2007, 13:23
Exactly.

The only real saving point will be Alien Henchmen (Eldar/human/ork pirates), and perhaps one or two new species introduced model-wise.

Luckywallace
02-12-2007, 14:55
The big problem with Alien Hunters is that their Chamber Militant only operate in single squads (or maybe, just maybe... 2 squads).

While Grey Knights have a limited selection of troops they can form a "proper" army in their own right and Sisters of Battle (as well as their Ecclesiarch allies) actually have a good ammount of variety and more unit options than say, Necrons.

As it stands, DaemonHunters and WitchHunters can stand on their own as armies, while AlienHunters ONLY really work as allies.

Another reason a joint-codex would be awesome.

00mrfish00
02-12-2007, 15:10
leonmallet's right, GW will be doing a combined Inquisition codex. (Although not just yet.)

Baneboss
02-12-2007, 15:17
Inquisition (and possibly IG) could be as late as 2010

Rumours say 5th edition is coming next year after daemons. With 5th most likely new SM and then right after IG.

leonmallett
02-12-2007, 15:23
I was simply speculating, especially with increased rumour-talk of DE, Necrons and SW sometime after Daemons (in no particluar order). I think Inquisition will likely be last, it seems. After Daemons though, assuming a new C: SM, we are looking at possibly 4 Imperial books and just 2 non-Imperial, which would seem odd, so that order is really speculative, but I would expect SM after Daemons if we see 5th edition next year, then DE or Necrons, then SW (the current codex looks to be out of print and it doesn't appear it is going to be reprinted - read into that what you will), then the other of DE and Necrons, then IG followed by Inquistion?

Icarus
02-12-2007, 16:03
Got to agree with leonmallet, we wont see any form of Inquisition codex for a long time. Theres too many other codexes crying out for attention, and Daemonhunters and Withchunters are both very good strong codexes that don't need revising, which means an omni-Inquisition codex is not exactly high on the priorities list. So yeah... 2010 methinks...

spacemonkey
02-12-2007, 17:53
One of the reasons we haven't seen a Xeno Hunter codex is they haven't finished all the xeno codexes yet. It only makes sense to finish them first, so wargear meant to counter the various alien armies can be properly developed. Same for the Daemon Hunters, until the upcoming Daemon Codex is released anti-daemon wargear can't be properly revised. Of course with the release of the Daemon Codex I'm guessing they're be a big push for a DH codex or a least a good FAQ as some wargear/special rules will likely be invalidated. Also if the Inquistion codex(es) intends to keep the Inducted Guard it's likely that the Imperial Guard codex would be done first as well to make sure unit selections match up. Also as LuckyWallace pointed out the Deathwatch will need some serious expansion to make them a proper order militant. All this points to any or an Inquisition codex being some distance off.

Doctor Thunder
02-12-2007, 18:25
I think the problem is that while Greay Knights and Sisters of Battle are vastly different then regular marines, deathwatch just aren't very different, so it kind of feels bland to do a whole army of them, especially when it would seem to end up being basically a space marine army with the Xenos-hunters trait.

Unless GW can figure out a way to distinguish them sufficiently and in an interesting way from regular marines, I can't see them putting forth the effort and I don't see the customers getting excited enough about it to make a return on the investment.

Eulenspiegel
02-12-2007, 21:50
While Grey Knights have a limited selection of troops they can form a "proper" army in their own right and Sisters of Battle (as well as their Ecclesiarch allies) actually have a good ammount of variety and more unit options than say, Necrons.

As it stands, DaemonHunters and WitchHunters can stand on their own as armies, while AlienHunters ONLY really work as allies.
Since the original questin has been answered, IŽll chime in the off-topic:

This is true and always struck me as somewhat illogical.
Surely the Ordo Xenos should have the largest Order Militant? With aliens often coming as invasion-scouts or other larger-scale operations?

Ordo Malleus should be second, but the Ordo Hereticus should almost always have to rely on small-unit operations (ok there is the point that all 40K games are small-unit operations aka skirmishes) to root out clandestine heretic cults, and then have to press the local PDF or Imperial Guard regiments into aiding them.

