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dark-hamish
03-12-2007, 16:43
I am a dedicated Dark Angel player who will soon realise a long time dream, three full battle companies. First company through third. Now while my question doesn't apply to the Ravenwing, it is important to the other 2. How many dreadnaughts do you think would a company have? Dark Angel dreds are part of the company directly, not attached for the mission and all venerables are Deathwing only. I am thinking no more than 2-3 per line company, and 5 vens in DW. That would put like 20 or so dreds all together across the chapter... Does that seem like too many? Or not quite enough?

How would you out fit them? I am planning at least one each of the mortis patterns, but not sure where to go with the rest.

Also I am looking for all the biblical scholars to help me with the names of the archangels to name my dreds after. All I can remember is Gabrielle and Micheal.

Thanks for the opinions.

k'ron
03-12-2007, 17:36
For the names of the angels wikipedia is your friend. Just done a quick search and found Michael, Gabriel, Raphael,Uriel , Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel.

For the dreads I would have thought that a chapter who have been around as long as the dark angels would have quite a few so I would have thought their might be about 7-8 in the deathwing and between 2-4 in the other compaines with more in the main battle companies than the reserves.

Killgore
03-12-2007, 17:40
i'd say 2-3 for each company would be a good amount

Griffty
03-12-2007, 19:15
ive been thinking over the same question for my company - ive decided on an avg of 3 per line company, with room for manuver if i think up good enough background for any others

PotatoLegs
03-12-2007, 20:33
I reckon all dreads should be part of the deathwing and be painted a pretty bone white.

Would it be innapropriate to ask for photos of these three companies of yours? Sounds like an epic project

Grazzy
03-12-2007, 21:21
How about 4 venerables and 2 normal for the DW and 2 for the battle companies.

silence
03-12-2007, 21:24
I'd say no more than 4 per company, including Deathwing.

Rikens
03-12-2007, 21:34
Mortis Pattern Dreadnoughts are awesome. GW should have officialized them.

Mind you, I also wish they had weapons mounted on armed as replacements for Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, but them's the breaks.

Xyxox
03-12-2007, 21:37
I'd say 1 to 4 per Battle company. Reserve Companies may or may not have one (the sixth has one in Imperial Armour Volume Five, IIRC).

I'd also beg to differ about only the Deathwing having Venerable Dreadnoughts. As proof that other companies besides the Deathwing have Venrable Dreadnoughts, I cite this modeling article (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/darkangels/painting/dreadnought/default.htm) on GW's US site. They do a Venerable Dreadnought for the Ravenwing in it.

I would say all Deathwing Dreads are Venerable, but not all Venerables are Deathwing.


Mortis Pattern Dreadnoughts are awesome. GW should have officialized them.

Mind you, I also wish they had weapons mounted on armed as replacements for Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, but them's the breaks.

Maybe they'll include Mortis Pattern Dreads in the IA: Apoc book if we're lucky.

Serraphim
03-12-2007, 23:23
For names, wikkipedia is a good place but is also sometimes wrong. For Archangel names, the best place to look is Enochian books and Kabbalistic teachings. The only really rule I've come across is that Archangel names are 7 letters long.

Shadow-BOT
03-12-2007, 23:31
I say good luck, currently I'm tryying to get the 2nd company, which is ravenwing, which might take me a few years to do.

I think 15 dreadnoughts per company sounds allright, and 20 for the deathwing, who have 5 venerable dreadnoughts.

PotatoLegs
03-12-2007, 23:32
I'd also beg to differ about only the Deathwing having Venerable Dreadnoughts. As proof that other companies besides the Deathwing have Venrable Dreadnoughts, I cite this modeling article (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/darkangels/painting/dreadnought/default.htm) on GW's US site. They do a Venerable Dreadnought for the Ravenwing in it.

I would say all Deathwing Dreads are Venerable, but not all Venerables are Deathwing.


I beg to differ to this even - as I said above I personally reckon all marines who've been put into dreadnoughts would've actually been inducted into the deathwing. To me, it just makes more sense this way, irrespective of what the current fluff says


I think 15 dreadnoughts per company sounds allright, and 20 for the deathwing, who have 5 venerable dreadnoughts.


FIFTEEN???!!!:eek: That makes a total of 150/160 for the entire chapter, how the hell do you figure that???? :wtf:

aad
03-12-2007, 23:46
i have three compagnies(and still painting......:rolleyes::D)

dark angel based called: CORE

-first company is called: corekeepers and they have all the dreads (12 of them)and all the landraiders (12 of them)
-second company is called: corewing and they have 10 landspeeders and 40 something bikes.
-third company is a devastator company with 40 guys with heavy guns.
they have acces to 10 different vehicles 2 rhinos,3 predators,4 razorbacks,1whirlwind.

3 company,s is about cool enough i think. their 3 different company,s en 7 more would all 7 be the same as the others.

so its not all about the rules.
you can,t field a battlecompany in a normal 40k game so there,s no problem with any rules.
and if you play apocalypse you can play with anything you pretty much want.

do whatever you feel like.

i would normally put 3 dreads per company. but my fluff is different than the original dark angels rules say.

