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View Full Version : How do you feel about Ghetto-style conversions?



cuda1179
05-12-2007, 20:00
I think we have all seen these before. Someone wants to save a buck, or wants to try their hand at scratch building so they convert some model. it might come out looking great, or terrible.

Have you ever seen someone look at one and just say, "why didn't you just get the real one?" How do you feel about playing against non-official models? Do you mind if a predator is just a rhino hull with a platicard turret? Do you mind if a baneblade is just made from card and old White Dwarf plans?

Rahveel
05-12-2007, 20:03
so long as it is WYSIWYG, then im fine with it.

lord_blackfang
05-12-2007, 20:04
I don't care how much it cost. I care about how it looks and how much effort was put into it.

A local gamer is building a bunch of Baneblades out of plasticard that you'd have trouble distinguishing from the real thing. The guy had to make over 500 rivets per tank. Who cares if he spent less than 1/10 the cost?

twj
05-12-2007, 20:05
I don't mind as long as some effort has gone into it and it looks vaguely recognisable (painted preferably...). Predator made from Rhino and plasticard turret I would accept, a coke can representing a predator I wouldn't...

bdo
05-12-2007, 20:05
as long as love is poured into the model, and the person who made it sees the point in getting closer and closer to the original (or one of its variants :) ) itīs okay... if, letīs say someone popped a small cardboard, with no details but an imperial eagle laid onto it, lascannons glued to the side iīd let it slide. but only after hearing out if the person fielding this abomination will work more on it... and not just keep it gross.

if the answer would be "but that is my landraider, itīs finished and i think it looks good".. no...

however, it differs from case to case, and donīt forget that people perceive things different... especially in what looks good (eldar, yuck).

my 2 gramms of meat

EVIL INC
05-12-2007, 20:06
A local gamer is building a bunch of Baneblades out of plasticard that you'd have trouble distinguishing from the real thing. The guy had to make over 500 rivets per tank. Who cares if he spent less than 1/10 the cost?

LOL, where is he/she located. I'm sure they could sell them so long as they make it clear they are what they are rather then GW produced ones and make some cash if they are doing that well at making them.

darkknight
05-12-2007, 20:09
first off. creativity is part of the game. its a big part. so i say thumbs up to anyone that wants to try a conversion. we are not all gods of green stuff and plasticard so if it comes out lookin a little funky, well thats ok with me. thumbs up for the effort.
secondly... this is a very expensive hobby and we cant all afford to just shop till we drop to build exactly the army we want. good armies cost hundreads of dollars, minimum.
i play against carboard and masking tape titans, rhinos made of foam core and people whose armies are 1/10th painted. the whole idea is weather or not its fun. fun and creativity are the name of the game not how much money you spent or weather or not your a god like painter who has 1000's of hours of free time. its fun. so i say play with what you got and as long as everyone knows that the plasticard turet represents the predator then its all good. play for fun. now in a tournament i would say that masking tape and cardboard are probably not allowable, but thats a whole nother story.

Cosmocrat
05-12-2007, 20:14
I don't like them. Part of the cost of playing the game is that crap is expensive. I don't want to spend 1000s of dollars on an army, paint it up, only to play against an army that was made out of cereal boxes.

Although, having said that, a guy in my gaming group did make a really cool Warhammer giant spider out of a tennis ball and some plastic legs.

L192837465
05-12-2007, 20:18
i'd say as long as creativity and effort was involved, i'm game. hell, i've had games where i used a single serving cereal box as a land raider. it works.

Temprus
05-12-2007, 20:21
Just remember, the first "official" 40k vehicle was made from an old deodorant container. :D

jfrazell
05-12-2007, 20:44
first off. creativity is part of the game. its a big part. so i say thumbs up to anyone that wants to try a conversion. we are not all gods of green stuff and plasticard so if it comes out lookin a little funky, well thats ok with me. thumbs up for the effort.
secondly... this is a very expensive hobby and we cant all afford to just shop till we drop to build exactly the army we want. good armies cost hundreads of dollars, minimum.
i play against carboard and masking tape titans, rhinos made of foam core and people whose armies are 1/10th painted. the whole idea is weather or not its fun. fun and creativity are the name of the game not how much money you spent or weather or not your a god like painter who has 1000's of hours of free time. its fun. so i say play with what you got and as long as everyone knows that the plasticard turet represents the predator then its all good. play for fun. now in a tournament i would say that masking tape and cardboard are probably not allowable, but thats a whole nother story.

Here here. What has been lost as there are few who remember it, is that this game started with deodorant tubes and soap boxes.