Arathan
02-12-2007, 22:31
@Eulenspiegel
Well, that is what the Imperial Guard/Navy and Space Marines are there for mainly. A Chamber Militant for the Ordo Xenos would basically only need to assist those armies (which the Death Watch does) as they can rely on other institutions to a greater degree than the more specialised Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus.
And to be fair, only Ordo Malleus has a Chamber Militant that exists exclusively for that purpose. The Adepta Sororitas are also the fighting arm of the Ecclesiarchy which helps explain their organisation.

Gimp
02-12-2007, 23:00
try reading the 2 novels Nightbringer and Warriors of Ultrimar

they give an insight to how Ordo Xenos Inquisitors and Death Watch work

Super Ninja
04-01-2008, 01:34
I myself have allways seen the Deathwatch and GK as two sides of the SM personafied. To me the Deathwatch are the elete, commando starship trooper action movie hero side of the SM. They opperate in a single, specialized squad and fight against hordes of aliens and explore uncharted alien worlds by themselves. The GK represent the anacronistic, crusading angel knight daemon-slayer side of the SM.

sorry if that got alitle of-topic but thats why i think they dont have an alienhunters codex: because their chamber millitant is to elete and specialized to make a propper army. if they tried to it would be one squad of Deathwatch and the rest of the troop choices would be stormtroopers and alien mercenaries (which doesnt fit their style at all).

Techron 2.0
04-01-2008, 03:17
yeah there suppose to make a big inquisition codex with sisters of battle deamonhunters and deathwacth well alien hunters. i guess its suppose to be late 08'

eek107
04-01-2008, 03:35
try reading the 2 novels Nightbringer and Warriors of Ultrimar

they give an insight to how Ordo Xenos Inquisitors and Death Watch work

IA4 was quite enlightening as well.

Master Jeridian
04-01-2008, 04:25
I'll second the notion that Deathwatch would be just another Space Marine army, and there's only so many different ways of churning out the same type of army.

And that they function as bodyguards to Xenos Inquisitors doing research on aliens. The Deathwatch protect them on various missions to capture alien specimens, delve into alien worlds/ships, etc.
They don't actually wage wars against aliens alone, they lead conventional IG and SM forces for that.

The Sisters have a justified army because of the Ecclesiarchy as said. The Grey Knights because (in old fluff at least) contact with the daemonic or even knowledge of it would corrupt and require the destruction of conventional armies.

WallyTWest
04-01-2008, 04:45
I would love the ability to add alien henchmen.

gt0079
04-01-2008, 04:55
IA4 was quite enlightening as well.


I feel sorry about Inquisitor Lok.......

Brother Loki
04-01-2008, 09:50
For those wanting to get a fix of ordo xenos goodness, check out the Damocles Gulf Crusade and 2nd Tyrannic War campaign packs from http://www.tempusfugitives.co.uk/. They have rather spangly homegrown rules for Ordo Xenos inquisitors and several different types of Deathwatch team. I'm in the process of building some teams for the DGC campaign myself at the moment.

chaos0xomega
04-01-2008, 19:47
The problem with the Ordo Xenos(that I think many of you have hinted at), is that they are a largely redundant force(in terms of combat). The rest of the Imperium combats xenos every damned day, the Ordo Xenos(unlike the Malleus/Hereticus) isn't needed in every one of these engagements, nor is it called in for these engagements, whereas if its a roguep= psyker/heresy/daemonic incursion, you can bet your ass that the Hereticus/Malleus WILL be there).

To me it seems that the Ordo Xenos is really just an extension of the Adeptus Mechanicus intended to research xenos species in the field.

Baltar
04-01-2008, 20:02
To me it seems that the Ordo Xenos is really just an extension of the Adeptus Mechanicus intended to research xenos species in the field.

That is a mistake. The Ordo Xenos do it best.

They are the ones who do crazy stuff like board Tyranid ships to steal Genestealers, or go about dropping virus bombs on worlds with Cavemen Xenos.

They provide necessary information about the aliens, and without them the Imperium would have been screwed already.

To quote Starship Troopers:

"To beat the Bug, you must UNDERSTAND the bug." (substitute Xenos for bug where appropriate)

Brother Loki
04-01-2008, 20:07
@chaos0xomega:
To some extent that's right, but I think there's plenty of scope for characterful gaming with them. The deathwatch are a cool concept - space marine commandos, and sufficiently different from the Grey Knights (space marine paladins) to be worth exploring more. I guess that pure OX forces lend themselves better to smaller point games - kill team and combat patrol, and special scenarios. That said, look at the 'Why would XXX-hunters fight YYY?' section in the existing inquisition codexes and you could easily come up with a huge range of narratives, and funky adversaries rules as well.

