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View Full Version : Is all orcs effective? & Choice of warmachines



Slaaneshi Ice Cream
03-12-2007, 20:18
Is an all orc O&G army effective at beating stuff up? Seriously, I want to know. Something like

Orc Warboss
Orc scroll caddie
Orc BsB
Maybe nother caddie

Buncha boyz plus archers
some fast cav
warmachines
and for RARES: TROLLS!!! Next to the general of course. Or maybe a giant.

And as for warmachines, given the choice of bolt thrower and stone thrower, which one is, well, better? Assume the doom diver is out because that's all gobbos.

And is the pump wagon any good?

Makarion
03-12-2007, 20:25
You'll badly want a black orc warboss and/or unit in there, or you may be squabbling all day while you're picked apart at range. And without bolt throwers, you'll suffer in the shooting phase.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
03-12-2007, 20:40
Well, you're kind of all over the place, but I play Orcs and Goblins and do pretty well with them. What you put in your army depends on what size you're playing and it can help to know who you'll be playing against. But an all-comers list isn't impossible.

I think unless you want to do some magic damage, two shamans in kind of a waste. Get one and make him a 2nd level. If you give a big group of boyz the magic banner that adds +1 dispel dice to your pool for each rank bonus, you'll be able to protect yourself pretty well against your averaged sized magical attack.

The trick with Orcs and Goblins is big units full of blood-thirsty greenskins. I field my boyz in groups of 25 or higher. 30 is ideal, and if you can get 40 for your goblins, excellent. Because they die pretty easily. Regular goblins are almost useless, Night Goblins are the way to go. Fanatics or even the threat of Fanatics will really give them an advantage. Squigs Hoppers are ALWAYS included in my army, they are worht their weight in gold. Also a couple units of Spider Riders to get around the flanks and harass powerful enemy units is also good. Last week a unit of 10 brought my opponents unit of Chaos Knights down to below 50% right at the end of the game, and kept them busy by scuttling around them the entire time before that.

The war mahcines are fun, and can sometimes be helpful, but are more often just a nuisance to your opponent at best. Spear Chukkas are cheap and you can get two for one Special slot, but until the enemy gets closer than 24' you'll be hitting on 5+. Doom Divers are nice in that you can adjust the landing spot, but sometimes you'll only roll a few hits. Rock Lobbers are great because of their template, but you've got to be careful about the scattering onto your own troops.

Despite the bad reviews I've seen on this site from other players, I find giants to be incredibly useful and effective in my army. Not only psychologically as a threat, but also by smashing into units and winning combats with Yell and Bawl without the other unit even getting to attack. Also, mine has never fallen over. It's magic. I've never used trolls, they seem awfully expensive but Fear-causing units are great to mess up your enemy's battle line. Which brings me back to the giant!! Terror is amazing.

Archers aren't particularly useful, orcs are much better are getting stuck in with the enemy then shooting them from far away. Ruglud's Armored Orcs, however, are pretty incredible with their crossbows and Ruglud himself has the attributes of a big boss without taking up a slot! Plus in an Orcs and Goblins army they only take up a Special slot, so you can still field that giant, troll, pump wagon, or two!

Anyway, that's the little bit about orcs that I know so far through my experience. Big groups of boys, bosses with magical weapons and armor to carve their way through enemy characters (although I constantly roll poorly to hit with mine...), spiders to harrass the flanks, squig hoppers to take down anything in their path (yes, I cannot emphasize enough how awesome these little guys are), war machines to get a few lucky kills, and some scary monsters to mix things up a bit. Animosity can be rough, but you've got to take the good with the bad. The Orcs and Goblins are the most fun and exciting army out there, I think. I hope this has helped, good luck!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

Slaaneshi Ice Cream
03-12-2007, 21:04
I'm really trying to stay away from fanatics because they are so random and dangerous to everything on the board. And goblins in general don't seem good at anything, except as sacrificial units (for example, drawing out fanatics).

If I do go ahead with goblins I definitely want squigghoppers. The rules made me laugh and the models are great. And like you said, squiggs are nasty.

