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Malorian
04-12-2007, 13:42
So this would be the list I would be using for the knockout tournament tomorrow. It's a lot like the one I've been using but I've changed it a bit.

2nd gen Slann w/ ASB, plaque of tepok, diadem of power (535)
*So he's the general and the army standard bearer, and he gets an extra spell*

Scar vetw/ burning blade, light armor, shield, itzl, tepok, tzunki, cold one (167)

Scar vet w/ great weapon, light armor, shield, sotek, tepok, charm of the jaguar (153)

Lvl 2 Skink priest w/ rod of the storm (135) *one use bound lvl 5 item that does 2d6 str 3 (str 4 if armor is 4+ or better) and causes a panic test*

Lvl 2 Skink priest w/ 2 dispell scrolls (150)

20 Saurus warriors w/ full command (270) *JSoD goes here*

20 Saurus warriors w/ full command (270)

15 Temple guard full command (305) *Slann goes here*

9 Saurus cav, banner bearer w/ huanchi's blessed totem (375) *cold one scarvet goes here*

10 Skinks w/ javs, scout (70)

10 Skinks w/ javs (60)

10 Skinks w/ blowpipe (60)

10 Skinks w/ blowpipe (60)

3 Salamander packs (195)

3 Salamander packs (195)

Total: 3000

Thoughts?

UltimateNagash
04-12-2007, 13:50
Drop the champions in the Saurus units that don't have the Slann in to buy musicians for the Saurus Cavalry...

Oh, and personally, I prefer the Slann causing Fear or getting rid of it being a Large Target, instead of moving it - but that's just me...

Malorian
04-12-2007, 14:08
Unfortunately I don't own any cav that are musicians or I'd do that in a second.

Guess next time I get a box of them I should get excited and put them all together without thinking...

UltimateNagash
04-12-2007, 14:24
Could always just cut the shields/whatever off and add a horn... You know, convert it ;)

Malorian
04-12-2007, 14:41
That's not really an option... I'll just wait until christmas and get another box.

So do you think this is too much magic? I've thought about taking out a skink priest or two and putting in scarvets on coldones. But I'll be facing a lot of magic (at least 8 levels worth) and I don't want to be beaten in the magic phase...

RaZeR
04-12-2007, 14:58
It is a LOT of magic, but it might be pretty handy... if you're putting that many points into a slann, it's usually worth going the whole hog, magic wise...

However, a few suggestions:
Firstly, definitely don't put your slann in the saurus with spears. The slann goes in the second rank, so you're wasting most of the attacks the second rank of saurus would give with their spears. You also want the slann's unit to be pretty hard, as it's likely to attract a lot of attention. Therefore the extra save in H2H from HW/Shield will help. Also there's not much point using huanchi's blesses totem on saurus with spears, as the second rank don't get to attack on the charge anyway...

If you have the model, it might be worth giving huanchi's banner to one of the units of cold one riders, to give a sneaky flank charge.

As regards the equipment on the skinks... Personally i don't really think the blood statuette is worth it, but it might be at 3000 points if you're expecting magic-heavy opposition. Remember you have to nominate the character before the battle...
Also, i didn't think skink priests could scout... I know skink chiefs can, but even if a priest can do it, I'm not sure what you're hoping for him to achieve??

Lastly, it might be worth taking out one skink priest and shifting magic items around a bit to get a JSOD. They get even more useful in larger games, and can do a surprising amount of damage. Whether using a scar vet or an oldblood, mine has never failed to make his points back again...

Hope it helps, good luck :)

Malorian
04-12-2007, 15:26
I like the spears because they add extra punch. I realize that it's not as good because the slann is taking away two attacks but this also leads to one of my traps. The opponent sees my unit of spears and doesn't expect me to wait for the charge, and line up to hit me. Then I move up and use the banner to charge them. I don't get the spears on the first round, but if they last for another one the opponent is in trouble.

I could take them out and put in temple guard, but then I'll only get 2 rank bonus's, but it might be worth it in the long run.

Skink priests can scout and my main reason to do this is either to use him to counter other scouts (so I can cast slann spells through him) or to act as a missile magnet. It's crazy how much people will through at him even though he's with a unit in cover. But if I do go with the JSoD, he would be the first to go.

