PDA

View Full Version : NG Boss on Cave Squig!



stashman
05-12-2007, 21:43
Come to think of doing something crazy, wich turned out to be good!

A nightgoblin boss on a great cave squig with Guzzla's Battle Brew. Then you only benefit from the good parts. If you get stupidity it doesn't matter becuse you have boiing (3d6" compulsory movment) so who cares. Hatred, yes reroll misses and you have to pursue no matter what and frenzy+hatred. Thats 8 attacks S5 (if you have a spear or atleast a magic weapon) and may reroll 4 of them. Pretty good.

Just add Sneaky Skewer and Spiteful shield and you will probably rack up some casualties with this jumping monster, if you get in combat!

Lucky24/7
05-12-2007, 21:56
Thats a nice idea... I may just have to try that one at 1500 points ... mu ha ha ha :D thanx for the idea

shaso_iceborn
05-12-2007, 22:00
yes I as well like the idea hmmmm very tempting

Unwise
06-12-2007, 03:16
Thats 8 attacks S5 (if you have a spear or atleast a magic weapon) and may reroll 4 of them. Pretty good.

Not being very familiar with the O&G, why are you only rerolling 4 of the attacks? Frenzy and Hatred on a rider should both effect the mount as well wouldn't they? I thought they would both get +1 attack and reroll all misses on the first round.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
06-12-2007, 04:16
Come to think of doing something crazy, wich turned out to be good!

A nightgoblin boss on a great cave squig with Guzzla's Battle Brew. Then you only benefit from the good parts. If you get stupidity it doesn't matter becuse you have boiing (3d6" compulsory movment) so who cares. Hatred, yes reroll misses and you have to pursue no matter what and frenzy+hatred. Thats 8 attacks S5 (if you have a spear or atleast a magic weapon) and may reroll 4 of them. Pretty good.

Just add Sneaky Skewer and Spiteful shield and you will probably rack up some casualties with this jumping monster, if you get in combat!

My God, that is brilliant!! I love using the Night Goblin Big Boss on a Squig because the model is awesome, and now he will be nigh unstoppable! You have just doomed the Chaos, Dwarfen, and Bretonnian players in my gaming group. WAAAAGH!

SevenSins
06-12-2007, 12:43
The really fun part is that a NG boss on great squig can actually be nastier than a kitted out black orc :)

BigbyWolf
06-12-2007, 13:56
...unless it's my T6 wyvern-mounted Black Orc Warboss...
But seriously, the Squig mounted fella is a good idea- i've run him before, he works well in combo with a few large units of squig hoppers and some pump wagons...It's always good to have a greenskin line that constantly heads towards the opponent...even if squigs are highly underpowered compared to the 3rd/4th edition ones, which were without a doubt my second favourite Warhammer unit ever, I mean c'mon, when they hit a unit they automatically attacked and allowed no attacks back, before hopping off again, and if they hit another unit/ model, they attacked again, before bouncing off.
I once took one to a tournament and in one game he landed smack in the middle of a brettonian grail knight unit in full lance formation and complete with wizard and general...some incredibly lucky rolling on the scatter dice and for the distance and he'd landed on the same unit SIX times, killing 5 knights, forcing a panic test, which was failed...and they proptly ran off the table...I laughed so hard I almost wet myself...even my opponent had a wry smile...

Mazdug
06-12-2007, 17:38
I cant remember the name of the item right now but have you considered the item that makes you blow up when you die? I've always wanted to run a boss on a great cave squig with that amulet so that once he finally does lose a combat, he takes everyone around him with him (you can get a lot of models in base to base with a great cave squig).

memitchell747
06-12-2007, 18:38
The rules say Stupidity occurs at the start of the turn, and lasts throughout the turn. Stupidity causes a 3" Compulsary move. I don't think the model can make two Compulsary moves. Since Stupidity occurs first, I believe that would override Boiiing, just as Animosity overrides it.

Of course, this is the Orc book, so who knows for sure?

forthegloryofkazadekrund
06-12-2007, 18:47
Not being very familiar with the O&G, why are you only rerolling 4 of the attacks? Frenzy and Hatred on a rider should both effect the mount as well wouldn't they? I thought they would both get +1 attack and reroll all misses on the first round.

iirc mounts dont suffer from riders frenzy

SevenSins
06-12-2007, 20:02
mounts do get frenzy from their rider, the exception beeing khorne knights who have a specific faq to this effect (as the mount isn't marked).

