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Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
04-12-2007, 01:15
I have 15 minutes to teach my high school class about warhammer 4k. I know I will be called a nerd, but to be honest, I couldn't care less. I am thinking of doing a 5-minute run-down of the game/histroy (maybe using powerpoint) and then a 10 minute game-demo. Here lies my problem. Is it even possible to play a demo-game of warhammer in 10 minutes?

I am thinking of having a 2X2 board with a bit of terrain and then pitting Space Marines against Tyranids. What should I use to have a short and fun game? Keep in mind the demo will not be using the more advanced rules like morale checks, or target priority as these will only confuse people and waste time.

Lord Raneus
04-12-2007, 01:22
You might want to call it by the right name, Warhammer 40k. That's a start. :P

I wouldn't advise a demo game. Take two squads, one of Marines and one of Nids, and demonstrate.

Vesica
04-12-2007, 01:23
Urm, i would say if you can use the best of both armies models or maybe have termies vs stealers or something.

Good luck

Zanzibarthefirst
04-12-2007, 01:30
try having a look at bfm

Micro
04-12-2007, 01:43
in the older rule books they had examples of how the game goes. one model vs. another. you can show movement, shooting and assaulting in this way. just remember that 15 min. time aren't actually 15 min. you have to substract a couple of minutes for set up and general unrest. i'd say you have about 12 min. all together. also, your 5 min. explanation time is kinda too short. there isn't just background but also a models stats to explain.

IMO, skip the hole demo game and just bring some nicely painted minis to show around. much more interesting. if people are interested they can get in touch with you after class.

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
04-12-2007, 01:56
Okay. I think Iv'e got it. I will have a 10-minute powerpoint. Then (with a board already set). I'll have a really fast-few rounds of 40k using some nicely painted Dark Angels and Necrons/Tyranids from my local store. THey are pretty easy-going so i think it'll work out.

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 02:00
What's this presentation for?

TheNZer
04-12-2007, 02:58
Brings oem models along and give an overview of the game (without going into the nerdy bits) show on powerpoint some cool poses (like SM on the toilet) apeal to them without sounding to Nerdy.

The UnNamed One
04-12-2007, 03:07
Yeh stay away from the really nerdy bits, make sure the models look good. have them in nice, make sure any scenery is good looking as well. With your examples, stay away from more advanced rules like Rending, Ignoring armour saves and Instant death (they arnt that advanced, still stay away from them though)

n00bLord
04-12-2007, 03:11
If I were you, I would not dare to give a demo game, even as fun as the idea would be it would only make a fool of yourself. A few minute demo game would be pointless, and would leave a more mixed review then just showing a power point of the history and bringing some models to show off. Show it as a hobby before a game, and that seems to attract better attention in an atmosphere such as a high school. My .02 cents

JimmyP0567
04-12-2007, 03:27
40k must not be very popular in Brampton? :/

I count at least 6 or 7 players that I know of for sure around my school.

Khorghan
04-12-2007, 03:49
wow what a great idea!!!

*says sarcastically*

why would you want to do this?

Dakwan
04-12-2007, 04:53
If i can recall anything from high school besides under-age alchohol consumption it was that people are both intolerant and spiteful due to their own insecurities and ignorance. If you are dead set on it i would suggest basing it around the conversions and painting of the models as a type of legitimate art (which it most certainly is) and then as a kind of foot note mention that there are actual wargames you can play with your painted models if you desire. You can spend a few minutes speaking about 40k and other wargames without getting into specific rules.

Just my 2 cents.

nomadimp
04-12-2007, 06:40
I'd stay away from the history/story of the 40k universe. Simply mentioning that it exists and there are novels etc is sufficient imo. The reason being is that the 40k universe is, well... a universe. And universes dont get explained in 15 minutes. If you start on a central story, like the Horus Heresy, you will be without any frame of reference (whats a space marine, who are the Chaos Gods, whats this emperor? etc) and you will be sorely tempted to try and provide that frame of reference to an uninterested audience. While I love the 40k history, in my experience its simply too big to explain to someone in one sitting. When you are talking about something you are actually interested in, 15 minutes flys by pretty fast -- but that same 15 minutes for someone who isnt interested can be an eternity.