Edit I see Temprus beat me to the deodorant allusion. ALL HAIL CLEAN SMELLING HOME MADE HOVER TANKS!!!

FruitSmack!
05-12-2007, 20:55
I only care if they're trying to force through soda-bottle dreads and shoebox baneblades. I agree that creativity is part of the game and that scratch building is a valid part of the hobby. In fact, not only do I do such things, but I wish more people would scratch build and convert. It grows the hobby (any wargame) by doing so and is frankly, really cool.

That being said, I disagree with being so open to it that common household trash is allowed on the table in the name of fun.

aaron

jfrazell
05-12-2007, 20:57
That being said, I disagree with being so open to it that common household trash is allowed on the table in the name of fun.

aaron

Who's been showing you pictures of my armies again ;)

Aurellis
05-12-2007, 21:05
I don't mind ghetto-style conversions aslong as you can tell what its supposed to be... its that simple. No one wants to play against a Leman Russ that looks more like a toaster than a tank

Alessander
05-12-2007, 21:14
A lot of vehicles were original scratch-built plans from White Dwarf. I have plans for the original vindicator, and a lot of people will recognize the "spoon turret" Wave Serpent when codex CWE first came out. Adding a toy missile launcher turret to a Rhino to make it a Whirlwind is OK too.

Lots of people use toy trucks for Ork Trucks and/or wagons, and it's appropriate. As long as it looks like it fits the part, I'm OK with it.

MuttMan
05-12-2007, 21:15
I like to be cheap damn it. I have no troubles playing a army-man IG force with GI-Joes acting as sentinels and Gundam Titans. Seriously...

My personal standard for my guys arent like that though, so dont get the wrong idea. If I havent spent 8+ hours on a model, it never touches the table top until I've spent 8+ hours on it. Be it a converted 3+ baneblades that looks like a Apocalypse Tank(From Red Alert: Yuri's Revenge game) or a Mammouth Tank from Command and Conquor. To the simplest of guardsmen that has 20 visible tatoos I had to draw on with a sharp pencil and brush-coat with hardwood floor sealer. I need a girlfriend!

tangerinealtoid
05-12-2007, 21:43
Your subject tag is misleading. I was hoping to find a thread about low-rider rhinos and a big-pimpin' inquisitor and his posse of ho' sistas of battle.

Mott
05-12-2007, 21:52
As long as it resembles whatever it counts as, or looks to fulfill the same roles... yeah sure

a 50% scratch built, but fully painted army is better than

a 100% GW issue, but barely painted force.


And empty bases as proxi's makes me run mad!

Micro
05-12-2007, 22:08
well, getting the most of your heavy weapon box is common practice. Additionaly, I bought 2 armoured fist boxes and converted the two chims into hellhounds. Also, I used several plasmapistols (leftovers from my marines) to convert plasmaguns and converted some flamers into melter (its easy and looks good). I also converted 2 russ into demolishers. I also converted rough riders by using brettonian horses and green stuff. I am really satisfied with the results, it makes my army kinda unique and saved me 70+ bucks.

Grand Warlord
05-12-2007, 22:14
It really wouldn't bother me too much to play against.

but since I suck at modelling I doubt I would ever attempt it ... especially something is shiny as a baneblade :)

scopedog91
05-12-2007, 22:45
Ghetto is the way I started, and we have a local "lender" army made from some old SPace Ranger figures, and old WW2 tanks for generic vehicles, as a tester for novice players.
It is how we all start out, until the money gets spent on the army that you decide on.
Testers and proxies work alright, some conversions add spirit and indivduality to the game. Pitstick hover tanks are a great idea to start, and is how GW got the ball rolling for all of us in the first place.
Some local people have incredible skill, and two of the Guard players have done great conversions for Hellhound and Bassie models.
I am all for the Ghetto approach, but would really love to see some chopped and channeled lowrider Rhinos...

Imperialis_Dominatus
05-12-2007, 22:45
Your subject tag is misleading. I was hoping to find a thread about low-rider rhinos and a big-pimpin' inquisitor and his posse of ho' sistas of battle.

Me too... was thinking of Calgar in his pimp-suit.

Voleron
05-12-2007, 22:50
Me too... was thinking of Calgar in his pimp-suit.

It brought to mind my brother's Ork trukks made from '60s Cadilac and Corvette models...

Bregalad
05-12-2007, 23:19
Meh, I also thought this thread is about something like this:
http://www.fortressfigures.com/media/galleries/chrissmith/thugz/index.html
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/SV/6/index.asp
http://www.homiesworld.com/characters/ ;)

Ravenheart
06-12-2007, 00:04
I'm ok with it as long as there is a decent amout of effort involved, no matter how it looks.