Zoolander
06-12-2007, 20:11
The rules say Stupidity occurs at the start of the turn, and lasts throughout the turn. Stupidity causes a 3" Compulsary move. I don't think the model can make two Compulsary moves. Since Stupidity occurs first, I believe that would override Boiiing, just as Animosity overrides it.

Of course, this is the Orc book, so who knows for sure?


I'd have to say memitchell is correct on this one. Stupidity happens first. but it was an awesome thought!

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
06-12-2007, 21:34
The rules say Stupidity occurs at the start of the turn, and lasts throughout the turn. Stupidity causes a 3" Compulsary move. I don't think the model can make two Compulsary moves. Since Stupidity occurs first, I believe that would override Boiiing, just as Animosity overrides it.

Of course, this is the Orc book, so who knows for sure?

BUT... the Stupidity affects the RIDER, not the squig. The Night Goblin drinks the potion, so therefore he may be Stupid. Nobody cares about the Night Goblin's movement, we use the squig's movement of 3D6! Well, at elast that's how it seems to me. If the squig doesn't get the Hatred, then he certainly can't get the Stupidity.

blurred
06-12-2007, 23:14
Isn't a squig-mounted night goblin immune to psychology? I always thought so, thus he wouldn't actually suffer from stupidity. :)

stashman
06-12-2007, 23:18
I'd have to say memitchell is correct on this one. Stupidity happens first. but it was an awesome thought!


Okey! Whats is the movement for a "stupid" compulsory mover of 3d6"???

Its overided by boooiiing anyday.

Mazdug
10-12-2007, 21:53
I believe you would roll 3d6, and halve it.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
11-12-2007, 01:06
Why would you halve it? The potion does not give the Great Cave Squig Hatred, so why would it give him Stupidity? The fact is that this is a very nice trick, appropos of goblins and completely legal.

bram kuijpers
11-12-2007, 08:20
im gonna use this one in a 2000 points game tonight he has a sneaky skewerer and light armour and shield (since the rest of the armie costed some points) he is going to be in the first wave that consist of 20 squig hoppers (just 300 points) and i realy hope they do damage (and the enemy are dwarfs so hatred for all).

ill let you guys know what happens.

Mazdug
11-12-2007, 20:55
Why would you halve it? The potion does not give the Great Cave Squig Hatred, so why would it give him Stupidity? The fact is that this is a very nice trick, appropos of goblins and completely legal.

I was under the impression, although I do not have the rulebook with me right now, that in the current edition, all psychology that the rider suffers from is transferred to the mount as well. This means that your mount benefits from frenzy,hatred, immunity to psychology, and suffers from stupidity in the same manner, and at the same time, as the rider, much as they use the riders LD for all test and whatnot as long as he is alive.

Mazdug
11-12-2007, 20:58
he is going to be in the first wave that consist of 20 squig hoppers.

You know that he can't actually join the unit of squig hoppers though right, due to some vile oversight on the part of the writers. So he will have to roll for his movement independently, and will still be targetable by enemy shooting.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
11-12-2007, 21:47
I was under the impression, although I do not have the rulebook with me right now, that in the current edition, all psychology that the rider suffers from is transferred to the mount as well. This means that your mount benefits from frenzy,hatred, immunity to psychology, and suffers from stupidity in the same manner, and at the same time, as the rider, much as they use the riders LD for all test and whatnot as long as he is alive.

Baaaaziiiing! That is a good point, Mazdug. I hadn't thought of that. So both my Night Goblin Big Boss AND his mount get to Hate my buddy's Dwarfs. Excellent point. I had forgotten, and when I read your post I remembered someone saying something about how Savage Boar Boyz are way better now that their mounts have Frenzy, too. Thanks for helping out the discussion. I guess whomever said the movement would be 3D6 divided by 2 was correct, then. Stupidity halves your movement, right? I'm still using him, I love my Night Goblin Big Boss on Squig.

Belerophon709
11-12-2007, 22:18
Remember that it doesn't just halve your movement, it halves your movement and the move must be made directly forward. That means no changing of direction.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
11-12-2007, 22:26
Remember that it doesn't just halve your movement, it halves your movement and the move must be made directly forward. That means no changing of direction.