As far as being called a nerd its really all about how you present it. I was fairly popular at my school and gamed heavily, with all sorts of people. Usually I'd 'convert' people to try the game out and they'd be hooked. Mostly because I was about half as self-conscious as everyone else (which was still way too much). Mentioning the Dawn of War video games to introduce it is a decent segway since video games are a pretty widely accepted past-time now.

The exact mechanics of the game arent likely to thrill anyone either. So I like where you are going with the demo game. However, watching someone else play the game when you dont know what is going on isnt all that interesting either. I speak from experience here when a girlfriend of mine wanted to watch a friend and I play a game in college just because he and I would talk about it a lot around her. Setting up the board and looking at all the models was interesting to her but after about 1 turn she decided she was going to watch some tv.

Which is why I think a diorama is your best bet. Set up a cool scene with your models. If you are really into the history, then set up a historical event in the 40k universe. This lets you explain what is going on in the scene, giving some history but keeping it limited enough to be reasonable and accessible (people can see what you are talking about). You can talk about how you set up the diorama, painted it etc. Then you can talk about how its a game, using the miniatures to play out scenes like the one you made using a tape measure to move on a battlefield and dice to do attacks (like in Risk, a game that most people have played and can relate to).

All of that can easily take up 15 minutes, power point is overrated as well, esp when you can have a 3D diorama instead. It also gives you enough leeway so that you can talk about it more or less, as is necessary.

Either way, good luck to you. Also if you approach it with confidence then people usually wont be immediately dismissive, but you do have to throw people a bone and talk about the parts that are likely to interest them (which might not be the parts that interest you).

MuttMan
04-12-2007, 06:46
If I were you, and if your serious enough about this... I say hold a demonstration outside of school, near an entrance, and have walk-ins. Give all units without number/wave style combat. Basic guns, basic melee troops, no upgrades.

Keep it simple. Ignore synapse and we'll be back stuff, even ignore leadership entirely. Use marines, and use bugs. Have each person use a unit and split existing units between newcomers that want to try it out.

Then, have a vehicle bash later.


Do not do it inside class, where everyone is staring at you expecting something brilliant. Maybe do a history report of a certain unit, and bring the unit into class to show everyone the depth of 40k. They will acknowledge the books and art before the game in the classroom.

If they ask what the game is like, tell them a blend of Risk, Chess, and 200+ bucks using 20+ hours completing an army.

Darkseer
04-12-2007, 06:48
10 marines VS 30 orks

That's all you need to show people how to play
It's simple!

Visionary
04-12-2007, 07:28
If it's for an English aural then show off 'Rules Lawyers' and 'RAW' to show that you have great understanding of the English language ;) .

azimaith
04-12-2007, 07:34
I'd avoid a demo game, takes too long, no one will know what the hells going on. Better to stick to the really impressive parts. Show people models people have painted.

fwacho
04-12-2007, 09:01
best reference is to use one model from each army to explain basic game mechanics. (move shoot,charge) you can set up on the podium with nothign but he models for extra speed. make sure you blend in the poses and pictures on your power point. start with the darker images first then cut to the guy on the toilet. show some amazing models and then terrible one to help peopelunderstand a good paint job. show that crazy ork with the space mairne picture after showing off orks and space mairnes preferably in combat poses. try to give them enough baseline to laugh at the funny stuff.

Stick primarily to the power point. focus on main rules and tell what the rules accomplish as opposed to how.

Jedi152
04-12-2007, 09:05
Yes, i'd avoid a demo game - no time and people will just get confused. Explain what the game is and give a quick run down of game mechanics - explain that it's D6 based, explain the phases and that models have statlines and point values to make it all fair and the like. Say how people love to convert and paint them to a high degree. Show some lovely armies (with the owners consent of course) and end up with how they can get involved - mention your local GW store or say they can contact you.

Eulenspiegel
04-12-2007, 09:13
Perhaps not a demogame as such, I agree. For a presentation there should be a short demonstration of a game, maybe a tactical maneuver or demonstration of a particularly cunning use of wargear in a given situation.

