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Commander Dante
06-12-2007, 23:01
how do they have wings? aka St. Celestine.

Clockwork-Knight
06-12-2007, 23:37
Either implanted, a form of mutation, willed in by pure faith, psychic sorcery, or simply an illusion of the mind.
You can choose, and it could be right.

Gen.Steiner
06-12-2007, 23:46
The wings are probably a super-sophisticated anti-grav device...

...but equally likely they are a gift from the God-Emperor, who is the Divine Master of Humanity. :)

Sister_Sin
06-12-2007, 23:48
...but equally likely they are a gift from the God-Emperor, who is the Divine Master of Humanity.

Now that's the attitude we like to hear. ;)

Sister Sin

Gen.Steiner
06-12-2007, 23:57
Now that's the attitude we like to hear.

It's the only attitude one can have, surely? All others are heresy...! :chrome:

JimmyP0567
07-12-2007, 00:00
It's the only attitude one can have, surely? All others are heresy...! :chrome:

Alas, the Ordo Hereticus is always full of work I'm afraid. :(

Gen.Steiner
07-12-2007, 00:02
Alas, the Ordo Hereticus is always full of work I'm afraid. :(

Then His servants must do His work. :angel:

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 00:54
Indeed.

Heretics crave the cleansing fire of absolution. They need not fear, for we shall deliver.


Sister Sin

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
07-12-2007, 01:04
Wow. I love the Imperium, and all of its servants on Warseer. Faith is purest when it is unquestioning.

Vesica
07-12-2007, 01:09
If they have wings then they are a damn tainted heretic, purge the heretics.

After reading the deus books im very suspicious of mutations, god given or otherwise.

Gen.Steiner
07-12-2007, 01:10
Faith, by its very nature, must be unquestioning. To question the God-Emperor is to commit heresy, for is He not infallible? Does He not protect?

In His name. All things in His name.

The living Saints are yet more proof of His benevolence and His wrath, and of our duty to purge the Galaxy of the unclean, to render it fit for His servants to live in harmony and peace under Him for all time.

EDIT:

Ah, but, Brother Vesica, did not the most holy and blessed Sanguinius possess wings, as a gift from his Father, He who sits in the Golden Throne? Surely the wings of the Saints are no more and no less a gift of purity and sacredness than Sanguinius' wings?

Clockwork-Knight
07-12-2007, 01:25
Meh, a mutant bastard that the Emperor couldn't care less. When that freak primarch laid dead at the feet of Horus who was bathing in raw chaos energies and cackled like a mad man, the Emperor dude ignored him and tried to talk Horus out of that shenanigan about serving Chaos and doing nasty stuff.
And then, Horus pile-drived the Emperor into submission, hacked him an arm away, let one of his eyes melt and broke his hand, because Horus is like Mr. T.

Only when a normal human (either some guard dude called Olanius Pious, an Imperial Fist Terminator or one of those Custodian guys) got vaporized did Emperor-Man take action and kick Horus in the nuts...

:p

Yeah, sure, it wasn't told like that, but strangely enough, it's still true. :D

Vesica
07-12-2007, 01:26
That may be true, but we know for sure how he gained his wings, who is to say that these so called saints are not mutations gifted to them from one of their foul chaos gods?

Vesica
07-12-2007, 01:28
Meh, a mutant bastard that the Emperor couldn't care less. When that freak primarch laid dead at the feet of Horus who was bathing in raw chaos energies and cackled like a mad man, the Emperor dude ignored him and tried to talk Horus out of that shenanigan about serving Chaos and doing nasty stuff.
And then, Horus pile-drived the Emperor into submission, hacked him an arm away, let one of his eyes melt and broke his hand, because Horus is like Mr. T.

Only when a normal human (either some guard dude called Olanius Pious, an Imperial Fist Terminator or one of those Custodian guys) got vaporized did Emperor-Man take action and kick Horus in the nuts...

:p

Yeah, sure, it wasn't told like that, but strangely enough, it's still true. :D


HERETIC, how dare you say such heresies. The Emperor is mr t fool

Gen.Steiner
07-12-2007, 01:29
That may be true, but we know for sure how he gained his wings, who is to say that these so called saints are not mutations gifted to them from one of their foul chaos gods?