If it's just a half arsed attempt to save money, I'd certainly would not approve of it.

Wraithbored
06-12-2007, 00:10
Personally I love scarcthbuilt stuff and don't mind it at all(in fact see blackfang's post about a local player churning out superb home made baneblades! they are really a sight to behold!), well with ONE possible exception:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/Wraithbored/1190728231726failhorse.jpg

:D

Voleron
06-12-2007, 00:25
Heheheh, Rending Pony. Mmmmm, Nightmares...



I'll pass things on a case-by-case basis. Usually effort is the main thing. Actual skill is secondary to someone having a go at a decent scratch/conversion. To me, at least.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
06-12-2007, 00:35
I don't mind ghetto-style conversions aslong as you can tell what its supposed to be... its that simple. No one wants to play against a Leman Russ that looks more like a toaster than a tank

*buzzer* Wrong. I do.

I'm about playing Warhammer because it is fun. If one of my friends is broke, then he can play with what he has. I'm sure some of you dyed-in-the-wool WYSIWYG-ers would blanch to see two of my friend's armies, which are mostly composed of empty bases while the figures are being built or waiting to be purchased. If you want tournament quality, go to a tournament or help the guy who needs help doing his stuff. Or just leave them alone. Crawl down off of your ivory tower and realize that it's a game and you're suppsoed to have fun. Some people have fun spending unGodly amounts of money on miniatures. Some people have fun meticulously painting a mini here or there. And some people just like playing the game. It takes all kinds.

Wraithbored
06-12-2007, 00:38
Heheheh, Rending Pony. Mmmmm, Nightmares...

Acctually it's been dubbed as the "Failhorse".:D


*buzzer* Wrong. I do.

I'm about playing Warhammer because it is fun. If one of my friends is broke, then he can play with what he has. I'm sure some of you dyed-in-the-wool WYSIWYG-ers would blanch to see two of my friend's armies, which are mostly composed of empty bases while the figures are being built or waiting to be purchased. If you want tournament quality, go to a tournament or help the guy who needs help doing his stuff. Or just leave them alone. Crawl down off of your ivory tower and realize that it's a game and you're suppsoed to have fun. Some people have fun spending unGodly amounts of money on miniatures. Some people have fun meticulously painting a mini here or there. And some people just like playing the game. It takes all kinds.Couldn't agree more, some people just can't afford the minis, but do like my gaming group did when it was necesary. When said person has their b-day everyone pitches in and buys them ungodly ammounts of minis(to be built converted or traded at the owners conveniece).;)

MrBigMr
06-12-2007, 00:42
Cheap ass models?
Here's something my friends have made:
-WHFB Giant from a He-man toy.
-WHFB Slann Mage-Priest from a little turtles figure and He-man battle cat's head (as a decoration on the palanguin).
-WHFB Ogres from toy vikings.
-WHFB Stegadon from a toy dinosaur and popsickle sticks.
-40K Predator from a plastic toy tank, some guns and a marine tank hatch.
-40K Marines from space crusade models.
-40K Wraithguard from a pile of bits from space crusade to all sorts of stuff.

That's so far what I remember.

I'm not so much a "do it yourself" than "that looks and it's cheap" kinda guy. I'm not very good in scratch building, but I can deal with conversions.

Bretonnian Lord
06-12-2007, 00:42
I don't really care. Personally, I prefer buying "official" Games-Workshop models for my armies but if my opponent doesn't it's not a big deal. I'll still play them :)

Wraithbored
06-12-2007, 00:45
Here's something my friends have made:
-WHFB Giant from a He-man toy.
-WHFB Slann Mage-Priest from a little turtles figure and He-man battle cat's head (as a decoration on the palanguin).
-WHFB Ogres from toy vikings.
-WHFB Stegadon from a toy dinosaur and popsickle sticks.
-40K Predator from a plastic toy tank, some guns and a marine tank hatch.
-40K Marines from space crusade models.
-40K Wraithguard from a pile of bits from space crusade to all sorts of stuff.

Pix please :)

Swiftsword Bonaparte
06-12-2007, 00:54
Although, having said that, a guy in my gaming group did make a really cool Warhammer giant spider out of a tennis ball and some plastic legs.

That sounds like the mechanical spider from Johnny Quest! But for my gaming preferences, I share the sentiments of most of you, that the main concern is that effort and creativity was put into creating the object. Actually, I'm the guy in my group who does the custom creating! But most of them actually come out rather well, at least in my opinion. I'll try to eventually post photos of my favorite ones.