As for warmachines, sounds like the rock lobber is the way to go. Once I'm good at guessing distances it might be effective, barring a misfire. Do O&G have anything to let you re roll misfires?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
03-12-2007, 21:11
No, you cannot reroll misfires. But I have yet to roll a misfire in my games, despite my terrible luck with everything else. Plus, the warmachines are cheap so if you lose them int's not a big deal. As for Fanatics being random and dangerous to everything on the board...well, that's pretty much Orcs and Goblins in a nutshell. After your first game where one units rolls a 1 for Animosity two turns in a row, or your Fanatic runs right back into your unit of Night Goblins, or you roll 6 and charge directly into something you may not have wanted to... well, then you'll know what being an orc is all about. I like the randomness, it helps remind you that despite all of your planning, there is still a lot of luck involved. It helps Orcs and Goblin players from taking themselves too seriously. I'm convinced that all players who do Warhammer for the fun of it will at one time or another gravitate towards Orcs and Goblins.

Gorbad_NZ
04-12-2007, 02:53
Go for a giant, they are way too fun to miss out

Braad
04-12-2007, 06:40
Sweet.
But if you really want to do the list you had in your opening post...

Do it!
Orcs are great. I rarely field a Black orc warboss since my Orc warboss model is just much cooler :p (and bigger, it's the biggest orc in my army. Even the Grimgor model looks small next to him)
Trust the orc, but not too much. But even despite a bit of animosity, they won't let you down if you just make sure you bring enough of them.

For the rest, please take trolls. Everyone says they are bad, so take them. Be original. Just like me :p

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-12-2007, 07:29
You'll badly want a black orc warboss and/or unit in there, or you may be squabbling all day while you're picked apart at range. And without bolt throwers, you'll suffer in the shooting phase.


Black Orc characters, yes. Black Ork boyz, not so much. Expensive, takes a valuable special slot, and not really all that more impressive than the normal boyz.

But yeah, a horde of orks with some support and lead by a few reliable characters should be able to do just fine.

memitchell747
04-12-2007, 15:57
Is an all orc O&G army effective at beating stuff up? Seriously, I want to know.

It's OK. It hits pretty hard, and it can take a punch. But, "effective" is the operating word. Animosity keeps it from being effective, because it keeps the army from fighting in a coordinated fashion. Some folks love this; they think it is very Orcy. But, if you don't like loosing games through no fault of your own, and no particular ability of your opponent, beware.

Something like

Orc Warboss
Orc scroll caddie
Orc BsB
Maybe nother caddie

Buncha boyz plus archers
some fast cav
warmachines
and for RARES: TROLLS!!! Next to the general of course. Or maybe a giant.

Fast Cav. and Warmachines are Goblins, not Orcs. Still, you need them. Either go heavy magic, or low cost defensive magic. Nothing in between is worth the points. I have never bothered with Orc archers. To put things in perspective, Trolls next to your Ld 9 Warlord (not Warboss) have as much a chance of going Stupid as he does of not moving at all. He also has the same chance of making an uncontrolled move. In other words, the Trolls will move (or not move more than 3") as often as he does not move.

And as for warmachines, given the choice of bolt thrower and stone thrower, which one is, well, better? Assume the doom diver is out because that's all gobbos.

If you guess good, the stone thrower will do more damage. But, it is very unreliable. Depending on the opponent, you almost always need spear chukkas (got to get the lingo right). They are often all that stops a terror causing something from scaring half your army off the board.

And is the pump wagon any good?
I like to bring two because they are cheap, two-for-one, and the Rare slots are not so dear. They unusually attract a lot of shooting, which is good for the rest of the army. They are very difficult to actually get an impact charge off. Either they get shot up, they move too slow, they get charged (and can’t flee), or the opponent flees. I was watching a recent game where a new Orc player was rolling like a god, and he got his Pump Wagon to hit a unit of HE Spearmen. There were four other experienced Orc players watching (five in all, including me). Not one of us had before seen a Pump Wagon actually hit anything worthwhile except our own units.

