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View Full Version : Apocalypse… will it live on ?



untimention
02-12-2007, 16:37
I thought about this long and hard... will Apocalypse turn into a some what own gaming system.

Alot of us are enjoying the freedom and the additional models we can use and the rules. However after 2008 will this game live on... as per the rest they died ie cities of death etc and they do for Warhammer as well.

Me personally i think in some cases warhammer 40k has changed forever now and once a newbie has learnt the ropes Apocalypse is the step up.

Doctor Thunder
02-12-2007, 16:42
I think it will be like Bloodbowl and Battlefleet Gothic, with a good number of die-hard clubs and groups, but largely unplayed by the general community.
That said, I'd be perfectly happy if it became the norm.

untimention
02-12-2007, 16:44
i agree it just opens things up so much, it allows people to collect an army that has models from across the range

it allows cool rules and larger collections... it also means all this money people are spending all of a sudden just collects dust on shelves.

Agrip. Varenus Denter
02-12-2007, 16:45
I think it definitely will - I don't consider it a "one-shot" on route to Specialist Games... it's a natural extension of the core rulebook.

Killgore
02-12-2007, 16:51
as long as people enjoy large battles with assets then apocalypse shall live on

plus many people when they reach a certain point limit with their main army they consider purchasing a superheavy, and superheavys mean apocalypse time!

untimention
02-12-2007, 16:54
i believe thats the case, i think it will die down a little because stores wont play the battles

but clubs etc i think it shall live on .... and so it should because its something for people with larger collections

wonder when the warhammer version will come out

Polonius
02-12-2007, 16:55
I think apocolypse will live on. People like big games, and the rules are very good for large games.

Reaver83
02-12-2007, 17:00
I think it'll continue but considering you need a lot of time and a little planning i think it'll be an infrequent occurance

==Me==
02-12-2007, 17:03
Apocalypse will live on as long as people want big games. We still play CoD games too, all the terrain and different missions makes for a fun gaming experience.

CassiusDraconis
02-12-2007, 17:07
I think it will live on wherever there are beardy oldsters like me that fondly remember some aspects of 2nd Edition but still believe that at its heart the current edition is more playable.

Bookwrak
02-12-2007, 17:14
People have been playing mega battles for just about as long as the system has been around. Since Apocalypse makes the whole execution of mega battles simpler by providing a common rule set, it's going to be around for as long as people keep on craving 10,000 points of models on the table at one time.

Darnok
02-12-2007, 17:51
As already mentioned, most people like the idea of massive battles. It will be done as long as the game exists. The only thing Apoc changes is, that now you have a common starting point. And a lot more shiny toys to play with, aka Superheavies and Stratagems.

Galatan
02-12-2007, 17:58
Apoc was aimed for all the veteran gamers in clubs etc, GW never intended it be as commonly played as the normal systems or CoD. I think it will live on for as long as there are gaming clubs/players who want to host mega battles. Not to mention this finally gives GW the rulesset to host those big battles they do in the holidays.

Jomee
02-12-2007, 18:18
I don't think so. I'm not a gamer, but the idea of playing 40k still appeals to me. Not so Apocalypse. From what I gather, players set up a butt-load of minis on a table with virtually no space between them, then start rolling dice and removing models, with the occasional "Hey, I have 11 rhinos and a Sentinel - that's a Rhino-wing, it means all my Rhinos can fly and do 6x damage to infantry for 1 turn."

starlight
02-12-2007, 18:27
I'm thinking that rules like CoD and Apocalypse will slowly be integrated into the main ruleset over time... With the coming of 5th Ed....who knows....?

Jomee - not so much.

twj
02-12-2007, 18:48
I hope so, as a WFB veteran, it'll take time to build up my 40k army to that size to play regulary (without borrowing, etc...)

Ordo Ouroboros
02-12-2007, 18:49
The freeform rules of Apoc make for more interesting battles for me. Not being able to predict an attack pattern as well as I could anymore is very challenging and apeealing. And being free to set up an army as I see fit to my strategy is also appelaing. No more of this standard set up and worrign about how my maths are going to fit into it points wise

Chaplain Ark
02-12-2007, 19:00
it think sooner or later it will become like Cities of Death where there are no new stuff about it, but people will still play it.

