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Earlandir
16-09-2005, 20:39
I have tried countless times to use my 4 Rat Ogre models in 2k battles, but they have never done anything useful, and for the steep 200 point cost they must have a purpose. Cn someone tell me how to use them? Thx :D

Brother Edwin
16-09-2005, 21:49
I have tried countless times to use my 4 Rat Ogre models in 2k battles, but they have never done anything useful, and for the steep 200 point cost they must have a purpose. Cn someone tell me how to use them? Thx :D

Dont.

But if you do, use them in 2 man units and try to get flank charges. Also casting death frenzy on them can overide the crap Ld.

DeathMasterSnikch
16-09-2005, 21:52
meh mine work in a group of 3 usualy. Cheap but usualy hide behing night runners to avoid unwanted charges. then charge back :p

Just either charge them down a flank or keep them in the main battle line but an inch or so back so they charge into already engaged enemy units. worked for me

Brother Edwin
16-09-2005, 21:57
But what when someone destroys the Night runners with magic and then the rat ogres panic?

DeathMasterSnikch
17-09-2005, 13:34
That only applies if they are on the flank.

So either take a character with them, hope that doesnt happen and if it does look on the brightside. Thats one less spell directed at the rest of your force. If your concerned about the point waste from fleeing rat ogres dispell it.

In my games my night runners dont usualy get attacked. Big blocks of clanrats usualy draw more attention but i usualy use my Rat ogres as part of my main battle line not a flanking force.

KuDriM
17-09-2005, 13:34
Then rat ogres don't stop run until they go out of the game table.
I have tried to use them in several 2k battles but they never have done anything... except to die or run due to panic checks.
Sometimes, they can be useful to protect a flank against light enemy units, but i would use other units (swarms p.e.)

Greetings

DeathMasterSnikch
17-09-2005, 13:37
actualy if you invest in taking a character with them ( worth it for a 150+ pt unit ) they can get quite a bit of staying power.

My rat ogres necer get left behind, well some models do but i always have a unit in there even if its just a single rat ogre to charge in and cause another panic test.

Angelripper
17-09-2005, 15:34
I think they should be used same as Trolls. In the Battleline backed up by the General and BSB near by. They are too powerfull to be ignored by your opponent so he will try everything to shoot'em down. if he do so the rest of your army is quite save. if he don't its his fault and they will spank him. Worked with Trolls everytime and they got even less LD and are stupid.
Ok, I always put a big unit of savage Orcs behind them so when they are shot to pieces the Orcs rush through the hole in my line and do what they can do best. :angel:

just my two cents

KuDriM
17-09-2005, 18:44
A war lord has L7. I would not trust in pass all the checks. I continue thinking that ogre rats are a bad option for a skaven army for his deficiency of heros or commanders with a decent leadership.

Greetings

Angelripper
17-09-2005, 18:50
A war lord has L7. I would not trust in pass all the checks. I continue thinking that ogre rats are a bad option for a skaven army for his deficiency of heros or commanders with a decent leadership.

Greetings

Well, I forgot about the heroic leadership of rats. :angel:
At least the BSB has the same effect and they can reroll ther crapy LD test

skavenguy13
17-09-2005, 21:34
As previously said, you can death frenzy them, but IMO it would only be useful if you have 3+ rat-ogres. I'm using 5 mad rat-ogres in my bubonic court list and their main problem is there's nothing to screen them so I must get in CC fast or get shot/magic to death.

In my normal lists, I use units of 2, sometimes 3. 1 is simply not enough for US, 2 is risky if you lose the packmasters or a rat-ogre, 3 is perfect but costs 150, 4 costs alot and takes a larger place, 5+ costs way to much and is way too large, unless you want to charge head-on.

Small units have 3 uses: They can be set on a table edge and prevent flank charges by threatening anything that comes by.
They are just the good size to go 2" faster than the other rats and wheel at the last second for a flank charge.
They can make a head-on charge with a weaker unit. Anything with 3 ranks will do, even 20 slaves. You have 3 ranks and outnumber and the kills the rat-ogres will do, which should be enough to win.

I screen them with night runners when I can. The runners go straight forward the 1st turn and can go away in the 2nd if I went fast enough. Then they can do normal NR stuff like mage hunting, march block, etc.

Urblad
17-09-2005, 22:27
my rat ogres usually do quite well, except against the high elves where i only had 1 that got shot before it was useful.

i use em against weak units that can't do anythin about it. i'v never won a battle but the rat ogres do well. in theory they can be excellent

DeathMasterSnikch
17-09-2005, 22:35
A war lord has L7. I would not trust in pass all the checks. I continue thinking that ogre rats are a bad option for a skaven army for his deficiency of heros or commanders with a decent leadership.

Greetings


Bad option my leg! youv just put down an amazing unit without a thaugt.
No army can be trusted to pass all tests but saying what you say makes it seem like taking something with the chance of fleeing isn't worth taking at all.

In that case we might as well do away with goblin and skaven armies.