I think particularly if a future marine codex scales back on the use of traits and veteran skills in the same way as the chaos codex has, there will be a new niche for an elite infiltrating marine force - as a mirror to the elite deep strike force of the grey knights, which deathwatch could fill admirably.

The scope for including alien mercenaries for radicals has been mentioned, and I think that's a great idea, and makes good business sense as well, for the simple reason it encourages people to buy models from different ranges. Suddenly its not just ork players you can sell Boyz to... Once you've got a box of kroot mercs for your imperial army, its not a big step to expand that to a combat patrol, and then a second army and so on.

I love the idea of an ordo xenos force - not least because it's easily adaptable for a Rogue Trader army, which is what 40k is all about for me - when I started playing it was the title of the game for goodness sake!.

Baltar
04-01-2008, 20:08
I would finally build a marine army if they were to make a Deathwatch playable army.

rodmillard
04-01-2008, 20:26
Just a thought, but...

In the fluff - especially the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books - there are loads of references to OX inquisitors hunting down imperial citizens for using xenos tech. If OX are to have adversary rules akin to the other ordos, this could allow adversary HQs to take wargear from alien codexes, and alien merc units as troops (or more likely elites). Combine with Guard with Codex:Tyranids and the genestealer cult could live again...

Adra
04-01-2008, 20:27
They do have a nice mad science/explorer =I= thing going on which is cool but i agree that the Deathwatch are a bit dull. Get them some funky stuff like...um...hover boards :P

MadDogMike
04-01-2008, 22:19
Funny part is it seems like most of the Inquisitors in 40K fiction I can think of are from the Ordo Xenos. Certainly most of the "famous" ones like Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Amberly Vail from the Caine books, Kryptman, and such are Xenos. I can think of maybe 2-3 Ordo Malleus Inquisitors and only one Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor that weren't from their respective codexes. Maybe people are uncomfortable with the idea of an Inquisitor whose primary focus is humanity?

One thing that might actually help with getting a Deathwatch focus is that apparently it's going to be the subject of one of the RPGs that Black Industries is putting out. Apparently it's the default "Space Marines" RPG since Deathwatch gives a reason why members of different chapters could be thrown together and gives them tasks that go outside the typical battlefield-only existence of Marines, but depending on the fluff it might flesh out the Deathwatch sufficiently to make them an interesting army to match the SoB and Grey Knights. Granted it'll be a while before it's released, but hell, it'll be a while before a Codex: Inquisition makes it out anyway.

Spacker
04-01-2008, 22:39
Did I miss something? Did GW go back on their statement saying that they would not do a combined codex? Or is it just the old debunked rumour rearing it's head again?

GW also stated that one of the reasons that they haven't done an Ordo Xenos codex is because they didn't want to just rehash the DH & WH codexes and have Stormtroopers + Inquisitors + Deathwatch - they wanted something a bit more creative. There are also plenty of other codexes that need updating first, and the Deathwatch Chapter Approved rules were seen to suffice for the present time and were updated a reprinted in WD.

Apart from the Deathwatch, Imperial Armour Volume 4 includes rules for the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lok and his Magos Biologis, and the Elysian D-99 list representing a veteran guard drop force used by the Ordo Xenos as part of their elite ground troops.

Brother Loki
04-01-2008, 22:48
I didn't know they'd made such a statement. Where was this?

Spacker
04-01-2008, 22:52
I can't remember where I read it, but it was some time ago. If I ever find the posts that included it I'll post links to them. I'm pretty sure it wasn't an "official" statement, but it was something that was stated in response to questions posed at a GD, which is as close to a statement that you'd get out of GW anyway.

Khornies & milk
04-01-2008, 23:36
Did I miss something? Did GW go back on their statement saying that they would not do a combined codex? Or is it just the old debunked rumour rearing it's head again?

GW also stated that one of the reasons that they haven't done an Ordo Xenos codex is because they didn't want to just rehash the DH & WH codexes and have Stormtroopers + Inquisitors + Deathwatch - they wanted something a bit more creative. There are also plenty of other codexes that need updating first, and the Deathwatch Chapter Approved rules were seen to suffice for the present time and were updated a reprinted in WD.