Xyxox
04-12-2007, 01:26
I beg to differ to this even - as I said above I personally reckon all marines who've been put into dreadnoughts would've actually been inducted into the deathwing. To me, it just makes more sense this way, irrespective of what the current fluff says

Hmmmm....

You're free to do what you want. I've been doing the same thing you have and have dreads in the Deathwing, the Ravenwing, and the Third Company (and since I've been adding extra tactical squads via a Sixth Company, I'll probably include one there).

I was just going by the fluff. Under your example, there would be no black or green dreads at all, and we know by the pictures in the Codex, there are green dreads.

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 01:59
Yes that's right, I personally have decided to disregard the green dreads, and certainly don't believe there'd be RW dreads. I also reckon there shouldn't be any landraiders painted in DW colours- more for a personal aesthetic reason, becasue DW colours make LRs look like novelty cakes. But also in the chapter composition, landraiders aren't assigned specifically to the 1st company, but instead come from the general armoury the whole chapter uses.

I realise this may not be too everyone's taste, but this is how I choose to interpret the fluff and painting options available to me.

ankara halla
04-12-2007, 02:39
As to the number of dreads in a chapters posession, according to some pretty old fluff, the Imperial Fists have a total of seven dreads in the chapter.

Make of that what you will, but I've lived under the assumption that dreads really are ancient and venerable machines and that there aren't that many around.

Xyxox
04-12-2007, 02:49
Yes that's right, I personally have decided to disregard the green dreads, and certainly don't believe there'd be RW dreads. I also reckon there shouldn't be any landraiders painted in DW colours- more for a personal aesthetic reason, becasue DW colours make LRs look like novelty cakes. But also in the chapter composition, landraiders aren't assigned specifically to the 1st company, but instead come from the general armoury the whole chapter uses.

I realise this may not be too everyone's taste, but this is how I choose to interpret the fluff and painting options available to me.


I have to disagree again because I have the DA codex open right this minute and on page 15 for the Deathwing it lists Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders as support vehicles under Deathwing, plus again you have pictures of the bone white Land Raiders.

You're free to do whatever you want, but under a strict interpretation of the fluff, the Deathwing has Land Raiders.

I will further point out page 30 where it indicates under the heading of Venerable Dreadnoughts that these dreadnoughts are serving in the deathwing which doesn't square with the Ravenwing Venerable Dreadnought shown on the GW website.

End of the day, you put together your models the way you want and paint your models the way you want. It's all good. Under my interpretation of the fluff, my third company will have two Venerables and two standard Dreadnoughts, all Dark Angels Green.

:)

Corax
04-12-2007, 03:44
Just off the top of my head, I would say there should be 3-6 in the Deathwing, 1-3 in each Battle Company, and 0-1 in each Reserve Company. That would give you a range of 6-18 for the whole Chapter. Which sounds about right for a First Founding Chapter.

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 04:00
I have to disagree again because I have the DA codex open right this minute and on page 15 for the Deathwing it lists Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders as support vehicles under Deathwing, plus again you have pictures of the bone white Land Raiders.

You're free to do whatever you want, but under a strict interpretation of the fluff, the Deathwing has Land Raiders.

I will further point out page 30 where it indicates under the heading of Venerable Dreadnoughts that these dreadnoughts are serving in the deathwing which doesn't square with the Ravenwing Venerable Dreadnought shown on the GW website.

End of the day, you put together your models the way you want and paint your models the way you want. It's all good. Under my interpretation of the fluff, my third company will have two Venerables and two standard Dreadnoughts, all Dark Angels Green.

:)

oops, I was pretty sure there wasn't any landraiders under the DW section for the chapter organisation. They still look like baked goods when painted bone-white though. And by your reasoning then the idea of a Ravenwing Dreadnought is totally out of the question, because I'm pretty certain that there isn't any inclusion of one under the Chapter organisation diagram.

Yes, I'm well aware of the sentiment of your last comment, and that's exactly what I'm exercising here. As a result both my dreads are painted with deathwing colours, and I'm mighty proud of how they turned out. Likewise, I'm willing to except that someone will want to make a Ravenwing Dread, I just wouldn't do it myself under the pretense of how I interpret the fluff and colour schemes

dark-hamish
04-12-2007, 04:03
I am the last person to ever critisize what some one else does or doesn't do with their models or interpretation of fluff. I choose to go strait chapter fluff with the only model variance being modifications for character or more DA iconary. I will say that I believe that ven dreds will be only in DW. It goes to the secrets. A line company battle brother who is intered would not be raised to the DW. He would be kept with his company to continue in the role that he had filled so well in his physical form. Ven dreds were only a step away from inner circle before interment.and would not be sent back to a line company. The information on fighting and finding the fallen would not be wasted elsewhere.

My dreds will all be bone white for venerable and DA green for all the rest. The RW dreds are cool, but that is more liberty with interpretation than I will take.