Kuato
02-12-2007, 19:00
While I think Apocalypse will "live on" in that many games will still be played, I think the lasting impact Apocalypse will have will be on 5th edition and the game that develops from there. Many aspects of Apocalypse games (assets, objectives, freeform setup, better missions) are easily transplanted into normal-scale 40k and make for a much more interesting and tactically unpredictable game.


I don't think so. I'm not a gamer, but the idea of playing 40k still appeals to me. Not so Apocalypse. From what I gather, players set up a butt-load of minis on a table with virtually no space between them, then start rolling dice and removing models, with the occasional "Hey, I have 11 rhinos and a Sentinel - that's a Rhino-wing, it means all my Rhinos can fly and do 6x damage to infantry for 1 turn."

Play it. Do it...just do it. I guarantee you'll have more fun than you expect (assuming you're not dedicated to harping on small details to make sure you don't like it). The assumptions you're making about the game are waaaaaaay off.

El Presedente
02-12-2007, 19:17
I can't see GW letting it drop, the lack of restrictions means that players keep on buying even after they've maxed out all of their force organization chart, as well as being able to make you're own units that otherwise wouln't be worth buying stuff more. It makes them alot of money.

shaso_iceborn
02-12-2007, 19:18
being that apocalypse helped the company from going under (IMO) they would be stupid not to at the very least keep a compilation of datasheets going. Even if they only have the "gamer created" stamp of approval. Now all they need is a link on their website for apoc datasheet submissions and a annual "update" like they used to do with chapter approved and whammo instant cash flow from us die hards who love larger battles.

Khornies & milk
02-12-2007, 20:08
It will stay popular for any number of reasons-
1/ My Gaming Buddies love playing it, which means it won't die off, and will be payed along with CoD and standard 40K.
2/ I don't think GW will let it die off, and will add additional material like Datasheets, etc, on a regular basis, as they want us to keep buying more and more models
3/ (Kind of ties in to 2/). If they keep making Superb Super-Heavy models like the BB, then they will sell them by the shipload, especially if they spread them over several Races.

Dio´Ra
02-12-2007, 20:12
its atm the newest thing....just like COD was.....next year we will get dropzone (or which name GW comes up with)....

basicly we will keep on moving to the next new shiney thing GW comes up with.....only die hards stick with the older stuff....

a better question is will future rules editions support these expansions? if not will GW do another rehash of these expansions....a live example would be COD as its the follower of Cityfight.....

i see appocalypse as a one fly wonder....it will never be as popular as now....the cold hard fact is: because its new and shiney....

Spleendokta
02-12-2007, 20:42
I was a hater of this Apoc book at first and thought they really should have come out with an advanced rule book instead. After playing a few games of Apoc, i hope to god it turns into the meta game. Its a TON of fun which I think is missing in this game. I do hope it lives on along with the great army box sets that have sprung up to fill out lists.

What I hope they do is keep adding in Apoc stuff in White Dwarf. Hell, I havnt bought a WD in ages until this got released because it offered me nothing other than a catalogue... perhaps this will change.

I hope they dont forget about Cities of Death either. A very cool supplament. Would be nice to see some new things in WD here too.

Cry of the Wind
02-12-2007, 20:52
Like all mega battles before Apoc I don't see the game style of tossing all your minis on the table for a laugh disapearing. GW might not support it as much in the future as that seems to be their policy on anything that isn't a mainstream codex or rulebook, but the big battles will stay just as they existed before.

It would be nice to see CoD in the 5th Ed book as really I don't think those kind of supplements need to be seperate from the main rules. Heck I'd even like to see Apoc written into the main rulebook in the future and just leave the current book as a test for the 'real' rules that'll be in the core rulebook. I don't like having rule supplements to play other games as I see it as a turn off for people who are worried they will get sandbagged by some rule they missed in the supplment that they may or may not own. I don't see many CoD games becasue of that as people are not always comfortable playing with new rules that they aren't used to and that change the core rules in anyway. Putting all those books into the main rules would eliminate that.

