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Xgladar
06-12-2007, 03:48
Ive been looking through some old codixes and noticed a picture where theres a marine driving a rhino transport,and this got me thinking.

how many marines are used in non-combat/semi combat roles?
are their thunderhawks also piloted by men in armour? what about their battle barges?
are these marines even trained in weapons use and hand to hand combat when they mostly drive or give logistical support?

Also i want to know just how many actual marines have control over their chapter functioning.things such as food are probably regulated by the master of the household and serfs.but what about computer management,tactical and logistical support,orbital strikes.
What about the librarians,are they just space marines with special powers or do they actually write tomes about chapter history and such when not on the battlefield?

talos935
06-12-2007, 05:16
how many marines are used in non-combat/semi combat roles?

I believe very few marines would have a non combat role, at the very least it would be a remote control over part o the battle field



are their thunderhawks also piloted by men in armour? what about their battle barges?
Yes they do, except they don't always wear shoulder pads



are these marines even trained in weapons use and hand to hand combat when they mostly drive or give logistical support?
Yes, a bit like the modern armies, there will be an expected level of combat training



Also i want to know just how many actual marines have control over their chapter functioning.things such as food are probably regulated by the master of the household and serfs.but what about computer management,tactical and logistical support,orbital strikes.

A lot of the mundane tasks will be done by sevitors



What about the librarians,are they just space marines with special powers or do they actually write tomes about chapter history and such when not on the battlefield?
I'll admit my knowlage in this area is a bit sketchy, but I would expect the most lowly lexicanums and the highest librarians to be the ones writing tombs mainly, becasue the lexicansums would be the poor fools writing and a epistolary would probablies be telling him what to write :D

ctsteel
06-12-2007, 05:41
various of the BL novels when dealing with marine insertions via thunderhawk, have the ships piloted by chapter serfs - regular humans who serve the chapter for their entire life and are trained in such technical stuff as is needed to support the chapter itself.

as for rhinos/landraiders etc - I would imagine its possible for serfs to be doing that also, except for some dangerous or important missions where the marines control it themselves and when they bail out to do their mission it then stays where it is, or they have an extra marine come on the mission purely as tank crew to operate it.

TheMartyr451
06-12-2007, 06:15
I'd like to think failed recruits make up some of the technical support. Kind of like Kaleb the Housecarl in Flight of the Eisenstein.

DapperAnarchist
06-12-2007, 12:25
Thunderhawks and spacecraft are usually piloted by serfs - failed recruits. They also form a reserve PDF force for home planet defence. These guys are all at least as good as Stormtroopers, but with marine level equipment. a scary bunch. Rhinos and Land Raiders are traditionally driven by marines.

Different level librarians have different levels of freedom in what they write for the Chapter Archives - low level write simple action reports, highest levels write histories of the great heroes, and reviews of the chapters past.

SilverScorpion
06-12-2007, 12:32
The bridge crew of all space marine vessels are space marines and all of a thunderhawk's crew are space marines one of them is usually a techmarine if i recall correctly

Burnthem
06-12-2007, 12:49
The bridge crew of all space marine vessels are space marines and all of a thunderhawk's crew are space marines one of them is usually a techmarine if i recall correctly

I dont know where you got this but its generally accepted that Thunderhawk crews are Serfs, think about the number needed, if every Thunderhawk had 2/3 Marines and a Techmarine aboard, then by the time you had filled all the Thunderhawks that a Chapter owns you would have maybe half a squad left to fight on the ground.

Most non-frontline duties are conducted by serfs, the Marines are simply too rare to be wasted on cleaning the dishes/manning the ships guns etc etc

Wolf Scout Ewan
06-12-2007, 13:08
Vehicle Crews are space marines, though they dont wear the power plant backpacks or large shoulder pauldrons.

fengor
06-12-2007, 13:08
a question that always hunted me about a friends black templar was: how do these pyker haters pilot their ships when they dont have navigators?

TheBigBadWolf
06-12-2007, 13:25
Most of the SM ships are actually automated the serfs only aid in the defense of the ship and duties relating to the marines

SilverScorpion
07-12-2007, 08:49
I dont know where you got this but its generally accepted that Thunderhawk crews are Serfs, think about the number needed, if every Thunderhawk had 2/3 Marines and a Techmarine aboard, then by the time you had filled all the Thunderhawks that a Chapter owns you would have maybe half a squad left to fight on the ground.

Most non-frontline duties are conducted by serfs, the Marines are simply too rare to be wasted on cleaning the dishes/manning the ships guns etc etc

I got this from the thunderhawk model itself,the pilots wear power armour,which means they have a black caraprace which means they completed their marine training.

The techmarine reference came from the black library book Nightbringer where he acted as a load master during a boarding operation on a dark eldar ship.

The space marines that pilot them are probably a part of the chapters fleet like the command crews of the strike cruisers/battle barges and dont count as part of the 1000 ground troops that make up a chapter

Burnthem
07-12-2007, 09:39
I got this from the thunderhawk model itself,the pilots wear power armour,which means they have a black caraprace which means they completed their marine training.

The techmarine reference came from the black library book Nightbringer where he acted as a load master during a boarding operation on a dark eldar ship.

The space marines that pilot them are probably a part of the chapters fleet like the command crews of the strike cruisers/battle barges and dont count as part of the 1000 ground troops that make up a chapter

Power armour can be worn WITHOUT a black carapace - see SOB, Inquisitors etc for examples, all a Black Carapace does is allow a higher level of interaction with the suit, its use isnt compulsory.

*Black Library book* pretty much sums up whats wrong with the Techmarine idea, dont take anything you read in a BL book as canon, its usually just an idea that the author thought 'cool' at the time of writing.

And lastly, a Chapters strength is ALL the marines, not just the fighting ground troops, for example, if say the Salamanders had a chapter strength of 860 Marines, thats ALL marines, including ship Captains and techmarines.

Hope this clears a few things up :)

DapperAnarchist
07-12-2007, 10:54
Navigators are Imperially approved psykers. And the battle barges can't be "automated" beyond the level one would find in a hi-tech submarine today, and think of how many crewmen they need. The TOTAL manpower of a chapter is the battle brothers - 800 to 1000 fully kitted out marines, the novices, of who there are about 10-100, depending, and the serfs and occasional servitor, there could be as many as 5000 of those, more likely about 1500-2000. The last set of number is a guess, based on how many they'd need to free up the Brothers for combat.