Imperialis_Dominatus
06-12-2007, 01:55
Personally I love scarcthbuilt stuff and don't mind it at all(in fact see blackfang's post about a local player churning out superb home made baneblades! they are really a sight to behold!), well with ONE possible exception:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/Wraithbored/1190728231726failhorse.jpg

:D

Not this **** again. *palm---->forehead*

**** ****ity **** **** ****!

Jack Sparrow is not amused.:wtf:

Wraithbored
06-12-2007, 02:00
Not this **** again. *palm---->forehead*

**** ****ity **** **** ****!

Jack Sparrow is not amused.:wtf:
Just as planned...

Champsguy
06-12-2007, 02:01
My buddy keeps saying he's gonna add a unit of "Black Orks" to his army. :)

ehlijen
06-12-2007, 02:53
That pony needs to die! And I don't mean the fact that it looks mostly dead already!

As for building stuff: Not everyone is a master converter. But if you want to build something, or have to to afford it, please make it look as if there was effort involved. I'm not going to refuse a game or anything, I'm just going to enjoy it less if I face nothing but household items when using actual models myself. Remeber: both players have the responsibility to make it fun for both players. Don't insult a player by making his hobby efforts face shoeboxes. If you want to use cardboard stand ups, fine. Just paint someting aproximating the model being represented on it.

And if you don't think you can build good stuff: a good paint job can excuse a lot of things.

There is nothing wrong with proxying things with whatever you find, but it is not the common way to do things. In pickup games or gaming clubs that don't state otherwise, don't use garbage.

cuda1179
06-12-2007, 03:04
Some of the better conversions I have seen have been cheap. I have seen a mechanised Ork force where all the vehicles were converted from cheap things and 40k bits.
Army-man tanks (about $1 at Wal-mart) make great Ork trucks after removing the turret, adding a "truck bed" and driver seat, and putting a plasticard side skirt on to obscure the toy-like treads. Other than the 40k bits I think you can make those for about $2.

Kveld-Ulf
06-12-2007, 03:34
Just remember, the first "official" 40k vehicle was made from an old deodorant container. :D

I still have a hard time believing that, as nowhere near most 40k players is there deodorant to be found.

Maybe they were at a loss for the use of the deodorant container, and decided it would be better as a tank than a "whatchamacallit". And why is whatchamacallit it considered a word? I expected it to get the red line of misspelling..

Champsguy
06-12-2007, 03:56
I still have a hard time believing that, as nowhere near most 40k players is there deodorant to be found.

Maybe they were at a loss for the use of the deodorant container, and decided it would be better as a tank than a "whatchamacallit". And why is whatchamacallit it considered a word? I expected it to get the red line of misspelling..

Heh.

40K player #1: "What... is this?"
40K player #2: "Looks like... looks like a tank to me."
40K player #1: "...Smells funny to me."
40K player #2: "Well, for god's sake, don't get any on you. Let's spray paint this bitch and add on some bits."

ctsteel
06-12-2007, 05:53
the pimp-ghetto image came to me too on seeing this thread.

and now I've got images of land raiders and rhinos with hydraulic suspension bouncing up and down on the table, while a subwoofer under the board blares out gansta tunes so loud the terrain shakes.

Gannon
06-12-2007, 06:07
Hey I have 6 converted drop pods that I made from the Hexagon Platformer Set but they have storm bolters on top and have been made to look similar. To me Coke and Coffee cans to represent Rhinos and Monoliths (which I've seen done) is a total no go, but anything that a little effort (2 hours or more) has been put into is more than fine by me. And you can tell what it is of course.

Hexagon Platformer Set (great for Necromunda too)
http://www.thewarstore.com/IMEXPlatformerHexagon.html

Brother Loki
06-12-2007, 10:07
I love creative conversions, and don't care what they cost. I also don't mind playing against coffee cups, bits of paper with 'ork boy' written on them, empty bases or whatever.

@Gannon - could you post a pic of your drop-pods please? I might very well take the same approach. How many pods can you make from a set, or is it more than one set per pod?

srg.cutter
06-12-2007, 10:34
i am a firm believer in conversions and i think if gw wanted us to use onty their ready made ones the codex's would have photos rather than illustrations. having said that i always insist on wysiwyg. for instance a bolter is a bolter not a melta gun

fengor
06-12-2007, 10:46
well i play for several years now and i guess my army would fall very well into the ghetto category.

I started somewhere in the 90's in the days of the 2nd edition with eldar and haven't managed yet to finish even 1 squad.