Son of Makuta
02-12-2007, 21:13
It allows people to build the army THEY want. I'd be very surprised if that ever drops away, never mind the cheap Baneblade with the ten inch blast.

Warboss Grimmtoof
03-12-2007, 00:50
It is really designed to be like bloodbowl and other small games. Most players have around 2000pts and dont go over for reasons like INSERT REASON HERE>>>
But players like me, with easily 8000pts of orks, have a reason to buy a baneblade (which I did) and spend the extra $200 or so to use it all. I can't really see an apocalypse v.2.

dagorin
03-12-2007, 02:09
[QUOTE=Kuato;2146155]While I think Apocalypse will "live on" in that many games will still be played, I think the lasting impact Apocalypse will have will be on 5th edition and the game that develops from there. Many aspects of Apocalypse games (assets, objectives, freeform setup, better missions) are easily transplanted into normal-scale 40k and make for a much more interesting and tactically unpredictable game.


I agree completely. The wider selection of options makes for greater variety and challenge. Plus there is nothing like dropping 4000pts of speedy death completely surrounding your opponents' forces int turn 3 and watching their jaws drop. :)

The Orange
03-12-2007, 03:17
Popularity should drop. But I'd expect that on the sheer basis that Apoc. isn't a game that you play everyday. It's supposed to be a pre-planned day long event. Which IMO means that palyers will only play it on special ocassions (whenever everyone has teh free time).

However, due to it's introduction of super-heavies, flyers, and uber MC's I don't think it will vanish anytime soon. Unlike CoD, Apoc. introduces a whole new slew of units (well technically they stole most of them from FW). People like and want to use these units, thus Apoc. IMO won't die anytime soon, if at all. Those models are a big investment for people, so I doubt they'd drop the game as easily as CoD, which from what I've herd is still quite popular in some circles.

The fact that Apoc. opens up restrictions also in a way makes it easier to play. In most cases you don't actually have to learn anything new. Most people could probably play the game without the book knowing that FOC were simply done away with. Thus it would be easier to indoctrinate more players into it, as they can simply come in as their armies grow larger.

baldbeachbum
03-12-2007, 04:01
What happened to City's of Death?

starlight
03-12-2007, 05:36
Nothing. It's still there and quite popular.:)

untimention
03-12-2007, 11:14
fantatic news so far

people are thinking along the same lines which cant be a bad things because if its warseers general thought then it must be similar across the board

The introduction of super heavies and flyers will see impact for me 2008 when i have more money and im sure i will love them to pieces... i have lots apoc models already inc baneblade, chapter masters, terminus.

Due to time etc i havent played a game of apoc but i hope next year or over xmas i will.

and in 10 years time i would still like to be playing them.

Easy E
03-12-2007, 12:36
As long as I draw breath, the ethos that Apoc represents will live on.

Chris_Tzeentch
03-12-2007, 12:47
I think we will use it for bigger games every now and again, but for a typical game, it has too much freedom, and some of the strategy card things can be very unbalancing (ie Flank Attack). Still, its great fun for big games.

aad
03-12-2007, 14:10
it will live on..

and why?? because even during the 40k games we already know.
their where always megabattles with 40k rules, that people played before apocalypse was in the making.

megabattles will keep coming, maybe not that frequent as it is now but it will live on.

and when gws makes new models like titans,battlegroups,tanks,monsters,flyers whatever, then everytime that happens people will use their new purchases to fight on the apocalypse battlefield.
so its selfsustaining.:)

Ironhand
03-12-2007, 14:43
Apocalypse is so much fun it will definitely continue, and perhaps even to some degree supplant the standard 40K game, except among the tournament addicts.

BrianC
03-12-2007, 16:16
I can't see GW letting it drop, the lack of restrictions means that players keep on buying even after they've maxed out all of their force organization chart, as well as being able to make you're own units that otherwise wouln't be worth buying stuff more. It makes them alot of money.I think this is the correct answer, its turned FW from somewhere that made redundancies earlier in the year into somewhere with a massive backlog.