Why, the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition, of course. Do you not trust His most pious of servants? :eyebrows:

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 02:08
To be declared a Saint is a difficult thing. It requires a conclave of the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy, first to affirm the declaration is true, then to ensure the individual is just and pure. Living Saints are considered already martyred. Their candle burns out much faster than others.

To question a duly declared Saint is to question the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy. Such questions smack of heresy....

;)

The_Patriot
07-12-2007, 02:42
To be declared a Saint is a difficult thing. It requires a conclave of the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy, first to affirm the declaration is true, then to ensure the individual is just and pure. Living Saints are considered already martyred. Their candle burns out much faster than others.

To question a duly declared Saint is to question the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy. Such questions smack of heresy....

;)

Or in the case of certain Saints they've already died and been transfigured into His Avenging Angel.

Tanith Ghost
07-12-2007, 02:50
That may be true, but we know for sure how he gained his wings, who is to say that these so called saints are not mutations gifted to them from one of their foul chaos gods?


Only a soul of the greatest purity could have done what the lord of Blood Angeld did. To know for a fact that doing your duty will see you dead, and to refuse your one chance to live becase it's the righ thing to do- It's the height of valor and faith.

By the same way, only a completely blind fool would sully the name of such a great warrior with such slander. As the archenemy can empower it's minions, can our Lord not give such aid to the faithful? Can He on Terra not bless us to fight in His holy name?

vogelfrei
07-12-2007, 06:29
Wow. I love the Imperium, and all of its servants on Warseer. Faith is purest when it is unquestioning.

I would say it's purest, when you are the recieving end of the resulting power. (=I=nquisition mostly.)

PS: The original model...and I'm quite sure on that, since I just basecoated her...has no wings btw...

Brother Siccarius
07-12-2007, 08:02
Dedwrekka say: Fightin' fings wiv wings aint no fun, now tearin' 'em off....

Brother Siccarius say: It's truely a gift from his most beneficent Emperor that he should bring his daughters back from the dead to complete his work. They've been touched by his countenance in the after life, and hence their spirits allow them to soar above the throng.

Gen.Steiner
07-12-2007, 09:30
PS: The original model...and I'm quite sure on that, since I just basecoated her...has no wings btw...

She really should have. You know, that cape-like thing with the cherubim?

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 09:56
It's true, she is wingless out of the box. However, there's a lovely conversion in the back of the Codex with wings instead of the cape. I really dislike the cherubim myself so went with wings. More angelic...and they do describe her as angelic in the text. ;)

Sister Sin

Logarithm Udgaur
07-12-2007, 12:24
So are there any other Living Saints other than Celestine and Sabbat?

Gen.Steiner
07-12-2007, 13:06
So are there any other Living Saints other than Celestine and Sabbat?

Plenty, but those two are the only named ones I think.

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 13:21
The Battlesisters often refer to the original founders of their Orders as Sainted...as in Sainted Katherine. So I created Saint Dominica since I have the Ebon Chalice.

According to the background, only a handful in every millenium, so that still allows for quite a few.

Sister Sin

Angelwing
07-12-2007, 13:36
It's true, she is wingless out of the box. However, there's a lovely conversion in the back of the Codex with wings instead of the cape. I really dislike the cherubim myself so went with wings. More angelic...and they do describe her as angelic in the text. ;)

Sister Sin

Stating the obvious from me: She's also got wings in the picture next to her rules, and there is what appears to be a winged saint on the front cover of the codex.
All the conversions with wings that I've seen look so much better. I even copied the idea myself!
Go wings, you won't regret it!

Brother Siccarius
07-12-2007, 18:46
Stating the obvious from me: She's also got wings in the picture next to her rules,
Yes, but the wings in her picture are shimmering and bordering on translucent, making me thing emperor gift/psycher sorcery. (Except for a strange hole under her right arm that just boggles the heck out of me)


All the conversions with wings that I've seen look so much better. I even copied the idea myself!
Go wings, you won't regret it!

Yes, but the thing that always makes me cringe about those wings is that they all look fully corporeal and even tinted browns and greys when all of the images show the wings on the various saints to be a shimmering, in-corporeal white.