Example:

Quickly set up 5 Marines and 10 Orks, 10" apart.
Say that it´s the Marines´ turn and they now have the choice to move and fire their boltguns or to move and charge the Orks. Point out how this is mutually exclusive and that it´s just one of the many tactical decisions one has to make during a game.
Do the first alternative: fire the Bolters (maybe 1 Flamer, too), see how many Orks die. Then put the Orks back and say that now you´ll try the second alternative: close combat. Charge the Orks, let Marines get whacked by Nob with Powerclaw.

This should not take more than 5 minutes alltogether, but will give people a good idea what a 40K game is like.

In my opinion, at least a short game-demonstration should definitely be in a presentation.

scratchbuilt
04-12-2007, 09:55
Warhammer is no longer so complex that it needs to be taught in lessons at school. And it's not going to help kids find employment.:cool:

the_picto
04-12-2007, 10:59
How about taking photos of various steps in a turn, moving, shooting, assaulting etc, with the dice next to the models. Much like they do in the rulebook itself. Then incorperate these into the power point presentation.

Having some models on display would be a good idea. Perhaps pick something awesome from each army if you can get hold of the models.

Captain Micha
04-12-2007, 15:18
I wouldn't do a demo game at all. What I would do though, is bring along some well painted miniatures, and express them as art (someone else said this already but it really is the best way) and explain that you can also use these in a wargame. Maybe briefly describe the general idea of the game (that it is a very dark fantasy setting for starters) and maybe hit some high points mentioning the dawn of war games as another example.

Don't get into the specifics of game mechanics out right. Explain the basic premise of how the game works.

If you do want to get into specifics I suggest you do it in a format similar to how the podcasts for warhammer's mmo are done.

Using Space marines or Imperial guard would probably be your best bet. And definitely have some Tyranid on hand to show what some of the 'bad guys' might look like.

Mort
04-12-2007, 16:34
Tell em its like chess with guns and a load of luck.

Or give them an overview of the hobby:

The hobby consists of the aspects of modelling,painting and last but not least gaming.

the game itself is quiete complex,there are different rules for different models,its played on a scenery simmiliar to model train terrain,and so on.
Tell em thta a whole background universe exists,and about the novels,comics,fan-art and so on.

maybe tell em about the history of GW,when it was founded and so on,the events like games day,and maybe prepare a little power point presentation with golden demon winning models,pictures of games and so on.

Dont tell em about the fortune GW charges for little plastic soldiers,or you will find yourself in the next asylum.

Emperor's Avenger
04-12-2007, 17:24
Wear a knife-proof vest.

ZigZagMan
04-12-2007, 17:36
I would use some cut scenes from Dawn of War, like say the video at the very beginning of the first version. As much as DOW is not really 40k that scene is great in describing space marines and orks.

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
04-12-2007, 20:18
I am having a 5-minute power point on what Warhammer 40k is using lots of pictures. I am then showing a still-motion movie on you-tube to show what warhammer is NOT. Then I'll show off some minis. Then maybe a small 2-round demo game or something.

And to the people above that bashed me for wanted to present on 40K i already said i don't care what people think. It's my last semester of high school. I've played D & D with like 8 people in 2 campaigns at school already. I am not ashamed of being a nerd. I embrace the fact proudly:wtf:

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 20:36
Again, what is this presentation meant to be for?


i would suggest basing it around the conversions and painting of the models as a type of legitimate art (which it most certainly is)


Eh? No it isn't. It's a skill, certainly, and requires a sense of aesthetics and composition, but it's definately not an art in its own right. Its simply a medium

Destris
04-12-2007, 20:46
Eh? No it isn't. It's a skill, certainly, and requires a sense of aesthetics and composition, but it's definately not an art in its own right. Its simply a medium

Which is, of course, complete and utter trash.

Art is anything you want it to be. There have been several threads on this, and you have absolutely no right to condemn the artistic talents of many people who decide that their chosen art form will be painting miniatures.

Sure, this may seem harsh, but at the end of the day, telling a kid that what they've done and they're so proud of isn't art at all is much worse.

D.

Xenocidal Maniac
04-12-2007, 21:08
Again, what is this presentation meant to be for?




Eh? No it isn't. It's a skill, certainly, and requires a sense of aesthetics and composition, but it's definately not an art in its own right. Its simply a medium

Pedantic semantics.

It's art, my friend. Or it's an art medium. Whatever.

