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Malorian
06-12-2007, 17:52
My list:

2nd gen Slann w/ ASB, plaque of tepok, diadem of power (535)
*So he's the general and the army standard bearer, and he gets an extra spell*

Scar vetw/ burning blade, light armor, shield, itzl, tepok, tzunki, cold one (167)

Scar vet w/ great weapon, light armor, shield, sotek, tepok, charm of the jaguar (153) (JSoD)

Lvl 2 Skink priest w/ rod of the storm (135) *one use bound lvl 5 item that does 2d6 Str 3 (Str 4 if armor is 4+ or better) and causes a panic test*

Lvl 2 Skink priest w/ 2 dispell scrolls (150)

20 Saurus warriors w/ full command (270) *JSoD goes here*

20 Saurus warriors w/ full command (270)

15 Temple guard full command (305) *Slann goes here*

9 Saurus cav, banner bearer w/ huanchi's blessed totem (375) *cold one scarvet goes here*

10 Skinks w/ javs, scout (70)

10 Skinks w/ javs (60)

10 Skinks w/ blowpipe (60)

10 Skinks w/ blowpipe (60)

3 Salamander packs (195)

3 Salamander packs (195)

Total: 3000


I first played against a chaos army that had:

2 units of 25 marauders
2 units of 25 chaos warriors
4 chaos trolls and with them was a cheap lord for Ld
some hero with some gear (sword that gives extra attacks depending on what he was fighting)
some crazy flying deamon prince that was also a lvl 4 mage (easy stopped with all my dispell dice)
2 spawn
*everything had mark of slannesh*

So a really elite list. One thing that quickly came up that pissed me off was that the marauders were toughness 3... at Onslaught the guy told me they were toughness 4 so my arrows were wounding on a 5+ : (

He got first turn and marched up, except for his deamon prince that flew behind some trees. On my turn I moved up the skinks and moved up my cav to the forest facing out as if to be getting ready to charge a flank. This was a trick though as I knew it looked like the perfect place to fly his deamon prince (behind) but in fact on my turn I could turn around and use the banner to charge him with the cav and the JSoD that he probably didn't realize had 360 LOS. My magic and shooting killed a lot of guys and I even got wall or fire on a unit of warriors that (after he moved next turn) killed 13 models!!! I also killed both the spawn.

On his second turn his two units on the right didn't move much and got ready for the cav charge, and as I thought the deamon prince flew behind them. On my turn my cav failed their stupidity test and ran into the forest... meaning I could only charge with the JSoD, which I did. I then moved up my skinks to be just in front of the warriors so that if they charged there would be little chance that he would make it to my saurus block. My magic and shooting was again deadly killing a lot of the warriors and marauders and the marauders even fled. In combat I forgot that the deamon prince would go first, but he only did 1 wound and I did 3 so I won and he ran off the table.

He gave up there, but it didn't end there. He demanded to see my list and we had to sit there for 20 minutes as he added up every little unit and character and double checked that I wasn't doing anything illegal. He thought I was over, but I was exactly 3000. The only thing he found was that my coldone scarvet had three spawning s when he's only allowed two. I had thrown in tzunki at the last second because I had 5 points to spare (it makes him amphibious and +1 initiative (3 => 4)) He seemed fine with that and we were allowed to continue *rolls eyes*


Then I played an empire player with:

kurt helberg (I hate this guy)
lvl 4 mage on barded horse
lvl 2 mage
battle priest on foot
2 units of 20 flagellants
2 units of 10 handgunners
22 halberdiers
5 outriders
5 crossbowmen detachment
2 units of 9 knights, the one with kurt being inner circle
3 cannons
1 rocket battery
1 steam tank

I really paid the price for not taking that 2+ ward on my slann in this game. To sum things up:
-his cannons killed the slann by turn two. (he got plenty of misfires in the game, but only on the bounce roll, so the cannon ball would just hit the slann)
-this was due to me not prioritizing properly and I killed off the rapidly approaching flagellants rather than the warmachines
-My cav unit failed THREE stupidity tests.
-I didn't know the steam tank could do crazy amounts of damage in combat (thought it was a cannon on wheels) and let it get to my lines where it went on to kill three units (while still shooting the cannon at my slann)
-his halberdiers were 7.9999 inches away from my temple guard and thus got the jump on them when I thought they were safe
-one unit of salamanders killed off 3 skink handlers per turn thanks to misfires before the last few models were shot to death

In the end empire had a solid victory, but I at least learned that my 8 wound/toughness 5/4+ ward slann wasn't indestructible, and that the steam tank is really nasty.