A lot of people don't like the blood statuette, and I'm still trying to decide if I want it. It's nice to take a wound off a mage so that a miscast would likely kill them, or to have the chance that they will be killed right there, and since I have so much magic I just get rid of their dice and use it at the end. But I'm still not sure about the math hammer. Against a 2 wound toughness 3 mage it will only kill them 25% of the time. It's 30 points so to be worth it it has to kill 120 points over 4 games, which is barely worth it... I'll really have to think about this one...

A scar vet w/ great weapon, light armor, shield, sotek, charm of the jaguar would be the trade off if I remove the priest with the statuette and scout off the other... tempting...

edit: done!

RaZeR
04-12-2007, 17:27
The trap is a good idea, but i still think you're wasting half the potential of the spear unit by putting the slann in there. The tram would probably work better with one of the HW/shield units, especially as saurus with spears are DESIGNED to take a Charge and still hit back...

I do like the JSOD :)

Finally, with your 7 points you might as well add another skink to one of the screening units, if you have another model. Every little helps ;)
BTW what weapons do your skink units have?

Malorian
04-12-2007, 17:43
Ok, I made a few changes. What do you think of it now?

Changes:

-Removed two skink priests (statuette/scout)
-added JSoD
-added scarvet on coldone
-combined saurus cav, removed 1, and added banner
-transfered magic banner to cav
-changed 20 spear saurus to 15 temple guard
-removed 2+ ward from slann
-removed musician from 1 unit of saurus

RaZeR: I put javs on the scouts and blowpipes on the regular.

RaZeR
04-12-2007, 17:55
looking good... You can keep your spear saurus if you want mate, I dont want to change your army entirely :P

You could split the cav again, and give one unit the banner, and put the scar vet in the other one?? i dunno if 10 is too unwieldy...

Final suggestion (probably :P) would be to swap the skink's weapons around. scouts are better with blowpipes because chances are they dont have to move as much, so you're more likely to be able to get double shot... (Plus range is longer, which helps). The shields wont make a big difference on your screens, but they might help a bit :)

Malorian
04-12-2007, 18:39
No, you were right about the spear saurus. It is ok to work the mental game, but it's just better to have them as temple guard.

I'd like to have them all with javs but I don't have the models. I put javs on the scouts because I usually have to use them to go after warmachines, and it usually takes charging them to do it, so the 5+ save really helps.

Vsurma
04-12-2007, 18:59
I wouldnt count the blood statues benefit just with basic math myself!

imagine if the enemy has 3 mages, one of which gets a spell that is utterly devastating against your army... Say pit of shades! (aka Slann killer) or the like...

What do you do then??? use the statue on them, 50% chance it takes 1 wound and is subsequently easier killed via miscast or your missile fire or the 25% chance it takes the guy out in 1 go... You do not have to nominate who it will be used on pre-game. That is with the Bane Head.

Even with mathhammer, chances are your using it on a T3 mage with no armour (or even T2 against lizzards!) so you have a 25% chance of killing it outright... average cost of mage is what? 130-150pts... done.. you also have the 50% chance of doing 1 wound... so what 65-75pts...

So over 4 games you will likely do avg 140 + 70 + 70 + 0 = 280/4
So 70pts damage on average for a 30pts item

This is not counting the actual in game benefit of saving that slann from a nasty hole etc.

If you can fit it in the list... why would you not?

How much more likely are your 3 skinks that get into btb with a enemy mage when charging to kill it if it has 1 wound rather than 2??? Beuty

Slann probably doesnt get look out sir rolls as its a large target so Cannons and bolt throwers might scare the Slann even in the unit, problem? I always run mine with 2+ save but then again its not in a unit so its a different game.

5+ save??? thought skinks had no scaly skin or light armour, don't they... nevermind. I am guessing javalins count as a hand weapon in CC?

Malorian
04-12-2007, 19:18
Skink have handweapons as well, so 5+ save.

There is a problem with your mathhammer. It only works half the time so it would be 140+70+0+0, not 140+70+70+0. I also wouldn't say the average hero mage is 140 points.

Don't get me wrong, I've used it for a while now and like it, but I'm just trying to fine tone my list and I don't think it's returns are good enough.