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Kahadras
17-09-2005, 00:59
Necromancer + extra level and dispell scroll = 125p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Necromancer + extra level and dispell scroll = 125p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Vampire Thrall + nightmare, heavy armour and shield = 98p
+ 5 Black Knights + FC = 155p

6 Dire Wolves = 60p

1 Bat swarm = 60p

1 Banshee = 90p

casting dice = 6
dispell dice = 4

total = 999p

Basicaly this is a basic starting army idea that can be expanded upon at a later date. Being undead and therefore relying on magic I have placed two Necromancers into the army and they will hopefully provide the support that I need. For close combat I have chosen a unit of Black Knights along with a Thrall to give them a real punch when they charge. Lastly I chose three suporting units. These are the wolves, the bats and the banshee. These guys will get the odd jobs such as march blocking, war machine hunting, holding up flanking maneuvers etc etc. So any thoughts? tactics? Any help would be apreciated.

Kahadras

Ganymede
17-09-2005, 01:29
You don't need 4 levels of magic at this point level; I would drop one wizard etirely, give him a bound item and a dispell scroll, and include a necrarch thrall with noble blood. If you are dead set to have three characters, I would throw in a wraith or a wight.

Kahadras
17-09-2005, 11:31
I was more dead set on being able to dominate the magic phase. If I only take one Necromancer I am relying on my opponant to have less magic support. One level one wizard with a couple of dispell scrolls will ruin my day. By taking 2 Necromancers I can fairly assume that I will dominate the magic phase against most armies (something I need to do) I may drop one of the dispell scrolls from my wizards as I can generate as many dispel dice as my opponant gets power dice. I am not to keen on the Necrarch (I don't particularly like the backgroud of the bloodline) but I can see the advantage in taking him over the thrall that I have at the present moment.
So what do other people think? Should I cut back on my characters and go for more units? What about the units that I already have? Keep the comments comming please.

Kahadras

Tormentor of Slaanesh
17-09-2005, 11:36
cheese!!!!!!
you have no "proper units"
you need at least some skellies.

Kahadras
17-09-2005, 12:24
cheese!!!!!!

How so?


you have no "proper units"

What exactly are proper units? I have two units of skeletons if thats what you are talking about plus the Black knights. As far as I can see the army is fairly reasonable so if you could expand on your post it would be most helpful rather than just posting one line points but backing them up as well. A good example would be...

You have no "proper units" as I don't view units of 16 to be of a sufficent size to call them a full strength unit. What I would do is this...

This helps everybody. It helps me see what is wrong with my army and helps me fix it. It also prevents you from looking like someone who is either spamming or has no idea what he is talking about and is just flaming/trolling.

Kahadras

Scythe
17-09-2005, 13:30
I'd free up some points to get the Book of Arkhan, and an even more dominating magic phase. Magic is difficult enough to get working in small games, and you'll need all the help you can get. Also, with your 4 dispel dice, do you really need 2 scrolls? The black knight unit is rather small, and so quite vulnerable. Adding a single knight may help out.

Drop the bat swarm. They never seem to do anything really usefull to justify their huge pts investment. Instead, use those 60 pts to buy 3 fell bats, and you have some cheap but effective war machine and mage hunters. The Banshee is a gamble, even more in small pts battles. It might pay off, but remember it's almost or entirely useless against several opponents.

Ganymede
17-09-2005, 16:46
I can't stress this enough; remember the type of game you are playing.

You are playing a 1000 point list. Often, you will not even come across a fully loaded scroll caddy at this level. You need to make your list an army and not just some characters and their entourage. three levels of magic +bound spell is still quite potent, and is not taking up 40% of your army.

nurgle_boy
17-09-2005, 19:30
6 magic levels is a bit too much.

most only take one lvl1 or lvl2 , 2 lvl2's if they want to own the magic phase.

with a power familiar, and a bound spell, youll own the magic phase no matter what!
book of arxhon (heh, see what i did there wastoids :p)
the staff of BLAMnation
a power familiar.

actually, you could probebly drop the thrall, and skele unit size down, and take another necro, and the magic gear!