This is because i suck at painting and converting and most models i started painting at one point seen the stripping bath quite often because i'm not satisfied with how they came out. And it would help if i could stick to one painting project at a time.

that being said i do make progress. My guardians are on the brink of getting ready this time. Primed, painted with 3 different colors, just inking and sealing needed. But most of my time recently has gone in converting a warlock to a jetbike warlock. I even was kinda happy how it turned out. Guess i shouldnt have been. i tripped last saturday and it fell and went to pieces. Well i guess i can glue it again as soon as i got new glue. When i'm done with it i'll post a pic in the modeling section. although i still have to do robes on one arm and the legs with green stuff.

silashand
06-12-2007, 11:07
I don't mind so much, but I have to say some of them look downright silly. There's a local Ork player who has a squiggoth made out of a Lost World Tyranosaurus. I wouldn't mind so much, but it's the animatronic kind that when you push a button it moves its head and makes silly dinosaur noises. Also, because it's obviously a toy the scale is way off. Finally, to top it off, the only conversion he did with it was to glue a couple orky glyphs on the side and make an (unpainted) cardboard howda on top of it to stick a few orks. Sorry if I think that's pushing it a bit far.

Note that I think the conversion *could* have been better had the player spent more time and effort to get the look to fit within 40K, but as it stands he did very little and I personally think the toy styling thing detracts from the game's imagery. I'm really surprised the GW staff let him use it in the store since it's a non-GW model, but since the only actual model is FW, I guess conversions of any kind are allowed. Oh well. At least it is a monster of sorts and not a coke bottle. And it's green, so it is kinda orky. I just know I wouldn't ever use something like it in any of my armies, but that's me. Others are free to do as they please. All I ask is what I'm playing against be vaguely recognizable as what it's supposed to represent.

Cheers, Gary

Burning Star IV
06-12-2007, 11:32
Heh.

40K player #1: "What... is this?"
40K player #2: "Looks like... looks like a tank to me."
40K player #1: "...Smells funny to me."
40K player #2: "Well, for god's sake, don't get any on you. Let's spray paint this bitch and add on some bits."

Very good. Thank you for that.

Anyway, the aspect of warhammer that first appealed to me was the quality of the models. The most important part of most games I play (for me, anyway) are the aesthetics of the armies/ battlefield. When I deploy a very respectable looking force in my very respectable looking cities of death terrain, I don't like the effect being ruined by a bunch of dark angels looking like they were painted with the cheapest spray cans available at the local wal-mart and a......"predator" which very well may have came from any given line of[I]action figures[I] which were convenient for purchase at the time.

"I have two thousand points of guys! And it only cost $17!"
"Ahem....well....it certainly looks that way."

If I wanted to play with toys, I wouldn't have given away my G.I. Joes. As it is, I enjoy the hobby....preferably in it's non- bastardized form.

Misanthrope
06-12-2007, 12:02
Yeah, I don't especially like when models have various "conversions" bashed onto them. I enjoy clean, moderately-well painted guys.

ChaosMaster
06-12-2007, 12:25
I once saw an Ogre Kingdoms army with an arboreal theme. The "counts as" ogres were made from bits of stuck together tree branches. Interesting concept but it looked like utter dung.

The models and aesthetics are the best part of the hobby to me, so when I see a scratch-build or extreme conversion, it's nice if it has some quality to it. The Rogue Trader deodorant bottle vehicly looked pretty cool even by today's standards compared to some of the no-effort conversions or "counts as" things one occasionally sees at the store. Unfortunately, in a hobby that is so open with creativity, there will be some truly terrible looking conversions around. It's an inevitable side-effect of a hobby that allows for wildly imaginative creations. Fortunately, most of the time, this open creativity results in things that are pleasing, inspiring and enjoyable to see. When you see something truly terrible, at least it's good for a laugh.

cuda1179
06-12-2007, 13:45
I do feel you pain about models that can ruin your experience. During a megaballte a couple years ago (right after the Marines codex came out) a guy brought about a dozen soda cans spray painted black (and not even coated well). They were supposed to be drop pods. Well, with about 16 people there we had two options: Grit out teeth and allow it, or force the entire other side to rethink it's strategy.

ChaosMaster
06-12-2007, 13:51
I do feel you pain about models that can ruin your experience. During a megaballte a couple years ago (right after the Marines codex came out) a guy brought about a dozen soda cans spray painted black (and not even coated well). They were supposed to be drop pods. Well, with about 16 people there we had two options: Grit out teeth and allow it, or force the entire other side to rethink it's strategy.
I recently saw plastic water bottles being used as Drop Pods at a game in a Battle Bunker and they were not disguised or converted in any way. The person using them also had a bottle of water for drinking that was identical to the "Drop Pods". I believe one of the employees at the store joked about it directly by asking the owner about the bottle from which he was drinking and asking whether or not it was a model or a drink or something to that effect.

