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View Full Version : HE Tactic Vs. Chariots



eagletsi1
04-12-2007, 18:45
Ok I did this the other night in a game and a few people got upset, because of it.

Take a Prince, Give him Armour of the Gods, Great Weapon and Vambraces.

His Chariot charged me and after impact hits, I struck first killing the chariot outright with my seven strength.

Everyone at the club started saying you can take armour of the Gods now that the new book was out and complaining. I have not seen anything that states albion items are no longer legal was this an ok combination to use?

It there something I missed about albion items?

Let me know,

Malorian
04-12-2007, 18:57
It's always a good idea to clear things like that before you play. I think that with the new book that is surely is questionable to use it...

eagletsi1
04-12-2007, 19:08
So are you saying that all Albion items are no longer able to be used with the 7th edition

Malorian
04-12-2007, 19:11
It's one of those things where it doesn't say it isn't, but using items based on previous rules is questionable.

I'd let you use it against me, but you might want to let other know you are doing it to be safe. You don't have to say exactly what you are using, but that you are using items from that book in general.

eagletsi1
04-12-2007, 19:27
Well the minute I say I'm using something from Albion. Everyone would know it was the Armour of Gods. I mean the Fusil is ok, but the armour of gods is great. I even have 3 models converted using it.

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-12-2007, 19:48
I'd say that generally, the Albion items was meant to work with the army book they were released with, and if they didn't made it into an updated book, that's just tough luck.

I wouldn't expect to be able to use the various DE items in a new DE book either.

But yeah, asking before you use it would go along way towards making people willing to accept it, so that's what you should do.

And I don't think it can really be called 'tactics' :p

eagletsi1
04-12-2007, 20:29
So for now any armies that have new books cannot use Albion items, but armies without new books can? That seems weird to me and a bit unfair. So the Dark Elves can still use their gauntlet while the High Elves are not allowed to use there Armour. How are we as players supposed to know these rules if no one publishes them. So times I wonder about GW and their non caring attitude about these things. "It's ok just let players decide" I know GAV talked about a FAQ a while ago. I hope he puts this into it.

eagletsi1

night2501
04-12-2007, 20:29
meh as the others i was expecting some tactic discussion about facing chariots, not to discuss the use of a item that as the other hav enoted should not be there fro mthe start... you should have at least asked permission to the other player for use it...

now about tactics to deal with chariots with HE ...
I think the forst and most obvius would nbe magic/shoting, most elite units of the HE are quite weak against chariots, PG might be good at taking chariot charges due to the 4+ ward save and fear, other way would be redirecting them with fast cavalry or just plainly charge them with cavalry

Copenhagan
04-12-2007, 20:52
I have ask the same question to the guys who work my local Games Workshop and they said it's ok to use the item because it is a White Dwarf artical. But still the best bet is to ask permission.

Havock
04-12-2007, 20:59
It's possible, best way? Get a cannon or two, that'll teach them! :p

marv335
04-12-2007, 21:42
HE vs Chariots?
Prince on a barded horse and a Starlance. charge the chariot, no impact hits, four attacks, any one wounds, it's dead.
Alternatively, a Prince on a star Dragon will do similar things to chariots.
in this case, 6 S7 attacks, any one will destroy the offending chariot. With the long charge ranges of these units you should be the one charging thus denying the impact hits.
as to the armour of the gods, I thought it was now illegal with the new HE book

the anti santa
04-12-2007, 22:09
I suppose it comes down to how "official" you consider the Albion items to still be in 7th Edition.

I know that one of the reasons GW banned SoC lists from their UK tournaments was that they wanted all the players to be familiar with the lists and so only use lists from books that were still in print.

Albion was quite a while ago now and the items were only printed in an old white dwarf (and a compliation too if memory serves) so there are plenty of players who've started in the last few years and would have no clue that these items even existed.

Personally I think it was silly of GW to put them in the WD without a big "players permission" sign over them, make them a fun thing like the clan moulder skaven list, rather than a nasty combo that you can spring on new players.

I'd say ALL Albion items ceased to be vaild once 7th edition came along.

theunwantedbeing
04-12-2007, 22:20
I dont see anything wrong with using albion items with 6th edition armybooks.
But with 7th edition it seems a bit silly.

It's a bit like using your 5th edition magic weapons on your 6th edition character's to get insta kill abilities or whatever.

If you want tactics to stop chariots.
Flee as a charge reaction.
Shoot them.
Charge them with your own stuff.
Magic.

You dont need to resort to a single character on foot with an out of date magic weapon.

the1stpip
04-12-2007, 22:20
Sorry, but the Albion items should not be used with 7th ed armies.