I TAKE BACK MY COMMENT ON 2 LVL2'S, GO WITH 3!

ack, stupid cap locks...
eh, it just looks like im emphasising the point :D

doesnt it?

Kahadras
18-09-2005, 02:41
Reading some of the comments above I decided to rejig the army slightly.

Necromancer + extra level = 100p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Necromancer + extra level = 100p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Thrall + nightmare, heavy armour and shield = 98p
+ 5 Black Knights + FC = 155p

6 Dire wolves = 60p

6 Dire wolves = 60p

So I have about 140 points left to spend. So what do people think I shoul;d spend the extra points on?

Kahadras

nurgle_boy
18-09-2005, 11:28
maybe a banshee.

against low LD they kick living ass!

Scythe
18-09-2005, 13:03
I can't stress this enough; remember the type of game you are playing.

You are playing a 1000 point list. Often, you will not even come across a fully loaded scroll caddy at this level. You need to make your list an army and not just some characters and their entourage. three levels of magic +bound spell is still quite potent, and is not taking up 40% of your army.

He has 4 levels of magic currently, which is not over the top for a vampire counts army. A single lvl 2 wizard is not going to make any impression at all. Due the standard 2 dispel dice the opponent gets, its simply not going to work. If you want to be able to cast some spells reliably sure, get 2 wizards, as he currently has. 6 power dice is usually enough for 2 spells cast, of which one can be dispelled.

Nurgle_boy, you realise the Thrall is not a wizard, right?

In general, as comment on the new list, it looks good. I'd add some units who give some character to the force, and not make it yet anoder sample VC army. I'd go for some fell bats to give you some cheap and reliable fast war machine and mage hunters. However. a Banshee can be effective against some armies, and 2 stands of spirits can also be quite potent in such a low game were a lot of units don't have full rank bonus. Finally, Ghouls are a great bargain, and give you some additional tactical flexibility.

Angelripper
18-09-2005, 13:35
I don't play undead any more (used to be Tomb King) but I face VC quite regular. Magic is the key for VC so I don't think your Magic is overpowered.
I would field one more unit Skellies or Zombies.
given zombies are a bit brainless :D but porper used very anoying and cheap as hell.

Kahadras
19-09-2005, 00:41
A unit of zombies may be a good idea but I am not sure about cost to usefulness. I don't have any characters free to lead them and although they might be a good option to pin down a dangerous enemy unit for a couple of turns I can see it being taken out quite easily and offering up easy victory points for my opponant. Even making it an effective unit by casting spells on it will drain the focus away from my other three units which will need magic support as well.
How many large units do other people run in 1000 points? If it is feasable to run with 4 large units while being able to adequatly support them all then I will concider getting a large unit of zombies (20+) and running them as a stalling unit. Any other ideas?

Kahadras

User Name
20-09-2005, 05:47
bound van heells book and some spirit hosts, those things work wonders aganst monsters and knights.

Alco Engineer
20-09-2005, 07:45
Similar to what I usually take.
Necromancer + extra level = 100p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Necromancer + extra level = 100p
+ 15 Skeletons + FC = 145p

Thrall + nightmare, heavy armour and shield = 98p (what about a lance or GW?)
+ 5 Black Knights + FC = 155p

I normally don't bother with wolves in smaller games as they can get owned by a lot (I had a unit wiped out by a unit of huntsmen!) I don't take 2. I usually take a banshee or more zombies (just take the min and full command and add to it later) generally I end up with 1 unit that doesn't do much but the thrall with a GW and the knights to back him up can win a game for you. they're great.

I usually take the staff and the book and maybe a power stone or a dispell scroll depending on who I'm fighting.

Necrach Thralls suck. I've tried a couple of times and they are just a point sink compared with a necromancer. and they can only use 2 dice at a time. I'd rather use 3 to cast most spells. make sure they pull off.

I sometimes take spirit hosts too but not against skaven. they get smashed to pieces by all of that warpstone.

Scythe
20-09-2005, 07:59
A side note: what bloodline do you use? Blood Dragons or Von Carsteins (as the other ones can't have armour)? Pure statistically speaking, the blood dragon might be better due his bonus +2WS. You always have to challenge tough.