Then the chaos player played against the empire army and I think we all know what happened...

The empire army went first but did very little damage with the warmachines, or magic. Only killing a few warriors. Then chaos marched up (he forgot to move a unit of warriors). He placed his deamon prince behind his units, and I still can't figure out why.

On the second empire turn he did a lot better killing a lot more, killing a few trolls with magic, with his shooting killed off both spawn and about 15 warriors. The chaos play moved up again (this time he forgot to move a unit of marauders) and set it up so that if kurt's unit hit and killed the warriors then they would hit into the deamon prince.

On the third empire turn he charged with both kurt's unit and the steam tank. His magic almost finished off the trolls. His shooting killed a lot more warriors and then in combat the two units killed about 12 warriors, but that hero was there which got extra attacks based on the unit sizes of what he is touching (steam tank is unit size 10...) so he had something like 11 attacks but he only killed 2 knights. They failed and ran into the deamon prince. The chaos player tried to charge the halberdiers but the downside of the lord being there was that the unit could only move 8 inches and not 12 so it was a failed charge. With magic he got off with unstoppable force a spell that would made it so kurt units couldn't attack... except that kurt's unit was immune to psychology so it didn't work...

The chaos player gave up and we had to listen for another 20 minutes how this was bull $hit because he always uses when playing with an army he isn't comfortable with and since the marauders weren't painted he wasn't comfortable with this army, and he doesn't like these big games, and his chaos is only good at big games (ya I know, it didn't make sense), and he hates the fact that our armies weren't painted, and that just makes him uncomfortable and made him lose, blah blah... he then sat down and went on to eat an entire big bag of doritos...


It was late (11:30) but the empire player and I decided to have a rematch. We both changed our lists; I dropped the extra spawning, scout off the skinks, and the rod of the storm and put the 2+ ward on the slann, and he dropped both the flagelants, the battle priest, and the crossbowmen and added a hellblaster, and three more lvl2 mages with their fair share of dispell scrolls.

This game was a lot more even and funny.

I got first turn and I moved up my skinks and JSoD and cav and started with magic. I first cast lvl 2 drain magic on his lord mage and failed (6 on 2 dice) and then tried casted the comet with a skink and miscast. The skink took a wound and the magic phase ended!!! NO!!! I still had a handful of dice!!! His turn he killed a few skinks with magic and shooting but out of all his warmachines only 2 didn't misfire so they couldn't shoot that turn or next turn LOL!!! It was a crazy start.

My JSoD charged the steam tank, and my cav were behind to charge if the JSoD failed. I moved a unit of skinks to the side of kurt's unit so they couldn't march (and one of their javs killed a knight ; ) and put a unit of salamanders in front so that if he charged and I ran, then the saurus could charge his side. Magic actually worked this turn but most of it was dispelled with scrolls. I did kill a few cannon crew but that's it. The shooting went better and I killed 7 handgunners (who fled) with one salamander group and killed a mage with the other (he had them standing in the woods for some reason. Combat was a joke. In case you didn't know the steam tank has toughness 6, a 1+ save, and 10 wounds, however once you start taking wounds off it it gets a lot less effective as it gets harder and more risky to generate steam points. My scarvet had 5 attacks that hit automatically, and I needed 3+ to wound... I wounded only once! It got through and caused a wound but I was still hoping for three... On his turn he charged the salamanders with kurt and they fled causing a failed charge. His other knights charged another unit of skinks and I decided to stand and shoot (nothing). His magic wasnt too good because he got a miscast on the second spell that let me cast a spell and he had to use the rest of his dice to stop my comet. His warmachines were still mostly down but his shooting still killed 2 cav and some 4 saraus. In comabt my skinks lost all but 1 model but thanks to a reroll for being within 12 of my ASB I got double 1's and stayed ; ) His steam tanks smashed and killed the JSoD