I can see just about any future expansion at least being partly aimed at being plug and play with Apoc, simply because apoc equals bigger armies and bigger armies equals more cash spent.

srg.cutter
03-12-2007, 16:52
i think it will live on but as a much more niche system then its being used at the moment. Right now its the flavor of the month but once the excitement fades it will just become a refrence book for big games.. just like no one plays "cityfights" anymore but they still keep the book handy for urban rules.

if it does live on im sure that Gw will have to attach more rules because at the moment it has the same problems as the early editions of 40k i.e. the flank attack strategm leads to seriously unbalanced games

galahad67
03-12-2007, 16:53
APOC is probably here to stay for a number of reasons:

1. Financial - Apoc encourages large collections which are good for GW's bottom line
2. Retention of players - once you have 2250 pts of an army do you really need anymore? once you have beaten the local feild where do you and your cheese force go - noational tournies? APOC gives you a place to continue to play.
3. Growth of the Game Universe - APOC gives GW (and FW) a place to use the large and game-breaking monstrosities that their designers dream up. And an audience to sell them to.
4. Fun - APOC is just fun. 40K is not as much fun. I love eliminating 30 necron warriors in a turn (yes I know that 70% will stand back up but it's fun knocking them down!). Apoc is a place to use the big guns. and everyone can have a big gun - if you can't afford a FW model you can easily make your own. afterall the Necrons are really the sesame street character who sells the BIG LETTER "C" - for about $2 you can build a necron pylon.

Xyxox
03-12-2007, 18:25
Everything that GW does, and I do mean EVERYTHING, is to sell more models.

Expanding the game to huge scenarios involving thoousands upon thousands of points equates to more models being sold.

Ergo, Apocalypse will not only stay, expect an update o0f CoD to make ti even more Apocalypse friendly that it was the day Apocalypse was released. Expect Drop Zone to concentrate heavily on using the rules in Apocalypse. Expect the next edition of Imperial Armour (which should be a continuation of the Im erpial Armour Volume Five work) to concentrate heavily on Apocalypse scale battle scenarios.

Apocalypse has already been a windfall of revenue for GW. They won't let it die. Their stock price depends upon continuing to expand it and to move resin based models into the plastics for mass production and sales in an Apocalypse environment. I'd almost expect Drop Zone to become Apocalypse II: Drop Zone with special Drop Zone deals on plastic Valkiries (another $95 kit), Drop Pods (Ten Drop Pods in one box, enough to equip your Space Marine Battle Company) and other stuff.

Greyghost
03-12-2007, 19:16
There may be a chance that "Apocalypse" as a name may go away, but mega battles have been around and will always stay.

As you can see from this post, there are some who have been around for over 20 years and some that has been around for over 2 months.

I can't speak for the newer players but being with GW as a hobby for over 20 years it is quite easy for a lot of us to come up with 10K to 20K armies. Of course, the models were much cheaper (more models for the price) back then too.

So, for a lot of us who have been waiting for 20 years, bring on the plastic Valkyries, Thunderbolts, Lightening, Vultures, Reaver Titans, Warlords, etc., etc., it's about time!!

GW has always been for a pretty specialized crowd and the way most people favor electronic video gaming (well I like it too) now, the fun of designing, painting and gaming on a "physical" gaming battlefield will lose some luster to some but will live on in the hearts of people who are having fun with the hobby.

TwilightOdyssey
03-12-2007, 19:34
Apocalypse, in my opinion, is the best 'board game' ever invented.

It's a shame that it's only available to such a small segment of gamers, as I think that it could have an appeal that far outweighs 'standard' 40K.

That being said, it is a lot of work pulling off an Apoc game, and gravity is a powerful force -- keeping the intertia going will require a LOT of creativity on the part of those who play it to keep it fresh. Depending on GW to continue to release datasheets, even though it says right in the book that Apocalypse was meant to free gamers from needing that level of guidance, may very well kill the game for those that have to have a GW stamp on all of their games.