FruitSmack!
06-12-2007, 14:14
Who's been showing you pictures of my armies again ;)

You best have three colors on that common household trash, Mister! :p

aaron

TheOverlord
06-12-2007, 14:17
As long as it looks good, I really don't care.

Actually, it doesn't even have to look good. You just have to pour your heart and soul into it, and be don't be a snide over it. If I look at it, and I say it's nice/ok, I don't need to hear a tirade of your damn models for the next 2 hours gushing over whatever the hell you did to make it or how well you bloody think it is. That lowers my perception of the model, devaluing it in my eyes. So from an ok model it is now a piece of crap simply because you keep pestering me about how good you think it is. And for the love of God if your converting skills are only so-so, you don't have to proclaim loudly to the world the tips and tricks that you've learnt on how to make your model look worse than it's original form.

Humility is worth it's weight in gold, gentlemen, please hoard as much of it as possible. (this comes from personal experience, so forgive me if I seem bitter)

can't_decide
17-12-2007, 00:17
Keep in mind this game is all about creativity. I would like to see the army that uses absolutely no creativity, just copies what is in the codex, and hasn't even swapped a single weapon anywhere. As far as the gaming side of the hobby you have to have some self esteem issues if you're worried about facing some pop cans. Just because a guy can't afford all the models all at once doesn't mean he can't out think you.

Hellebore
17-12-2007, 00:26
I go for whatever I think looks good. If the original model does, then I'll get it.

If I think of a conversion that will look really cool, I'll do that, and very rarely do the conversions end up cheaper than buying the original.

Stifling creativity is one of the biggest crimes I can think of, everyone no matter their skill should be allowed to explore their own ideas and themes and be congratulated on their effort.

Hellebore

Marius Xerxes
17-12-2007, 00:33
When I was at the 2001 Chicago GT there was a player there who had a Star Wars IG army. His Setinals were AT-ST's and he had Mini Tie Fighters represenative of something or other. Cant quite remember considering it was an IG army. All his troops looked like Storm Troopers as well. It was a neat thing to do but in some cases, as much of a Star wars fan as I am.. I found it distracting. I didnt even play against the guy. But lots of time and thought put into it and you have to give points for that one.

I think overall it depends ont he "forum" your playing in. Friendly basement games with friends I allow pretty much anything cause im there to have fun with friends and just play. In a tourny however.. if I have to ask 3 times what something is cause its not represenative enough to remember, thats a problem. Really dosnet matter how cool or how much time was spent at that point, for me.

Captain Micha
17-12-2007, 00:34
Ghetto style conversions? like using illicit drugs for models? (sorry couldn't resist the joke there. You knew it was coming, admit it)

I don't mind home made models really, providing it is pointed out to me what something is. Much like is expected of me with my "vespid" and "kroot"

ehlijen
17-12-2007, 00:53
As Hellebore said, effort should be recognised and, if applicable, rewarded. To me that means not putting untouched trash on the table.

Converting is fun, and even for models that have official versions; it's a good way to add a personal touch to the army. Or if you think you can build something that looks good for less (or if you want to try to see if you can), that's great too.

But if someone puts something akin to the mentioned raw soda bottle drop pods on the table when facing actual models, he is basically saying "Haha, I made my army from trash and it works just as well as the one you paid money for!". Which is not far from: "Haha, our armies are of equal quality!"
I don't like having my models likened to household trash, nor do I suspect do many people.

Orbital
17-12-2007, 01:15
I think we have all seen these before. Someone wants to save a buck, or wants to try their hand at scratch building so they convert some model. it might come out looking great, or terrible.

Have you ever seen someone look at one and just say, "why didn't you just get the real one?" How do you feel about playing against non-official models? Do you mind if a predator is just a rhino hull with a platicard turret? Do you mind if a baneblade is just made from card and old White Dwarf plans?
This is a tough one for me. I'm staunchly against any philosophy which makes it sound like anyone but you should get to decide what goes into your army and how it should be build/painted/whatever. Nothing bothers me more then when someone thinks that my army is subject to committee approval. I bought it, I built it, I painted it, and aside from some community activities where standards get set by the organizers, I'm not concerned about whether or not I'm making the masses happy. I remember getting a lot of grief when I did my first Eldar army because it had gold painted onto it and people told me "Eldar wouldn't use gold. They use Wraithbone. That's wrong. You're doing it wrong", to which I thought "even a major corporation which can shape world affairs requires you to actually pay for some stock before you can start lipping off about what they're doing wrong... so unless you want to buy me the models, the paints, and pay me an hourly fee to repaint them to suit your vision of what Eldar should look like, step off". I still feel that way.