Turn three I decided that I wasn't strong enough to take on kurt yet (he had put him on the far side so he would have been able to fight) so my only charge was the the saraus into the knights trapped by the 1 skink. I also ran up a skink priest to be 1 inch infront of kurts unit as a sacrifice unit. My cav failed their stupidity (ARRRGHHH!!!) but at least even at stumbling forward at half movement I still hit him so it counted as a charge. My magic was good. I got off the comet in the middle of his guys, and killed off a few outriders and halbrediers. my salamanders killed another mage. in combat my cav scarvet did 1 wound to the tank. in the big combat I did two wounds to the lord mage, and killed 2 knights and he killed the skink and 1 saurus. Despite having a big minus he passed and stayed. On his turn the halbrediers charged the flank of the saurus fighing the knights, and kurt charged the skink priest. His shooting and magic saw one of his cannons explode and 4 temple guard die, and 7 skinks die. He also got the magic fire sword on his lord mage The tank smashed into my cav killing 4, and I did one wound back. I fled (tanks can't run after you). kurt killed the priest and was just within range to overrun into the temple guard (oh boy...) The saurus got beat up. I only lost 2 saraus, and I killed a knight, a wound off the mage in the halbrediers, and to halbrediers, but since I lost my rank bonus I lost at -3 CR. Luckily thanks to the reroll for ASB I stayed.

On my fourth turn the comet landed and killed 2 outriders, 2 crew of the hellblaster, and 1 crew from a cannon. Salamanders charged the flank of the regular knights, and the other salamanders charged the flank of the halbrediers. the saurus charged the flank of kurts knights (there was a lot of fighting in the middle of the board). My skinks charged a cannon and wiped it out, and another group charged another cannon and drawed in combat. the cav rallied. magic killed off the last outrider, dispelled the magic sword and the rest finished off his dispell scrolls. In combat kurt killed 3 temple guard, and the knights killed 5 more, and I killed 3 knights. I lost but both my units held. In the other combat my salamanders killed 3 halbrediers and a knight, and he did 2 wounds to a salamander and killed 2 saurus. my saurus just couldn't manage to finish off the mages and I lost combat by 1, but all of my units stayed. On his turn he tried to get those magic swords but I stopped it and his shooting didn't do much as almost everything was in combat, except he did kill the rest of my cav save for 1 wound on my scarvet. In combat I finished off the last cannon. Kurt only killed 2 temple guard, and I didn't kill anything, so draw combat. In the other combat I killed a few more halbrediers and he killed 4 saurus I still couldn't manage to hit those mages! I lost but stayed again (thank god for general, ASB, and coldblooded)

Turn five my coldone scarvet charged the steam tank, and did 1 wound. A unit of skinks tried to charge the rocket battery in the trees but do to the angle I couldn't actually see them and it was a failed charge. Thanks to the fact that I only had 2 temple guard left my slann was in the front rank and couldn't cast magic. He made a challenge and the knight champ accepted. He killed 1 temple guard and 2 saurus. I did nothing (I hate 1+ saves...) I lost but still stayed. In the other combat I finally killed the mage on foot and some more halbrediers, so I won combat, and both units ran. I couldn't catch the knights, but the salamanders caught the halbrediers and even though I swore I should have hit kurt's flank, I was out voted. On his turn his knights rallied. His shooting killed 5 saurus and almost wiped out the salamanders that caught the halbrediers, and then he tried to get the magic sword but I stopped him. He did kill a few skinks with a fireball, but they stayed. In combat kurt killed some more saurus and I did nothing bad. The slann and 1 temple guard held, but the saurus ran (oh oh...) His tank also killed my coldone scarvet

Last turn, my saurus rally. My saurus and slamanders recharge the knights. I opt for charging his mage with my other salamander (only 1 actual salamander left in this unit) but he fled and it was a failed charge. With the mage in combat I had little magic and the skinks ran up the the forest to throw javs at the rocket battery but didn't do anything. Kurt killed the last temple guard, but with rerollable Ld 6 I wasn't going anywhere. I did ZERO wounds to the other knights and lost 2 saurus, but I still won and he stayed. (This was part of a big frustration for me. The way I've always understood it and played is that if you defeat the enemy and outnumber them and you cause fear then they run unless they get double 1's. They said the actual models that cause fear have to outnumber you. We reread the book and even though I sure I'm right, I was again out voted) On his turn he wiped out the rest of the small salamander unit and tried to get the magic sword but I stopped it (he really liked that sword). With my slann still in a challenge with the knight champ kurt to do nothing as we did no wounds to each other, and rerollable Ld 8 easy kept me there ; ) In the other fight I finally killed the lord mage, won combat and they ran off the board.