I'm going to assume that means whatever direction the model is facing...and he can face whatever way he wants at the end of his move. So, to counteract that Stupidity move rolling you somehwere you don't want to be, face your gobbo somewhere safe at the end of his movement phase and then if you fail the Stupidity test, at least he'll move in a safe direction. Otherwise you can just turn him around and charge whichever way you want! WAAAGH!!

truthsayer
11-12-2007, 22:38
You know that he can't actually join the unit of squig hoppers though right, due to some vile oversight on the part of the writers. So he will have to roll for his movement independently, and will still be targetable by enemy shooting.

looks like a vile oversight but it actually isnt, otherwise people would use squig hoppers as a way of just getting quite hard great squigs into combat. i know i would. shame really because i reckon they're not that hard.

Belerophon709
11-12-2007, 22:44
Otherwise you can just turn him around and charge whichever way you want! WAAAGH!!

Actually, you can't. He's not US1, so he has a 90 degree arc of vision and not 360...

Regarding the "safe direction"-thing. You have to take into account that your enemy might take steps to nullify your "safe zone". So it's not all that simple.

Anointed_By_Filth
12-12-2007, 15:40
Actually, you can't. He's not US1, so he has a 90 degree arc of vision and not 360...

Regarding the "safe direction"-thing. You have to take into account that your enemy might take steps to nullify your "safe zone". So it's not all that simple.

Yes sir, you are correct, he has an arc of vision. What you don't know is that he is also unable to declare charges with this specific model. Anything mounted on any form of squig is unable to declare a charge, their movement is made in compulsory moves phase and if that movement takes them into contact with an enemy unit it is considered a charge. Now, on to other things, I'm not so sure this combination will work. I'm pretty sure, (but not 100% sure) that being mounted on a great cave squig makes your hero immune to psychology, which would mean the battle brew would be wasted points, correct?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-12-2007, 16:31
Well, not really. Because regular squig hoppers are immune to psychology but still Hate Dwarfs. And only a Night Goblin Big Boss can ride a Great Cave Squig, and he Hates Dwarfs as well, and in 7th edition his Hatred will carry over to the squig. But on your other point, would it be fair to be facing directly away from your enemy, pass your Stupidity test, turn back around, roll your movement, and then run into an enemy? I know it technically isn't a charge but it counts as a charge, and if they weren't in your line of sight to begin with, can you charge them? Or do they only have to be in your line of sight to declare a charge?

Anointed_By_Filth
12-12-2007, 17:26
Well, not really. Because regular squig hoppers are immune to psychology but still Hate Dwarfs. And only a Night Goblin Big Boss can ride a Great Cave Squig, and he Hates Dwarfs as well, and in 7th edition his Hatred will carry over to the squig. But on your other point, would it be fair to be facing directly away from your enemy, pass your Stupidity test, turn back around, roll your movement, and then run into an enemy? I know it technically isn't a charge but it counts as a charge, and if they weren't in your line of sight to begin with, can you charge them? Or do they only have to be in your line of sight to declare a charge?

Well, here's the thing, I don't think you can turn the squig BEFORE moving for the Boiiing! I think it moves the way it is facing to begin with, but I could be wrong again. I don't mount my characters usually, some day maybe in a chariot, but probably not a squig, spider or wolf. It's a really vague rule, it doesn't seem quite fair to just turn it away from your enemy, roll your dice and then turn it back around to make the move does it? You'd think the big glob of teeth would fall under the laws of momentum, not sure though. My gaming group typically just calls GW when a question pertaining to a rule that could be that abusive comes around.

And yes, arc of sight is only needed to declare a charge. If you contact an enemy during the movement they are considered charge, no declaration happens with a squig mount.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-12-2007, 17:39
Well, here's the thing, I don't think you can turn the squig BEFORE moving for the Boiiing! I think it moves the way it is facing to begin with, but I could be wrong again. I don't mount my characters usually, some day maybe in a chariot, but probably not a squig, spider or wolf. It's a really vague rule, it doesn't seem quite fair to just turn it away from your enemy, roll your dice and then turn it back around to make the move does it? You'd think the big glob of teeth would fall under the laws of momentum, not sure though. My gaming group typically just calls GW when a question pertaining to a rule that could be that abusive comes around.