Apart from the Deathwatch, Imperial Armour Volume 4 includes rules for the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Lok and his Magos Biologis, and the Elysian D-99 list representing a veteran guard drop force used by the Ordo Xenos as part of their elite ground troops.

I think this IS the state of affairs at the moment, and we just have to be patient and play with what we have. It hasn't stopped me using the CA Deathwatch Kill-Team Rules and Specs, and including some of the Damocles Crusade stuff, specifically the DW Terminator Squads, and make a 2K Force that I can use in games among friends.
Mind you, it gets a bit expensive.:D

HsojVvad
08-01-2008, 23:22
I think some of us are mistaken about alien henchmen. That is one of the first things I thought would be cool but will not happen. Think about it, the Xenos Ordeos go after Imperial citizens who use alien technolgy. If they have Alien Henchmen they would become, what is the work, ahh traitors. (ack forget the name now.)

Read the fluff in the DH codex, an Inquisitor, Qxious or something like that used chaos powers and weapons against chaos, thinking it's for the good of the Imperium and the Emperor but was hunted down and killed because of it.

Maybe you can use Alien Hunchmen but would be declared traitouress and hunted down to be cleansed by other Exeno, Demeon, Witch Hunters.

Resurrected
08-01-2008, 23:53
Well yea, but in the other Inquistion codexi there are rules to allow for radical Inquisitors. Therefore radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitors could be seen to use alien mercs and xeno tech.

CommisarMolotov
08-01-2008, 23:54
I think some of us are mistaken about alien henchmen. That is one of the first things I thought would be cool but will not happen. Think about it, the Xenos Ordeos go after Imperial citizens who use alien technolgy. If they have Alien Henchmen they would become, what is the work, ahh traitors. (ack forget the name now.)

Read the fluff in the DH codex, an Inquisitor, Qxious or something like that used chaos powers and weapons against chaos, thinking it's for the good of the Imperium and the Emperor but was hunted down and killed because of it.

Maybe you can use Alien Hunchmen but would be declared traitouress and hunted down to be cleansed by other Exeno, Demeon, Witch Hunters.

Keep in mind that the Daemonhunters codex allows Inquisitors to field bound daemons, eh?

DioŽRa
09-01-2008, 00:10
doesnt the word radical not suggest extremist, going over the top, using all means necessary etc etc :rolleyes:

talking about being radical....the admech have also some radical quirks....and using alien tech......didnt we turn the blackstone fortresses into giant space stations! instead of destroying the threat by the puritan way.....

i think we can expect abhumans aswell with ordo xenos.....abhumans are not humans neither xenos.....but still some abhumans can be more xenos then humans in forms...

Ravening Wh0re
09-01-2008, 00:49
My take on the Deathwatch is that it is a fast elite force.
In this army, each Deathwatch Space Marine can be upgraded to a Veteran, and thus can take any weapon loadout. Imagine a highly customiseable and unique looking army, able to take on any form of xenos. In combat, they can load up on pistols, power weapons, fists, and claws. In shooting, the existing variations of bolters (and heavy bolter) with differing ammunition (which can easily be expanded upon).
Each one of these marines is individual, and this is further enforced visually because they still retain their chapter markings on their shoulder pads.

I can't see them having any vehicles in their force, mainly because they don't seem to fight any kind of conventional warfare (maybe speeders, at a push). It's more commando-type tactics that are employed.
I think options for jump-packs would suit them well, alongside with their "always deepstrike" ability.
I'm unsure whether Terminators belong in this army. I can see them playing a role in boarding actions, but then again they are so slow and well armoured.
Certainly no Dreadnoughts, since there is no standing DW army to upkeep it, and seems unlikely any Chapters are willing to lend their precious Dreads.

Dunno what to do with the Inquisitors themselves.

Anyway, I think this force fits in nicely alongside the other 2 Ordos, and doesn't really tread on the others toes.

HsojVvad
09-01-2008, 02:10
Been along while, forgot about radical. Where there should be a rule when using radicals. If you are going to use radicals, say mabey your opponent can\should use loyalist Inquistors that can only attack said radical Inquisitor.

Depending on the point cost of the Radical force the opponent gets 20. 30% more points to field the Inquisitor to go against the Radical force. The radical force then can use alien tech and\or alien hunchme. I always belived this but I guess it would be too hard to impleiment at a tourney though.

OK I admit I was wrong, and unless they change the rules AH can use alien tech and alien hunchmen.

Thanks the correction.