This brings me back to the word “effective”. In these games, the more you roll dice, the more bad things that can happen. The Orc army has a whole extra layer of dice rolling that more often that not is bad to disastrous. If you roll well, this army is good. If you roll average, this army is not so good. If you roll poorly, this army is terrible. You can’t fix this. You have to accept the army will loose despite your best efforts.

sephiroth87
04-12-2007, 16:42
Or....you could build the list with plenty of units that don't test for animosity and are small enough to not panic your other troops, babysit the expensive animosity prone units with black orc characters, and double up on cheap animosity prone units and run them together so that animosity doesn't often become a problem.

memitchell747
04-12-2007, 21:14
Or....you could build the list with plenty of units that don't test for animosity and are small enough to not panic your other troops, babysit the expensive animosity prone units with black orc characters, and double up on cheap animosity prone units and run them together so that animosity doesn't often become a problem.
Not very Orcy, is it? Animosity is the armywide special rule that defines the Orcs, and it is the only armywide special rule that players try to avoid.

Draeven
04-12-2007, 22:08
I usualy roll black orc warboss, Orc shaman, orc bsb, and Night goblin shaman, 1 big unit of 25 orcs, 1 big unit of 20 blorks, 2 units of 5 spider riders, and then either 2 chariots, rock lobba and spear chukka and as my rare usualy 3 to 4 trolls. I now have a goblin doom diver wich i will be using now also. If your not a fan of chariots roll a unit of boar boys. I tend to use the spider riders as charge bait. Stick the warboss in with the boys and the banner also. you can then put thge orc shaman in with your unit of blorks and then have the goblin just chill in the backlines and off to the side of one of your other units.

I have done well with this list, also you could drop the blorks and orcs down my 5 each and spend the savings on a unit of night goblins. As you want to run all orcs, i would suggest go ahead. You shouldn't have to much trouble and you wont get masscred unless you screw up completely.

BigbyWolf
05-12-2007, 11:34
I would suggest that you never, EVER put a black orc character in a unit of animosity sufferers. I know someone who has a habit of putting his B.O Warboss in a unit of Savage Orc Boar Boyz...and on 2 separate occaisions have seen him wipe out his own unit thanks to the newer rules for B.Os and animosity.

As for warmachines...Rock Lobbers all the way...providing your guessing is accurate.

For me the best Orc is the humble Orc armed with H/W, L.Armour and a choppa, as a unit of 30 with gull command in under 200 points. Now that's a bargain IMO. I like 'em so much that I try to avoid using any form of goblin infantry in my army. A horde army of actual Orcs is impressive to see, fun to use, and being able to win without fanatics is always satisfying.

Oh- and never leave home without 2 pump wagons and Morks war banner.

Tzeentch Loyalist
05-12-2007, 14:43
I've run orcs since 5th edition and I love them... The new rules are excellent if you're an orc player... me.. I love gobbos, night gobbos to be exact. The old rules for gobbo's were great, very cheap and you could take an additional goblin big boss per 1k pts, so in a 2k pt game you would have 6 goblin characters. Now we are back down to 4 in a 2k pt game. Not so bad. Once i get home from my deployment, i'm going to pick up some war machines (spear chukkas, doom diver, and rock lobbas), get a few trolls, another box of fanatics, and squigs. They were fun in 6th edition. Unfortunately, i was disappointed in the orcs in 6th edition and sold them off. stupid decision. Now I'm building them back up. I just love gobbos, because they are gobbos, who cares if they die. Plus it always fun to win with gobbos, because you opponent doesn't expect it (haha you lost to gobbos)

But back to orcs, I lent my orc army to a friend of mine and watched as his black orc warboss do more damage to his own unit, than my dwarves did... That BO killed more models than any other. We were playing a 4 player, 2k pts each game, chaos and orcs, v empire and dwarves (all my armies btw) and the bo had more kills than the chaos lord. I lost that game, but it was fun. Orcs are awesome and i highly recommend putting a bo warboss in a unit of big un's. No being stopped by animosity (just slightly bruised). In a big enough unit, the few losses that you do suffer would be negligable. just don't put them in a unit of boar boys, not worth the risk.

With orcs, go with chariots, they are a great buy. boars str 5 on charge, d6+1 str 5 impact hits, movement 7. Take 2 and pair them up with a unit of 10 or 12 boar boyz and have at it. And go with the trolls. Fear, str 5 t 4, regeneration as well as the special abilities of the stone and river trolls are great. An orc and goblin army is all about unpredictability. The bottom line is, just have fun with it. Don't worry about winning and losing with them, just have fun and laugh at their exploits. Trust me, with O&G, both players have fun.