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 19:06
How I wish we had miniaturized and inexpensive holofield projectors. Then we could make those wonderful ephemeral wings. Unfortunately, we don't. Drat it all. Until then I'll just keep making do with wings and painting them white; still beats the Cherubim hands down in my own estimation.

Sister Sin

The_Patriot
07-12-2007, 19:18
Yes, but the wings in her picture are shimmering and bordering on translucent, making me thing emperor gift/psycher sorcery. (Except for a strange hole under her right arm that just boggles the heck out of me)


Yes, but the thing that always makes me cringe about those wings is that they all look fully corporeal and even tinted browns and greys when all of the images show the wings on the various saints to be a shimmering, in-corporeal white.

Actually, Saint Celestine's wings are solid in that picture on page 46. If her wings were translucent you would be able to see the Sister's arm behind the wings. The sister has her arms stretched upwards holding a skull down in the lower left corner. The smoke on Celestine's sword is translucent because you can see the feather details of the wings.

On page 12 there is another Living Saint flying with wings in the background. Again, like Saint Celestine, her wings are solid.

Brother Siccarius
07-12-2007, 19:55
How I wish we had miniaturized and inexpensive holofield projectors. Then we could make those wonderful ephemeral wings. Unfortunately, we don't. Drat it all. Until then I'll just keep making do with wings and painting them white; still beats the Cherubim hands down in my own estimation.

Sister Sin

Actually there's a good amount of workable tutorials on how to do see through things, or simply things that reflect images back, we call it NMM and SENMM.

The_Patriot
07-12-2007, 20:07
Actually there's a good amount of workable tutorials on how to do see through things, or simply things that reflect images back, we call it NMM and SENMM.

Which only work from one viewing angle. ;) Still there is the problem that in the artwork the wings are not translucent, but solid.

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 21:08
This is true. In every picture of them I've seen the wings are in fact solid, actual wings.

It would be nice to have ephemeral ones, a nice fx, pipe dream though it is. LOL

Sister Sin

The_Patriot
07-12-2007, 21:14
This is true. In every picture of them I've seen the wings are in fact solid, actual wings.

It would be nice to have ephemeral ones, a nice fx, pipe dream though it is. LOL

Sister Sin

Well to get translucent wings all you need to do is cast them in clear resin. For the lighting effect just make sure that when you cast the wings leave several small holes running the length of the wings then just run super thin fiber optic cable in the holes. With the right cable and driver you could make the wings change colors.

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 21:25
Interesting idea, but not my cup of tea. For one thing, it's beyond my skill. For another....it seems sort of...I don't know..tacky. I'll stick with the wings I use. LOL

Someone will do it, at some point, I'm sure. Be interesting to see; might be I'd find it pretty, but in my mind's eye it isn't for me.

Thanks for the suggestion though. :)

Sister Sin

The_Patriot
07-12-2007, 21:33
Interesting idea, but not my cup of tea. For one thing, it's beyond my skill. For another....it seems sort of...I don't know..tacky. I'll stick with the wings I use. LOL

Someone will do it, at some point, I'm sure. Be interesting to see; might be I'd find it pretty, but in my mind's eye it isn't for me.

Thanks for the suggestion though. :)

Sister Sin

You're most welcome and here's (http://www.frontgate.com/jump.jsp?itemID=5529&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=5529&path=1%2C2%2C162%2C160%2C266)something similar to what I was talking about. Personally, I used Reaper wings for my Saint and she turned out beautiful.

http://usera.imagecave.com/ThePatriot/Warhammer40k/100_0240-copy.jpg

Sister_Sin
07-12-2007, 23:19
Those wings aren't bad even so. I'll give Reaper wings a try actually. I used Pegasus wings before.

Thanks!

Sister Sin

Slazton
08-12-2007, 03:44
Chaos did it. Simple. There is no Emperor. They are manifestations of Tzeentch to play out some role or form in His Great Plans.

Never doubt the Great Conspirator.

Faith has nothing to do with it. The Living Saint offers hope. Hope is a false feeling that soon leads to nothing but failure and death.

Just chucking in another heretical theory ;)

Gen.Steiner
08-12-2007, 13:09
... the thing that always makes me cringe about those wings is that they all look fully corporeal and even tinted browns and greys when all of the images show the wings on the various saints to be a shimmering, in-corporeal white.