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 21:17
Which is, of course, complete and utter trash.

Art is anything you want it to be. There have been several threads on this, and you have absolutely no right to condemn the artistic talents of many people who decide that their chosen art form will be painting miniatures.

Sure, this may seem harsh, but at the end of the day, telling a kid that what they've done and they're so proud of isn't art at all is much worse.

D.

You've totally, completely and utterly misinterpreted me.

And you realise its pretty much a lamen's excuse to say "oh anything is art if you want it to be". That only holds any truth in the very vaguest of ways, and insults the people who bother to put time and effort into the research and development of the themes and ideas they want to communicate with their art.

Now I would never tell a kid in a deroagtory way that their immaculately painted ork isn't art. But the simply fact remains is that it isn't. Its an exercise of skill and ability, but beyond that it conveys no message or theme, beyond one of aesthetics. That is the ultimate defining paradigm for art and what seperates the stuff you see in galleries to the designs you see in magazines, and seperates your granny's water-colour paintings of a creek with the great masters.

This is not meant to be a nasty or spiteful comment, but an assesment I see as an objective one. I will still heap praises on the abilities of people who can sculpt and paint well, but you just can't compare it in the same context as i do 'art'

dblaz3r
04-12-2007, 21:39
Well to me that sounds kind of insulting to those of us that aren't as refined in our artistic endeavours as those people out there that think they are.

Also, I am sure that some of those same great masters were shunned in their time and told that their work was not art. But now it is.

On topic, i'd say good luck for you presentation, I wouldn't go with much of a demonstration though but thats just me. Im sure the science fiction nature of 40k will appeal to a fair few of you're audience. Speeches are so much easier if you're interested in what you're talking about. And like you said who really cares what a bunch of immature school kids think of you when you'll probably see little of them after you leave school.

Destris
04-12-2007, 21:56
You've totally, completely and utterly misinterpreted me.

And you realise its pretty much a lamen's excuse to say "oh anything is art if you want it to be". That only holds any truth in the very vaguest of ways, and insults the people who bother to put time and effort into the research and development of the themes and ideas they want to communicate with their art.

Now I would never tell a kid in a deroagtory way that their immaculately painted ork isn't art. But the simply fact remains is that it isn't. Its an exercise of skill and ability, but beyond that it conveys no message or theme, beyond one of aesthetics. That is the ultimate defining paradigm for art and what seperates the stuff you see in galleries to the designs you see in magazines, and seperates your granny's water-colour paintings of a creek with the great masters.

This is not meant to be a nasty or spiteful comment, but an assesment I see as an objective one. I will still heap praises on the abilities of people who can sculpt and paint well, but you just can't compare it in the same context as i do 'art'

You say I misinterpreted you, but then the rest of your post seems to show I haven't.

You say the fact remains that it isn't art; you back this up how? This fact came from where? Says who?

Miniatures can convey messages and themes just as well as work on canvas.

Your last comment, though is different. You say "i do". That then is fine. In your opinion, (IMO which is small minded, but as I said, opinions...), miniatures are not art. In many people's opinions they are.

Agree to disagree. ;)

D/

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 21:59
Well to me that sounds kind of insulting to those of us that aren't as refined in our artistic endeavours as those people out there that think they are.

Also, I am sure that some of those same great masters were shunned in their time and told that their work was not art. But now it is.

Its only insulting if you think I'm comparing painting and modelling to art by arranging them in some sort of heirachy and saying that art is up there and our hobby is down there. But I'm not saying that, I'm just pointing out that there's very different approaches and intentions between the two activities. Certainly you could use sculpting and model painting to achieve an artistic idea, but that's not what we are doing here.

Effectively you could say that painting a pre-made model is comparable to a colouring in book, or tracing an existing picture, albeitly a lot of people here exhibit excellent skill in doing so.

And while the great masters may not have been appreciated in their time, it was often becasue art was clearly a commodity, and people only made money by painting portraits instead of being able to exercise their creative freedom.... a very different situation again to this hobby.


You say I misinterpreted you, but then the rest of your post seems to show I haven't.

You say the fact remains that it isn't art; you back this up how? This fact came from where? Says who?

Miniatures can convey messages and themes just as well as work on canvas.