There wasn't a lot left on the board and without adding it up we were pretty sure it was a tie. He might have been a bit ahead but not enough to not make it a tie.


So over the night I was 1W-1L-1T, so that my lizardmen are now 5W-4L-1T. Not great, but I'm still working on them. I don't think I'll normally have the 2+ ward on my slann since most people won't have 4 cannons, and I really have to do something about failing stupidity with my cav...

The last game was fun, but with the chaos player giving up early, complaining, the rules I was voted against that I'm sure I'm right, and the poor turnout made the night a bit of a disappointment.

zak
07-12-2007, 15:20
Against Empire I find the Lore of Metal or Fire more useful than heavens. Good report. Is the Chaos player a friend? He must be for you to put up with him!

EvC
07-12-2007, 17:41
Whoosh, what a set of games! Hate it when players give up so easily, to the end, mortals! You seem to play like I use my Lizzies, with timely failed Stupidity tests just when I'm ready to make a Huanchi-charged, miscasts by Skink Priests that end the magic phase, and cannonballs killing Slann by turn 2...

Malorian
07-12-2007, 18:10
Ya the chaos player is a regular. He usually plays DE though.

I've tried playing more aggressively before but it didn't work out so well. Mainly because I had more saurus cav and more failed stupidity tests... I'm almost thinking of taking them out and using terradons instead... they aren't nearly as good for charging but they can still take out smaller units and their ability to march block out really help out my general battle plan.

EvC
07-12-2007, 18:11
Well you should always have at least one unit of Terradons in a Lizardmen army- even if everything else does rubbish, they always do something great in my games :)

Malorian
07-12-2007, 18:34
I own six, but they never seem to fit into my list. I think the problem is that although they have been so bad for me I just love saurus cav...

How big of a unit do you use? And do you mainly flank march and go after warmachines, use them in combat to aid the saurus, or a bit of both?

brambleten
07-12-2007, 21:31
when you killed the empire guys artillery crew, did you remember to damage the cannons as well? being only t7, its a mere 6 to wound them with str 4. i generally see rod of the storm as a waste of points, i usually give each mage a power stone and a dispell scroll.
overall, well done. im pretty sure you are right with the fear stuff. if your unit strength outnumbers his, and you cause fear to him and you win combat, then he is wanting to see snake eyes, or he is running for the hills :)

Malorian
07-12-2007, 21:35
I damaged the cannons, but never enough to destroy them...

I like the auto panic test on the rod of the storm. If there is a weaker unit with low ld that is too low priority for my slann, but I still want to get rid of it I'll wait until the end of the phase and hit it with the rod. I kill a couple and make them take a panic test, and if I killed enough they take another panic test. It is a bit costly but it's been paying off so far...

Gazak Blacktoof
08-12-2007, 00:25
The other guys were right about the outnumber and fear aspect. Its the US of the fear causers that matter. See BRB P 50.

Autobreak if... "the combined unit strength of the units on the loosing side is lower than the combined unit strength of all Fear-causing enemy units on the winning side."

It then goes on to note exceptions.

CHOOBER SNIPES
08-12-2007, 00:43
2 things, one thats a great report and 2, what did u mean by "One thing that quickly came up that pissed me off was that the marauders were toughness 3... at Onslaught the guy told me they were toughness 4 so my arrows were wounding on a 5+ : ("? marauders are t3 and thats good for u cus u wound them easier. or did u think they were t3 and someone said theyre t4. they are t3 (to avoid confusion)

The Adept
08-12-2007, 13:03
Choober, I think he was annoyed that the other opponent had siad they were $ when they're 3. It might have been an honest mistake, but it's still annoying - people should know the rules for their own army.

SevenSins
08-12-2007, 13:06
great going and nice reps, that chaos player should cut the crap and take it like a man. fielding 50 chaoswarriors ain't no way to win...

Malorian
09-12-2007, 17:54
For the marauder thing, at onslaught (a large tournament they held at edmonton) the player I was against told me marauders were t4, which really made it hard for my woodelve arrows.