Were not the Primarch Sanguinius's wings real? Were these, also, not gifts from He who is our Divine Lord and Master? Why must you doubt, Brother? :cries: It saddens me that I find the heresy of doubt in you.


Personally, I used Reaper wings for my Saint and she turned out beautiful.

http://usera.imagecave.com/ThePatriot/Warhammer40k/100_0240-copy.jpg

:eek: Stealin' dat!


Chaos did it. Simple. There is no Emperor. They are manifestations of Tzeentch to play out some role or form in His Great Plans.

Heresy of the vilest kind. You will find redemption in death; may He forgive you for the Inquisition cannot...

Clockwork-Knight
08-12-2007, 13:27
Were not the Primarch Sanguinius's wings real? Were these, also, not gifts from He who is our Divine Lord and Master? Why must you doubt, Brother? :cries: It saddens me that I find the heresy of doubt in you.Oooohhh, the wing-freak mutant primarch? The one that the Emperor couldn't care less when he lied dead at the feet of Horus? Nah, I don't think so. :D

Gen.Steiner
08-12-2007, 14:01
Oooohhh, the wing-freak mutant primarch? The one that the Emperor couldn't care less when he lied dead at the feet of Horus? Nah, I don't think so. :D

More heresy! We have uncovered a nest of evil, and must purge it... now, where'd that heavy flamer go...

Slazton
08-12-2007, 14:15
Don't go insulting Horus' favourite brother. Just because Sanguinius was on the wrong side of the Hersey (in the end the Imperium will crumble) does not mean he was not well loved and respected. I would gamble even Konrad Curse had a liking to him and he hated everyone.

As for my heresies, one must consider that everything is a heresey. The Emperor is dead. We are foolishly keeping His Soul tied to our mortal plane for our own selfish reasoning. We are fools. That is why Chaos will win.

When I say Tzeentch did it, I meant it. His Plans are coming to fruitation ;).

One last note: I've actually wondered that if all Living Saints would have wings and how are they able to gain all the 'powers.' Truly the Sisters of battle take Faith to a whole new level and being honest, has anyone actually ever wondered how Acts of Faith work in the canon and fluff?

I mean does Spirit of the Matyr mean they become just f-ing hardcore and take a plasma cannon to the chest and keep fighting even though their entrails are all over the ground and their right lung is disentragated? Or is that there is a brillant white light and they are englufed in the holy Faith of the Emperor?

Truly is it Faith as in a martial strong determined will or is it Faith as in a manifestation of the Emperor's Divine Will that works in the same way as the Chaos Gods accidently bestowing a gift on a Chaos Champion?

Angelwing
08-12-2007, 14:21
Aiee! I won't listen to your honeyed lies! :p Reach for your flamers and purge this nest of vipers!

Faith powers: well, lets wait for the upcoming dawn of war expansion to see a visual representation.

And to join the party: http://warseer.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1569

Ignore the naff base, that will be dealt with shortly!

The_Patriot
08-12-2007, 14:32
Don't go insulting Horus' favourite brother. Just because Sanguinius was on the wrong side of the Hersey (in the end the Imperium will crumble) does not mean he was not well loved and respected. I would gamble even Konrad Curse had a liking to him and he hated everyone.

As for my heresies, one must consider that everything is a heresey. The Emperor is dead. We are foolishly keeping His Soul tied to our mortal plane for our own selfish reasoning. We are fools. That is why Chaos will win.

When I say Tzeentch did it, I meant it. His Plans are coming to fruitation ;).

One last note: I've actually wondered that if all Living Saints would have wings and how are they able to gain all the 'powers.' Truly the Sisters of battle take Faith to a whole new level and being honest, has anyone actually ever wondered how Acts of Faith work in the canon and fluff?

I mean does Spirit of the Matyr mean they become just f-ing hardcore and take a plasma cannon to the chest and keep fighting even though their entrails are all over the ground and their right lung is disentragated? Or is that there is a brillant white light and they are englufed in the holy Faith of the Emperor?

Truly is it Faith as in a martial strong determined will or is it Faith as in a manifestation of the Emperor's Divine Will that works in the same way as the Chaos Gods accidently bestowing a gift on a Chaos Champion?