I am also inclined, with respect to others, that the DA being the first founded chapter would have more dred than the other first founding chapters. It goes to their obsessive nature. As such, I also keep my marine's armor clean and don't add battle damage to my support vehicles.

Agrip. Varenus Denter
04-12-2007, 13:41
Do as you wish, but I think 2-3 should be sufficient for each Company, but no more than 4.

RavingGuard
04-12-2007, 14:17
nice plans dude, i love dreadnoughts.

made an interesting (well i think) battle formation for them in apocalypse, here it is.

Ancients Assault

100 points + models

Required; 1 venerable dreadnought
2 dreadnoughts, any variety
1 techmarine

optional;
any number of extra dreadnoughts.

special rules;

Authority from Knowledge; The venerable dreadnought leading the assault is a truly venerable and ancient member of the chapter. Any dreadnoughts from the battle formation within 6" of the venerable dreadnought may ignore crew shaken results.

Deep Strike; The battle formation may deep strike with lethal accuracy. The Venerable dreadnought is placed first (scatters as per rules), all other dreadnoughts (and techmarine) may then deep strike within 6" of the venerable dreadnought and not scatter. (as if the ven dread had a teleport homer)

hope you enjoy my home made rules.

ursidae
04-12-2007, 14:32
I will say that I believe that ven dreds will be only in DW. It goes to the secrets. A line company battle brother who is intered would not be raised to the DW. He would be kept with his company to continue in the role that he had filled so well in his physical form. Ven dreds were only a step away from inner circle before interment.and would not be sent back to a line company. The information on fighting and finding the fallen would not be wasted elsewhere.

I have to disagree here dark-hamish. To me, when you say venerable dread it doesn't mean that the member inside of it is venerable when they are interred, but that the interred member has been in the dread for a long period of time and has become venerable. Therefore IMO the dread could still be assigned to his original company and be venerable, as I doubt that since a dread is deactivated between battle actions he would be raised to the inner circle after being interred.

Although, I could also see dreads being part of the armor pool and allocated to specific actions as the master of the armory saw fit. I believe unit markings are changed or added as neccessary and the dead warriors heraldry is displayed in accordance to honor and not to attach him to his previous company. Again, I am in no way the authority on this subject and it is YOUR hobbyso model away as you see fit my friend :cool:. Just wanted to throw that in there.

Xyxox
04-12-2007, 14:40
I am the last person to ever critisize what some one else does or doesn't do with their models or interpretation of fluff. I choose to go strait chapter fluff with the only model variance being modifications for character or more DA iconary. I will say that I believe that ven dreds will be only in DW. It goes to the secrets. A line company battle brother who is intered would not be raised to the DW. He would be kept with his company to continue in the role that he had filled so well in his physical form. Ven dreds were only a step away from inner circle before interment.and would not be sent back to a line company. The information on fighting and finding the fallen would not be wasted elsewhere.

My dreds will all be bone white for venerable and DA green for all the rest. The RW dreds are cool, but that is more liberty with interpretation than I will take.

I am also inclined, with respect to others, that the DA being the first founded chapter would have more dred than the other first founding chapters. It goes to their obsessive nature. As such, I also keep my marine's armor clean and don't add battle damage to my support vehicles.


I gotta agree, the web site seems to contradict what the codex says about Venerable Dreads. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Ven Dreads should be in the Deathwing.

BladeWalker
04-12-2007, 14:51
I would like to see 3 full companies of marines if you have a picture. I am on the side of the fence that thinks Vens belong in DW only also. How many points is 3 companies? Is it just for the collecting or are they all fieldable as a Apoc army or something?

Xyxox
04-12-2007, 15:04
I would like to see 3 full companies of marines if you have a picture. I am on the side of the fence that thinks Vens belong in DW only also. How many points is 3 companies? Is it just for the collecting or are they all fieldable as a Apoc army or something?

I've been convinced that Vens should be DW only after re-reading the Codex. I'm just going to assume that Ven Dread modeling article on the GW web site was modeling for the sake of modeling and isn't canon.

A straight Battle company runs about 3500 points with no vehicles, give or take a few hundred depnding upon how you equip it.

The Deathwing complete would run about 4600 points with no vehicles, again, depending upon how you equip it.

The Ravenwing would run somewhere in the neighborhood of 3700 points.

Total cost for those three companies with vehicles for the Battle Company and a few land raiders would be about 15,000 points.

In terms of points only, I'm about halfway there. I've got the Third Battle Company and three Tactical squads from the sixth. I'm barely started on the Ravenwing and have a quarter of the Deathwing.

Ghost Of Caliban
03-01-2008, 05:11
I'm pretty sure it says ALL venerables are in the death wing, wheather they are on lone to a battle company or not...

SpaceLanceCorporal
03-01-2008, 05:15
Dreads rule. That is all.

Ghost Of Caliban
03-01-2008, 05:21
you know i was thinking how cool a dread with two tank tracks would be..would suit ravenwing much better...