Your last comment, though is different. You say "i do". That then is fine. In your opinion, (IMO which is small minded, but as I said, opinions...), miniatures are not art. In many people's opinions they are.

Agree to disagree. ;)

D/Yeah ultimately I can see this just ending on a agree-to-disagree compromise :p

But I prefer to address your points a little more because I often feel people fail to exercise critical faculties when they just lump everything together in art. Its the danger of post-modernism, its too easy to just label everything as its own subjective truth ;)

So how will I back up my reasoning? Well, I will challenge you to present an example of a GW modelling project that successfully presents a concept that is both pertinent and progressive. The reasoning I think the way I do is because I haven't seen any examples myself, after 12 years of flipping through army books and White Dwarfs. I realise the whole thing looks pretty pompous, but again remember I'm not saying that art is 'better' than painting models. Its just a different activity with different intents and outcomes



So I really should relate this back to the OP, seeing this is getting dangerously off-track; while I applaud his willingness to show he doesn't care if he receives criticism for indulging in 40K, is this all he wants to show? Or are you trying to just show peopel that this stuff goes on, in the hope a couple may be interested? Or are you just charged with havign to present SOMETHING for your last semester, just for the sake of it?

I think having some context as to what the guidelines to your presentation are would help decide what about the hobby you really should show-case

Dakwan
04-12-2007, 22:12
You've totally, completely and utterly misinterpreted me.

And you realise its pretty much a lamen's excuse to say "oh anything is art if you want it to be". That only holds any truth in the very vaguest of ways, and insults the people who bother to put time and effort into the research and development of the themes and ideas they want to communicate with their art.

Now I would never tell a kid in a deroagtory way that their immaculately painted ork isn't art. But the simply fact remains is that it isn't. Its an exercise of skill and ability, but beyond that it conveys no message or theme, beyond one of aesthetics. That is the ultimate defining paradigm for art and what seperates the stuff you see in galleries to the designs you see in magazines, and seperates your granny's water-colour paintings of a creek with the great masters.

This is not meant to be a nasty or spiteful comment, but an assesment I see as an objective one. I will still heap praises on the abilities of people who can sculpt and paint well, but you just can't compare it in the same context as i do 'art'

I'm sorry. but no. I'm all for supporting different opinions but not when someone is this close minded. You say model painting is just skill and ability.... then what is painting on canvas? I am a painter and i can say there are many paintings i end up stopping because i don't have the skill to bring my vision to life. Model painting is the exact same thing, you have a vision of an end result you want for a model and you work towards creating that vision. If you end up creating bland stock ultramarines that doesn't make it not art, it certainly lacks originality but i'll be the first to admit i've recreated art by famous painters. Because i used someone elses vision does that make it not art? Even if you consider painting just a step on your way to a 40k match does not mean everyone feels the same. go to www.coolminiornot.com and look at the top rated models. It's like saying someone creating a statue out of marble isn't making art just because it requires knowledge and skill.

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 22:16
Well, that's exactly how I'd see it. And if you're recreating other painter's work, I can't see how you'd consider that art?

I also fail to see how this is close minded. Perhaps I could say you're close minded to refuse to think painted minis are anything but art?

a statue carved out of marble can be a simple exercise in skill and experience too - its the INTENT that's important, and again that's what I see as defining the two activities

Its all a slippery slope we're dancing on

Mott
04-12-2007, 22:17
Tell us how this goes,

personally

i think its social suicide.

Most of my good friends dont even know i play, only ppl in my hobby group.

Idk where you live, may be different there.

But id be branded as a loser in seconds. People dont see the art in it.

catbarf
04-12-2007, 22:29
I am then showing a still-motion movie on you-tube

You will have the entire class rolling on the floor laughing. I'd advise against it.

Eulenspiegel
04-12-2007, 22:30
Take that art discussion somewhere else, will you? :p
This thread is a brainstorming to help a fellow gamer who boldly goes where no nerd has gone before :D

PotatoLegs
04-12-2007, 22:32
Yeah sure, he still hasn't answered what this presentation is meant to be about though :(

n00bLord
04-12-2007, 22:36
It has nothing to do with your social life kabal, but who in the hell wants to watch some kid move toys on a table around in class throwing dice around while they have no idea what is going on. That will not allure any one to the hobby, they may like the models and ask about them, but getting all excited and hurling dice at your marines and bugs won't help you out any in this presentation. Period. HS is not the place to do something like this, if you want to do a demo get someone or someones at your house and have one there. It'll be much more effective.

