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Fulgrim's-Chosen
04-12-2007, 12:17
Hello guys. I only recently got into WH-Fantasy, and have greatly enjoyed it. I started out playing (and still am) a Daemonic Legion of Slaanesh (Slaanesh being my favorite Chaos Power even back to my 40-K playing days).

I'm aware of the Daemonic Legion forum (other site) after being told about it by Warseer vets who frequent both places and it's a great resource for D-Legion talk, tactics, etc.

In any case...while reading over it earlier today, I noticed an older post dated May-28-2007 by one of their posters who included a large (combined) Q+A // FAQ written about the Daemonic Legion army. Most of the answers to the questions (the ones important to this posting of mine at least) ...are by Games Workshop themselves in White Dwarf Q+A sections...and thus "should" be "official" - I would think.

Here's the link to the Q+A posting in case anyone wanted to look at it for background on what I'm referencing here:

http://z7.invisionfree.com/wyrmling_x/index.php?showtopic=2823


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Now...the thing that most interested me / caught my eye was the question about Daemonic Legion Cavalry models. . . specifically the Pleasureseekers of Slaanesh, Mounted Daemonettes, Plagueriders, Changebringers, and Bloodcrushers (of Khorne).

The question reads:

Q. Being cavalry, do the new Daemonic mounted units get +1 to their
armour save for being mounted?

A. Mounted Daemonettes, Changebringers, Plagueriders, Pleasureseekers,
and Bloodcrushers are all cavalry and thus gain +1 to their Armour
Save. Note that this is already included in the Bloodcrushers' 5+
Armour save.

S(ource). October 2004 Issue of White Dwarf Magazine (US #297 / UK #298)



This would be huge news because I don't recall reading about this from other players here on on the other D-Legion specific site all that often...and because it would suggest that all those above-mentioned units have 6+ Armor Saves, in ADDITION to their 5+ Ward Saves ... the Bloodcrushers are an exception, as the White Dwarf Q+A answer mentions, because they already factored in the +1 Armor Save to them for being mounted when they wrote up their unit profiles...they simply took their "Light Armor" (6+) that they have when they (the Bloodletters riding the Juggernauts) are on-foot, and added the +1 for being mounted to it to arrive at the 5+ Armor Save value they have listed in the Storm of Chaos book or online-PDF of the Army.


So...to write it out again...here's what this is saying:

Mounted Daemonettes: 6+ Armor Save, 5+ Ward Save

Plagueriders: 6+ Armor Save, 5+ Ward Save

Changebringers: 6+ Armor Save, 5+ Ward Save (in their case it's actually spelled out for you that this is what they should be in the Storm of Chaos unit-entry itself)

Pleasureseekers: 6+ Armor Save, 5+ Ward Save

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Note that while the Q+A classifies them as Cavalry for the purpose of getting the +1 to their Armor Save....the Pleasureseekers, Plagueriders, and Bloodcrushers are unique in that they don't follow ALL the "default" rules for Cavalry as laid out in the Big Red Book. Specifically...the Storm of Chaos book tells you exactly what those units' unit-strength value is...."3" for each of them. This is important because it differs from "normal" mounted units like the Mounted Daemonettes (Unit Strength 2 each) or Brettonian Knights (also Unit Strength 2).... and ALSO because, per the Killing Blow rules on pg-95 of the Big Red Rulebook.... the Pleasureseekers, Plagueriders, and Bloodcrushers cannot be "Killing Blow"ed because the KB attack is only effective on models with a US of 2 or less.

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So...anyways...this was a bit long, but I thought it was interesting, nonetheless. If you guys have heard of any (more recent) FAQ or commentary stating something against this, please let me know. If not...then I would think it's pretty clear that all the Daemonic Heavy Cav units (and the Mounted Daemonettes which are "normal" cavalry) benefit from a 6+ Armor Save (or better in the case of the Bloodcrushers)....as well as their 5+ Ward Saves.

This isn't CRITICAL in most games...but I think, against armies with a lot of STR-3 units or ranged firepower, it would upgrade the survival rate of those expensive Daemon units slightly to have an extra 1/6 chance to stop the damage before having to fall back on the Ward Save.


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Helpful Reference:

Even if the actual Model (Daemonette or Plaguebearer) is not wearing any armor (on their model), the fact that they are mounted grants them an armor save of 6+ - pg. 30 - 7th Ed. Rulebook

theunwantedbeing
04-12-2007, 12:49
They are mounted cavalry models so gain the +1 armour save.
Simple, so they do get 6+ saves.
And the bloodcrushers got ripped off by "only" getting 5+ saves.

Indeed they cannot be killing blowed as they are us3 and killing blow only works on us2 or less.

Not a massive change as the legion list is now illegal in some places.
But for those that still use it, its a welcome addition that Im sure most people have already spotted.
(if you play a daemonic legion you'll look for any loophole to try to offset that horrific "poof" roll for being a damned daemon lol).

T10
04-12-2007, 13:08
Hello guys.

(... huge post ...)



Yes, cavalry models get a 6+ armour save.

-T10

Makarion
04-12-2007, 17:33
Nice to see it confirmed of course, but not too many armies rely on S3 attacks. As a result, a 6+ Sv is little more than a nice touch.

EvC
04-12-2007, 19:05
Yeah, I found this a while ago, I'd asked some Daemonic Legion players to prove it before and they hadn't.

Also of note: a Changebringer can be Killing Blowed :)

Fulgrim's-Chosen
04-12-2007, 22:36
Right...because, as Flying Cav, they have only US-2 ...I guess that's a little touch to Tzeentch being a bit soft in CC (makes sense) compared to the other Daemonic Powers.

Also...right...it makes sense that they should have gotten it all along..but keep in mind that the SoC actual book...and the online PDF they still have for download and use on the GW site....(neither) have a note saying "these units get a 6+ Armor Save AND a 5+ Ward Save".

So I suspect there are many players who aren't really aware of it (if they didn't know about that 2004 Q+A commentary).


Note...interestingly enough...that a Daemonic Herald (SoC Hero character)...who has paid Points for a Daemonic Steed (monstrous mount) like a Juggernaut, for instance... would NOT get the +1 Armor save since he's actually (literally) riding a Monster (as opposed to the combined profile Bloodcrushers, for example) ....and he'd also be subject to Killing Blow (the Herald himself) since he's only US-1.

I guess the trade-off is that even if he's killed, the Jugger can still run around bashing things (potentially).


* - note - few places that I've heard of regularly prevent D-legion from being played (no GW-stores that I know of - only some tournaments and even then it's not THAT common - - - Games Day GT-Chicago-07 which was held in the past few months here allowed Daemonic Legion, for instance *