That having been said... I believe the sword cuts both ways. Just because you are in love with your army doesn't mean I'm under any obligation to play against you. Personally, I can't think of a situation where I'd refuse to play against someone because of how their army looks... but maybe that's something which ruins the experience for you and you would rather not. You're never under obligation to play against opponents you don't wish to play against (except in a tournament but, if you're there, you already know you're going to be playing against strangers and, hopefully, the organizers have put some rules in place to protect you from anyone who is too much of a slob).

I don't like rushing to slap a "right" or "wrong" label on things if I don't have to and, where hobby-based gaming is concerned, I'd prefer not to do it at all. If his pop-bottle drop pod with chopsticks for antennae makes him happy, who am I to tell him he's not allowed to feel good about it?

dr.oetk3r
17-12-2007, 02:10
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sal/ikea4sale/images/trash_metal_gray.jpg

This counts as a gargant in my games of apocalypse.

fwacho
17-12-2007, 02:29
in th e past I have scratch built a monolith (pretty decent actually) that ook me abuot 8 hours to assemble then paint. I also scrathcnbuilt a lot of orc stuff but go out om y way to insure it is wysiwyg. I consider this the cardinal law of scratch builds.
basically some need to be able to guess what is after a quik glance.

Ward.
17-12-2007, 02:52
I'm sensing "pimped out" gold tooths should be on the rise thanks to the new ork dex, not that they should really need much more pimping.

But yeah, I ghetto convert and let other so it as well, I'll even let them use really crappy poorly thought out ones as long as it's funny. An example is the sprue-a-saurus someone posted a while ago in the fantasy section, it looked stupid but was painted to resemble a skink priest and I'm even laughing right now just thinking of it.

Grand Master Raziel
17-12-2007, 03:11
When I had my Ork army, I made 3 Killa Kans out of old paint pots, extra bitz, and pieces of sprue. None of my opponents complained, so I won't complain about scratch-builds as long as I can tell what they are and what they have.

adreal
17-12-2007, 05:28
I made a treeman out of bark chips, green stuff and spare bits I didn't want to put on my dryads......and it looks mad (atleast to me) proper scale and everything.

So i'de allow people to play what they have built

Brother Siccarius
17-12-2007, 06:21
I started playing 40k at the age of 12. I wasn't one of those kids that got a new forgeworld model every two weeks or anything like that, I ended up converting most of my original Speed Freek army from scratch using bits and pieces of 'trash' here and there. They really didn't look that great seeing them now, but quite a few of the things in the Speed Freek army were only available through Forge World or making it yourself. Honestly, I'm okay with people doing more home-made conversions using bits of things from around the house, so long as they took some time on it.

I remember making a squad of necrons from flying bases because it was cheaper, at one point.

Darnok
17-12-2007, 09:16
I recently saw plastic water bottles being used as Drop Pods at a game in a Battle Bunker and they were not disguised or converted in any way. The person using them also had a bottle of water for drinking that was identical to the "Drop Pods". I believe one of the employees at the store joked about it directly by asking the owner about the bottle from which he was drinking and asking whether or not it was a model or a drink or something to that effect.

It says quite a lot about that store and its employees that they did allow this to happen. I'd simply refuse to play a guy with such "Drop Pods", and if such a practice is acceptable for the store to promote the hobby, than I'd at least start thinking about never setting a foot in that store again.

On the original topic: it strongly depends on the conversion itself. Was some effort put into it? Does it fit the visual style of 40K, or whatever setting it is used for? If both answers are "yes", I suspect it would be okay with me, otherwise probably not. But to be honest, it is a decision often to be made from case to case, not a general one.

BrianC
17-12-2007, 09:43
Agree with the blood, sweat and tears thing.

I'd much rather play somebody who'd clearly spent a lot of time converting and painting even if it didn't look very good than play somebody who'd spent a small fortune paying a pro (with results to match) to do it all for them.

Rick_1138
17-12-2007, 10:06
i am making a scratch build titan warhound (Wolf variant)

I have made a card one to start with to get a feel for the construction process, but am now away to start making a plasticard one with a lot more detail, i.e. hydraulic parts to the feet etc made from very small up to big brass rod etc.

The paper one looks crappy and i would never use it in a game, but the tian i am aiming for should look very presentable and higly detailed when finished.

The question is, do GW allow scratchbuilt stuf, (if good quality) to be used in store?