Used apropriatly rat ogres can be devistating :mad:

And 1 isnt to small if used correctly. A fear causing charge can do one heluva lot of damage if your rat ogre is kept alive. and ive seen higher than 5 rat ogres in a unit. Quite devestating :evilgrin:

Izram
17-09-2005, 22:45
I don't think I have ever seen them do well as a 'main battleliner'. 2 of them is cheap enough for a flanking unit. They are pretty fast and 2 of them is not a big target. My problem with rat ogres is that they take up a choice, and ratswarms do a better job in almost anything.

Urblad
17-09-2005, 23:02
i agree that rat swarms are good at holding up units and not running away but they can't wipe them out and get rid of the problem. using a team of rat swarms and rat ogres would be a good idea in theory and i might just try it.

DeathMasterSnikch
18-09-2005, 00:25
My rat ogres hardly ever go flanking unless i can't think of a good reason for them to be in main battle line. eg: fighting undead.

The rat swarms dont cause fear and tahts the main use of my rat ogres. A fear causing unit of clanrats or stormvermin charge, then 1,2 or even 3 rat ogre units will charge. ( ive never split them into 3 units of 1 but its tempting against low LD enemies) must experiemnt on gobbos :p

Oh and trust me. rat swarms CAN and will wipe out units. do NOT underestimate the swarm.

KuDriM
18-09-2005, 14:20
I'm not saying that one army has to pass all its check in the battle, but, in this case, the fact of to fail a panic check can be really dangerous. If we use a rat ogres unit to protect a flank against light enemy units and it decides to flee (due to panic p.e.) we will have a big hollow in our flank that, playing with a skaven army, can imply a lose battle in a few turns. And this is a mistake that we can't permit (I think that it's obvious).
Rat ogres are, in this aspect, similar to jezzails: they can be useful in a lot of cases but a inopportune check in a determined moment can make that we lose a expensive unit or (worse) we have a unprotected flank in our battle line.
Due to this disadvantage, I think that we can include better units than rat ogres in our lists (or, at least, more trustworthy).

Greetings

DeathMasterSnikch
18-09-2005, 15:06
You put them down as a unit not just as flankers.

more trust worthy...

Ok so what is more trust worthy?

All skaven troops have low LD its part of the army. no matter waht is put on the flank there is a high chance of it running (bar swarms)

Rat ogres however have the advantage of causing fear and since most flanking units are either skirmishers or other fear causing units fear is one of the best defences.

Against a skirmishing unit- they get no rank bonus to help in combat and generaly have a low LD.Prime targets for rat ogres.

Fear causers- Ok so the rat ogres will cancel out the fear. something no other skaven unit could do (bar skrolk who would cause it) and mostlikely fight the enemy headon.
whereas other skaven flankers will have an incredibly poor LD and no rank bonus so will most likely fail without devious tricks.( a vital part of akaven play)

evenar
18-09-2005, 15:52
to overcome the ld prob take a warlord and because the packmasters count as a rank you can get +1 ld
or use slaves as a fire screen they dont cause panic

DeathMasterSnikch
18-09-2005, 16:15
That is a bad idea.Puting your warlord on the flank for the sake of a rat ogre unit. He is needed at the core of the army not on a flank. Send a hero lvl character.

oh and a pack master doesnt coutn as a rank. If you still dont know why ask but you should know this realy... pretty basic :rolleyes:

KuDriM
18-09-2005, 23:33
To protect a flank I use to put a slaves unit and a pack. The skaven general don't must be in the flank, but, at least, he must be near enough for use his leadership with these units. Then, I have slaves with L9 or L10 and a pack with L6 or L7.
If I'm playing against a enemy who has units which cause fear, I can use slaves (with a great leadership) to stop or, at least, redirect them to places in which I can charge them by flanks in my next turn with clanrats. I can use the pack too if my intention is to flee of this units.
If I have to play against light units, I can use slaves to stop them. With combat modifiers by 3 rows and numeric superiority it's difficult that they can lose a combat against a light cavarly unit or a skirmishing unit. I even can use the pack to charge against skirmishing units with some guarantee for win the combat. In any case, skirmishers are the perfect target for ratling guns.
I have proford this combination of units in a flank and it has been useful in all occasions.
Probably, the leadership rank of our general can't be used for units of the opposite flank. Then, we can use the swarm to protect the other flank (without dependency of the general's leadership).
This form of protect flanks is very verified. I can assure it.

Greetings

PD: How difficult is to understand the things that I write with my "english" xDD??

Earlandir
22-09-2005, 05:54
last question. if i must use 4 rat ogres, should i field them in 1 or 2 units? i have extra special choices btw so that doesnt matter ;) Thx

skavenguy13
22-09-2005, 22:29
Why would you have to use 4? I think only 3 would be better. Anyway, if you ask me, 2 units of 2 would be perfect, one at each flank.

Earlandir
22-09-2005, 23:33
ya, im gonna play a 3k game and i have about 3060 points of models, so i gotta use all 4 :( so ill settle with 2 units of 2 :)