TheHaunted
04-12-2007, 22:53
if you really want it to be kewl then show the trailer for dawn of war.... you know that video be fore that game starts..

BrPrometheus
05-12-2007, 00:01
Ok,
I assume you are giving the presentation for some sort of class project where you get to speak on any subject and you chose something you are passionate about. Cool. I see what you are trying to do overall but I agree with what has been said above. A demo game is too much. While I liked the concept of the 10 marines shoot versus the 10 marines charge is a nice concept it will not fly in the face of your audience. remember you are presenting for the benefit of your audience not yourself. You must attract their attention not your own. Now I have been out of high school for too long to count but I do presentations as part of my daily life and the key is to keep your audience in mind. From what I remember of high school I would think the following is true:

1. 90% of the class has no interest in what you are presenting
2. Explaining the mechanics of 40K in less than a demo game in a one on one situation is nigh impossible. And not necessarily the objective of your presentation.

So what does that leave you with. Make it entertaining. You are not trying to convince these people to play you are trying to entertain and perhaps inform them of your hobby. That is cool and should be respected by everyone. The key for any presentation is to have a point. Do you want to just present your hobby? Do you want to present something about your hobby? How about your involvment in the hobby. Frankly, I think there are a number of interesting topics that could be presented based upon what you want to communicate. Here are two ideas:

1. An Introduction to Games Workshop 40K
A. Show the dawn of war opening video cut out. It is a really nice production and provides a frame of reference for most teenagers. You should be able to download this from somewhere.
B. Tie the computer game to the board game. For this I think a board set up with minatures and some cool terrain would be good. make sure the terrain board looks cool and the minatures are the best looking that you can find.
C. Explain how the board game existed well before the computer game.
D. Show the different components of the hobby modeling, painting and gaming. Bring examples if possible of some great minatures to pass around.
E. Explain in principal how the board games works, how armies are created, how objectives work. Keep this very simple kill more of their guys than they kill of yours while taking an objective.
F. Explain why you are passionate about the game what you like about it.
G. etc.

Idea 2. Explain the economics of 40k
A. Show the dawn of war trailer
B. Show the board game.
C. Show all the books you own.
D. Show an entire army
E. Explain the cost structure of building a new army.
F. Drag up the financial statements from GW's website. talk about the returns they have to make in order to stay profitable. Explain the difficulties of owning an independent retailer when competing with the web.
G. Show the benefit of the computer/videa game tie in and make a point that in the end GW will have to transition their core business away from models to remain profitable or (or something like that if you agree with it or not if you doen't).

Good luck. remember to think about your audience. Also you need to keep your objective firmly in mind. Do not just show your hobby you must have a purpose in presenting your hobby or you will ramble.

Bretonnian Lord
05-12-2007, 01:21
Show them videos from Dawn of War. Most of them probably won't care about the models but when they see the videos they'll sit up and say "Cool! Humans killing aliens!" :rolleyes:

You're a brave man, I don't think I could stand up in front of my high school and teach them about Warhammer. :D

Good luck!

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
06-12-2007, 23:44
I presented already and it went well. I explained game basics and showed them lots of pictures from a powerpoint presentation i had set up. I had basic game mechanics, pictures of all the armies, and pictures of how to assemble and paint a necron warrior. I passed around random minis as well. No time for a game demo though. The class was interested believe it or not, and liked the minis i showed them. I got an 80% for my presentation.

You see I was passionate when i talked. All other presenters muttered and read off of notes...boring stuff. As long as you sound confident I wouldn't think presenting warhammer 40k in school would be a bad thing. You got to have the guts to do it though. Come out of the nerd-closet so to speak. As for social suicide well... I don't really care waht other people think of me as. If they are going to judge me a nerd for playing Warhammer 40k so be it.

And you know the class-clown who you know would most likely make a stupid remark? I was surprised. He didn't make one! He only acknowledged that i had guts to present...and he offered to partake in a game demo. Ran out of time though. Thanks for the remarks all.