Sholto
17-12-2007, 11:04
Your subject tag is misleading. I was hoping to find a thread about low-rider rhinos and a big-pimpin' inquisitor and his posse of ho' sistas of battle. Now that is a log I would follow :cool:

Sholto

Brother Siccarius
17-12-2007, 18:47
It says quite a lot about that store and its employees that they did allow this to happen. I'd simply refuse to play a guy with such "Drop Pods", and if such a practice is acceptable for the store to promote the hobby, than I'd at least start thinking about never setting a foot in that store again.

On the original topic: it strongly depends on the conversion itself. Was some effort put into it? Does it fit the visual style of 40K, or whatever setting it is used for? If both answers are "yes", I suspect it would be okay with me, otherwise probably not. But to be honest, it is a decision often to be made from case to case, not a general one.

Hey, they're playing the game. I don't think the Employees are elitest or jerks enough to demand a player remove him/herself from a store for wanting to play with drop pods, without buying the Forge World models.

Part of the game is realizing that there are people out there who want to play the game, but don't have the same means as those who can whip up a scratch model that looks just like the Forge World ones, or who can afford the forge world ones. Sure, it's inexpencive, but some people just 'don't want to', 'can't', or 'don't know how to' do it.

I know enough people who can look at you build something bit by bit or follow a blog and still not be able to repeat it, and that's ok.

Realizing and accepting that there are people out there that don't, can't or wont meet up to standards you personally think the world should follow is not just an important part of playing the game, but an important part of living, period. Standards are a personal thing, you don't make standards for other people to follow because they never will as you're the one who decides what does and doesn't meet them. You make standards for yourself.

Darnok
17-12-2007, 19:34
Come on... water bottles? I don't demand Forge World models for everyone, but it could be a bit more than this... excuse. I just think it is not too much to ask for a bit effort put into what you want to field.

Concerning the store employees: they should pay attention to what happens on their tables. I mean, what impression does it make if possible customers come to the shop, watch in awe those shiny miniatures, and then see some folks play with what? Water bottles?

"Don't want" is no excuse, otherwise you are in the wrong hobby. "Can't" or "don't know how" is an excellent opportunity for the store to do a "how to..."-workshop - it would teach some general skills, improve the gaming experience and generally help both the gamers (new models) and the store (pleased customers).

I would still refuse to play people with water bottle proxies, but not because of a posh attitude but because it differs too much from what I would call a joyful game. Remember, I did not call gamers playing with water bottles complete idiots, I just don't want to play them, because that is probably the best for them and me. :)

Mr Zephy
17-12-2007, 19:43
With drop pod substitutes I at least demand that they cover the right size on the ground for one. (i'm not sure what bottles they were using, but most would be too small)

Cirrus the Blue
17-12-2007, 19:49
I don't mind as long as some effort has gone into it and it looks vaguely recognisable (painted preferably...). Predator made from Rhino and plasticard turret I would accept, a coke can representing a predator I wouldn't...

I know someone who made an Ork Dreadnought out of a paint pot and the corners of plastic sprue one time. It looked absolutely 'dread'ful. :rolleyes:

- Cirrus

Brother Siccarius
17-12-2007, 19:54
I know someone who made an Ork Dreadnought out of a paint pot and the corners of plastic sprue one time. It looked absolutely 'dread'ful. :rolleyes:

- Cirrus

Actually a similar conversion suggestion was offered by several GW employees for "Gaming on the Cheap" back when the GW Forums were still open.

pwrgmrguard
17-12-2007, 21:36
If it looks like a model it's good, drinks are for the kitchen table, not my game table.

Coke stains are not chemical spills.

I made a model out of three halves of other tanks and a lighter, but it looks like a converted real model.

It should look good, and i'd like to play against painted armies, but i don't even have enough time to paint mine fully, so as long as each time i play you, more is painted it's good.

Nephilim of Sin
18-12-2007, 07:04
I know someone who made an Ork Dreadnought out of a paint pot and the corners of plastic sprue one time. It looked absolutely 'dread'ful. :rolleyes:

- Cirrus

I am so going to do that, but make it 'proppa'. Add a few bits, make a few cuts, and I could easily see a nice Dread out of that.

As to the rest, would I play against 'ghetto' conversions? No. Because if you can still completely tell what it originally was (Say, a Coke Can Drop Pod with nothing else added), then it is not really a 'conversion'. I have no problem if said conversion started as a coke can, but then had other details added (which can be done on the cheap). That is fine with me.

For example, I made a Tau Drop Pod (for the rescue mission from the back of the 1st book) out of a Brita Water Filter. I added a slew of bits, and rounded of the 'spout'. There is no way it looks like a water filter. Therefore, I think it is a successful conversion (now, as for the painting, that is another story alltogether :D).