And yes, arc of sight is only needed to declare a charge. If you contact an enemy during the movement they are considered charge, no declaration happens with a squig mount.

Nope, rules for Boiiing! state that you declare which direction you want to move, roll 3D6, and then move the figure the number of inches in the direction that you chose. If it comes into contact with an enemy model, it is considered a charge, and the unit can react as such. So you can turn him when you land and have him face whatever direction you want. That is covered in the rules for Monstrous Mounts, I believe. Something about turning as many times and at any point during the move. The end of the move, I believe, is considered a point of the move, so you can face him into a "safe" area at the end of your turn in case you roll badly for your Stupidty check. If you do not roll badly, choose whichever direction you'd like, including towards an enemy unit, then roll 3D6 and see if he will charge them. It seems like it works, rules-wise.

Belerophon709
13-12-2007, 15:28
Yes sir, you are correct, he has an arc of vision. What you don't know is that he is also unable to declare charges with this specific model. Anything mounted on any form of squig is unable to declare a charge, their movement is made in compulsory moves phase and if that movement takes them into contact with an enemy unit it is considered a charge.

You are correct. I didn't take this into account when posting my previous post. They do indeed just bounce along in any direction you choose and if they make contact it counts as a charge.

As for whether or not they can move in any direction: They most certainly can, so the arc of vision thing is pretty much completely nullified by the compulsory movement of the squig.

Dwarf Runelord 45
20-12-2007, 01:09
If someone paints one up they better post some pictures.

Disciple of Caliban
21-12-2007, 15:38
Great idea - I must have one!!

Also, i'm inclined to agree with the rules verdict. Stupidity could effect the squig, but the risks can be minimised by facing a 'safe' direction at the end of your movement, if you fail bounce forward to your safe place, if you pass bounce in the direction of whichever enemy unit you feel will taste best.

rmb43
27-03-2009, 18:12
Enjoyed finding this thread, and I love the NG boss on great squig model! I am definitely gonna purchase a couple for my budding collection! Too cool to pass up. As a new NG general (and new to WHFB altogether), I was wondering what other kit combinations people have found work well with this model? Thanks for any insights or suggestions you care to provide!

Shiodome
27-03-2009, 18:28
all this is well and good, but he's got a crap armour save and unimpressive toughness and just gets shot down. or you can't control his movement and he gets charged. which isn't great seeing how expensive the squig makes him.

that said i still use him becuase the models is great :D but i just give him mads map and a spear/shiled/light armour. and let him go munching on warmachines/support units in first/second turn to help my army cross the board unhindered. mads map seems to work well with squig movement, as you deploy behind terrain and the bounce over it with glee for early charges.

selone
27-03-2009, 19:30
Except you can only use it on a model mounted on foot. I quite like the NG big boss on a giant squig idea, whlst unpredictable move a 360 charge arc and ItP isnt bad at all. He can guard flanks/rears/drive off flyers and see off characters if you go crazy- Give him the battlebrew and sneaky skewerer/lucky dirk and tricksy trinket.

Hvidponi
27-03-2009, 23:10
Just to clarify, as alot of you seem to be stuck in 6th ed; Immunt to Psychology does not affect Hatred, Frenzy or Stupidity anymore, it only affects fear/terror/panic tests, and your ability to flee from a charge (you can't :))

rmb43
28-03-2009, 14:28
Right then, what about something more straightforward? Give him sneaky skewer, enchanted shield, and talisman of protection? Seems like an expensive (for NG) lone unit like this needs every chance he can get to survive shooters until he can get into close combat....

Urgat
28-03-2009, 14:52
Except you can only use it on a model mounted on foot. I quite like the NG big boss on a giant squig idea, whlst unpredictable move a 360 charge arc and ItP isnt bad at all. He can guard flanks/rears/drive off flyers and see off characters if you go crazy- Give him the battlebrew and sneaky skewerer/lucky dirk and tricksy trinket.

That's if you're willing to waste one of your precious character choices for that, though.
The NG on giant squig is pretty useless for regular games, any other choice will be better, even a plain gob on foot.
He's dead meat if what you're facing as any amount of ranged attacks or even light cavalry.