For those more independently minded, it should flourish, provided they don't get lazy.

I love Cities Of Death, but every time I've played a game of 40K at a GW store, I've asked if my opponent wants to play CoD, and the answer has always been 'no'.

Why?

Inertia. It's easier to play with the rules you know, and gravity is a powerful force, as I've said -- bodies at rest (or gamer's mental outlook in this case) tend to stay at rest.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to play more than 3-4 Apoc games per year, but I look forward to the opportunity it affords -- to get people that normally would never touch the game to come over to my house and play co-general for a day.

So, do I think Apocalypse will live on? As stated so well by some other posters -- yes, even if the name changes, the spirit of what it represents will live on for those who are inventive enough. :)

Metal Fingered Villain
03-12-2007, 19:39
I believe apocalypse will continue to thrive, the variety of games and sheer size of the games will always appeal to gaming clubs. You ever play an apocalypse sized game with normal rules? Oh man is it a drag. I love the new rules and know many people I game with here in Portland will continue to play games of apocalypse.

AngryAngel
03-12-2007, 19:39
I think it will last. However games workshop can make sure it does. By releasing more rules for it. With assets and the like. As well as releasing more plastic models to bring tons of cash in to spur peoples want and need to play it. i.e. they have so many marine players our there, a released thunderhawk gunship would earn even more then the baneblade most likely. Hell I know I'd buy two of um or more.

So..with everyone having apoc usable vehicles, that will ensure its survival. If everyone has one..everyone will want to use them. Kinda like nuclear weapons..except the reverse..in apoc we want mutually assured destruction.

unheilig
03-12-2007, 19:39
I'ev really been enjoying Apocalypse... so much so that our group may not return to "normal" 40k.

rintinglen
03-12-2007, 20:16
Apocalypse is here to stay in my book.
While it does take a bit time to set one up and play it, a game of Apocalypse is fun. In fact, quite literally a blast (10 inch templates and more). Since it is financially remunerative for the lads at GW and fun for the players who have the models to participate, I see it as a win-win that greatly enhances it's longevity. I don't see it being played constantly--it is a little too time consuming once the point level starts getting up there--and a lot of the newbie players will not have the models to justify it. But for the weekend where you, the long time player, have the time, it is a blast to haul out the whole thing and let her rip. I think it will be around for mighty long time.

DEADMARSH
03-12-2007, 22:09
Obviously I can't speak to GW continuing support or not for Apocalypse in the future, but I can say, it will most likely have a home in my club for quite a while.

The problem we have is the club doesn't communicate. I have a standing game every Sunday with one of the club members. There are times we're the only ones playing, there are times when there are two or three other games going on.

This past Sunday, I showed up for my 2,000 point Guard vs. Chaos Sunday game with my buddy Kevin and here's Dave who's brought 1850 worth of Sisters but hasn't had anyone reply back to him about a game. Then in comes Bill with about 1500 points of Marines and Mitch who has 1,000 points of Necrons. None of them have talked to each other or anything, they just brought their stuff and hoped they could get a game.

That's five people- most of the time, that'd mean somebody got left out. Not yesterday, though. We stood there looking at each other, and I said, "Hey, why don't we do an Apocalypse game?"

Took a little while for folks to get their lists together, but in the end we played a 3,000 point game that all five of us got to participate in and had good fun doing it.

I know the book says it's all about the planning and the story and all that, and yes, it does make things go much more smoothly, but it's certainly not required for five dudes with very different sized armies to have a good time on a Sunday afternoon.

shaso_iceborn
03-12-2007, 22:31
Justplayed saturday and well I decided to take the vortex grenade for fun (something different) it proceeded to destroy most of my forces and chase armies around the table before it finally disipated. so much fun was had by all (we take to assests per a player when over 10,000 pt a side) that I am sure it will stay around for a long time evenm if GW doesn't support it I am sure gamers will. the bell of lost saouls has done awesome at bringing some new data sheets in wow