You get a brand new spangly book and items, while 6th ed have to use older rules.

And the other thing is, every army has a weakness. There is a reason why ASF goes after Impact Hits, if they didn't, the High Elves would have to be a lot more expensive. It is part of the weakness.

And most armies can't field many chariots anyway.

Xzazzarai
04-12-2007, 22:26
I wouldn't allow anyone I play against to use those items from the 6 ed.

Ender Shadowkin
04-12-2007, 22:33
I believe Gav was quoted right after the 7th came out that there were not going to be any more "official" rules addendums and alternative lists, effectivally de-officiallizing all of the SoC lists and Things like the albion items. I think his statement is Rule book plus Army book (in print) is official, thats it.

Now some tournaments will lists things they accept, like certain SoC lists, and units (Rhinox riders) but what does official mean anyway? Your free to make up your own rules, you just have to agree with who you are playing what the rules are going to be. If that group does not use Albion items, that's the way they play.

In general if you are using anything outside of the rulebook and your current army book you will need to make that clear to the people you are playing with. Ideally you know the lay of the land when you show up to play. There is no more "official" stamp on anything GW puts out besides army books (and the BRB of course).

Just Tony
04-12-2007, 22:48
I think the whole problem would be fixed if GW just came right out and said in a WD article "All Albion items and Chronicles lists are no longer allowed" Of course that would hose anyone playing the Dark Elf garrison list, or any sixth edition army with a force still based off of a 6th edition army book.

And for the record, I run the albion models as well. I sincerely doubt anyone would complain about an odd Truthsayer or Dark Emissary showing up with his swamp monsters. Hell, I think everyone would be perfectly FINE with the hexstaff on an Empire Wizard or that Sword on a Dwarf character. I think it more comes down to the fact that it's first strike High Elves with a magic item that pumps up strength combined with their new and frighteningly good SoA. Having used that combo on a HE lord before, it can be REALLY vicious, and does kill chariots good. In the time I used it against the chariots, the impact hits wiped out a whole unit of Swordmasters before they could do anything, leaving just the lord, who then promptly smacked both chariots to matchsticks. Truth be told, the only difference to this situation happening in the old HE rules vs the NEW HE rules is that he actually hit me twice with no wounds before I smashed them away.

Have they made an official ruling on the SoC lists? It'd be nice to know if I have to totally revamp my Grimgor's 'ardboyz list. And with my little brother wanting to get to a Cult of Slannesh, I think knowing if it's allowed or if it's now banned would be something of importance to put in an errata or FAQ.

And Brets, Dwarfs, DoW, Ogre Kingdoms and Wood Elves are the only armies right now that can't take a chariot of some type. I wouldn't call that most armies

chivalrous
04-12-2007, 23:07
As has been said before, it entirely depends on what your consider official to be.

Some only consider army books, the rule book and FAQ's to be official, some consider everything that has ever been printed to be official.
Frankly if it's not in your army book, an FAQ or a rulebook I consider it only good manners to consult your opponent about whether or not it's okay taking items from other sources.

I rarely leave home without the Draich of Dark Power, but as a SoC item, it's not an army book item, so I make sure the opponent is happy BEFORE any dice are rolled.

Shank
04-12-2007, 23:16
I don't think you did anything wrong. It is not your fault that for some reason GW cannot be clear on these things. Seems to me they could have a meeting one night at a bar (or pub, depending on what country you are in) and get all this Storm of C, Albion, Dogs of War cleared up.
But that said. Albion items were made for 6th edition armies. Right now I am getting ready for a league and one of the house rules is Albion items are allowed if your army has not recieved a updated book yet. Which does seem proper. Heck, why don't I just go back to my 6th edition Empire book and grab the Griffon standard? It is only 50 points there! See what I mean....

eagletsi1
05-12-2007, 12:22
Ok but then there is a double standard. For instance in the 6th edition they had rules about character joining units. Which by the way everyone seems to use. I had a high Elf mage on Horse join a unit of spearmen and everyone starting complaining saying I wouldn't get 3 ranks because the front rank is technically larger then the rest (1 25mm base and 4 20mm bases) and in the BRB it says all ranks must be the same size. Most tournament organizers I know have said "Default back to the 6th edition FAQ" which say's you can do it." This is a double standard IMO.

eagletsi1

Count Zero
05-12-2007, 13:27
at the moment i would allow 6th ed armies to use soc/albion items but not 7th. if GW wanted the items to be used they would have included them in the books. Will have to see what they do with the DE items, most agree the selection in the book are poor and expect to see some of the SoC/Albion items included. i dont know if the HE items are good items nor not generally.