Right then, what about something more straightforward? Give him sneaky skewer, enchanted shield, and talisman of protection? Seems like an expensive (for NG) lone unit like this needs every chance he can get to survive shooters until he can get into close combat....

The weak point is the squig, no matter how you tool up the gob, the squig will go down to any shooting.

neXus6
28-03-2009, 15:16
The squig isn't a large target and 3D6 isn't THAT far, with a couple of units of hoppers and indeed some wolf riders it isn't too hard to keep the big squig shielded from most shooting...and then when it boiiings off into an enemy unit it can do it's thing.
And if it all goes wrong and the poor squig explodes its onto 130 odd points gone.
I've always loved the model and I think now I may have to get one to use. :D

Though I must admit I'm veeery tempted to have a squig riding NG Warboss with a little more equipment. Naturally I would try to keep a unit of infantry nearby for him to dive into if and when the squig explodes. :p

Id'git Thwompa
28-03-2009, 15:57
maybe the FAQ'd this but I am not actually sure where it states the great cave squig is immune to psychology, regular ones are but i don't see it in the mounts rules anywhere. That being said i don't have the book beside me and haven't used a great cave squig in almost a year.

As far as equipment goes, i ran one for a while with the best basha enchanted shield and kickin boots giving him 4 ws 5 st 5 attacks , then you add the cave squigs on top of that. However as posted above as much as i loved this guy it was always an easy 100+ victory points for my opponent. always strikes first is the bane of this guy, as it fast moving models , and large blocks of fear causing troops (as i still believe he is effected by psychology) please someone feel free to correct me on this if i am wrong.

At the end of the day this guy is fun but more fragile then a dragon mage with almost as big a target on his head (few people know the stats of a cave squig but get scared seeing that much teeth)

Mercules
28-03-2009, 17:07
I've used one in a fairly recent battle for a fluffy NG army. Unfortunately, I was facing someone with a good deal of knights and enough shooting to get the job done. The Squig was shot out from under my NG Big Boss. Next time he gets used he will be screened better until he can unleash his attacks. The Battle Brew is not a bad idea. I had mine with a Wallop's One Hit Wunda. I'm thinking the Porko's Pigsticker might be fun.

neXus6
28-03-2009, 17:28
maybe the FAQ'd this but I am not actually sure where it states the great cave squig is immune to psychology, regular ones are but i don't see it in the mounts rules anywhere. That being said i don't have the book beside me and haven't used a great cave squig in almost a year.

In the actual unit description entry for Hoppers and Giant Squigs (p26) it says "Immune to Psycology" and only "May not join units" has "(Great Cave Squigs Only)" next to it. :)

I really need to try and get a pile of Hoppers off a discount site or ebay or something. :p

RossS
28-03-2009, 17:58
The squig isn't a large target and 3D6 isn't THAT far, with a couple of units of hoppers and indeed some wolf riders it isn't too hard to keep the big squig shielded from most shooting...and then when it boiiings off into an enemy unit it can do it's thing.
And if it all goes wrong and the poor squig explodes its onto 130 odd points gone.
I've always loved the model and I think now I may have to get one to use. :D

Though I must admit I'm veeery tempted to have a squig riding NG Warboss with a little more equipment. Naturally I would try to keep a unit of infantry nearby for him to dive into if and when the squig explodes. :p

Agreed. I am so adding one of these to my army. It will fit in with my progressively Night Goblin oriented horde.

And on one of my more unhinged days I may just make it my Warboss.

I can't wait.

Shiodome
28-03-2009, 18:17
cave squig ITP is on pg 26 of O&G army book. squig hopper and cave squig are lumped together in the same entry sharing the same rules.

selone
28-03-2009, 18:42
I heartily recommend a unit of 7 squighoppers in every On'g army :) The cave squig isn't for all occasiosn though but I cant see the harm in one, occasionally, in a 2k game if you can avoid shooting.

Lord Blood the Hungry
14-04-2009, 23:12
think you guys are persuading me to add a hero on a squig to my army's ever expanding squig total. currently 10 hoppers and a unit of 8 herder teams (24 squigs 16 herders)
the rest of the army is 2 shamen and 4 blocks of 50 night gobbos (2 have spears & shields, 2 have bows, all have nets and fanatics).
not played for a couple of editions though.
have pump wagons and trolls as rare units.