Since the Emperor has been enthroned on the Golden Throne he maintains a warp presence that is pretty good sized. Sisters merely tap into his warp presence and remember folks that belief in something is enough to create it in the warp. Get enough people to believe that the Emperor is a God and he becomes a God in the warp. There is good warp energy and evil warp energy. The Chaos gods inhabit the evil warp energy while the Emperor inhabits the good warp energy. The good energy has always been there and is much older then the evil warp energy.

Gen.Steiner
08-12-2007, 15:10
Actually, warp energy is entirely neutral; it is the thoughts and feelings of sentient species that create 'good' and 'bad' warp energy.

As for the Master Plan of Tzeentch, he doesn't have one. Sorry to break it to ya kid, but the God of Change schemes for the fun of it - if he ever got to the end of any single grand plan, what would be left for him? :p

Tanith Ghost
08-12-2007, 15:27
Oooohhh, the wing-freak mutant primarch? The one that the Emperor couldn't care less when he lied dead at the feet of Horus? Nah, I don't think so. :D


Too bad for your assesment of him Sanguinus' conduct at the seige of Terra proves his purity beyond all doubt. And it was Sanguinus who opened that one tiny weakness in Horus' defenses that ultimately led to the Emperor's victory.

To go to battle when you know without a doubt it will see you dead and do so anyway for no other reason then because it's the right thing to do
is something only a soul of unblemished purity and nobility could ever do.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Clockwork-Knight
08-12-2007, 15:28
The gods of Chaos are all like that Azatoth dude of the Lovecraft pantheon. Mighty, but idiot gods who simply do things on their own because that's what they do... And of course, they were created by mortals and simply embody the concepts they represent and are fueling themselves by it. :D

Kandarin
09-12-2007, 00:41
idiot gods who simply do things on their own because that's what they do...

I would take it one step further and say they do the things they do because that's what they are.

Clockwork-Knight
09-12-2007, 01:44
Too bad for your assesment of him Sanguinus' conduct at the seige of Terra proves his purity beyond all doubt. And it was Sanguinus who opened that one tiny weakness in Horus' defenses that ultimately led to the Emperor's victory.

To go to battle when you know without a doubt it will see you dead and do so anyway for no other reason then because it's the right thing to do
is something only a soul of unblemished purity and nobility could ever do.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.He was a good soldier. But the Emperor still didn't care that much about Sanguinius, the wing-freak mutant primarch. Only when a normal dude got casually killed by Horus did the Emperor then finally give up on Horus and decide to kick him in his astral nuts. :D
And that's after having gotten his back broken, his hand severed, his eyes melted, and his throat cutted, because he didn't believe that Horus was that evil, even although that guy burned half his Imperium, was immersed in raw Chaos sauce, and laughed like your average evil master overmind. :p

The Emperor cared for normal humans, but not his mutant freak supersoldier templates. Magnus was first destined to be chained to the Golden Throne because of his freakish psyker powers and power up the Astronomican, but then, Malcador and afterwards the Emperor were put in after the Heresy. :p

Commander Dante
09-12-2007, 02:30
The Emperor served humans that was his job, he did nothing for himself, he created the primarchs to do the same.

Clockwork-Knight
09-12-2007, 04:07
Exactly. In the end, Primarchs are cannon-fodder, and normal humans are more important for the Emperor than the well-being of those over-sized babies with freak mutations. It's the normal humans that count, and it's for them that the Imperium was created.

TheMartyr451
09-12-2007, 04:15
So are there any other Living Saints other than Celestine and Sabbat?

Euphrati Keeler, but I don't know if she is considered a full fledged saint like Celestine though.

Cosmocrat
09-12-2007, 04:15
The Emperor was not OF the Space Marines. He created them to serve him - to be his toy soldiers in essence.

They served him and the Imperium, until they decided their own goals were more important than the safety of the human race.

Commander Dante
09-12-2007, 04:48
according to the fluff (the HH series specificly) Horus basicly said that Sanguinus was the only Primarch that shared the Emperor's vision for humanity, Sanguius ultimitly knew that his life was worth sacrificing if it was for the good of humanity.

feintstar
09-12-2007, 14:02
Back onto the Wings

I think that the Saints get it from wherever those Cherubim get theirs from.

Were do the Cherubim get their wings from anyway???

Freak Ona Leash
09-12-2007, 14:21
Cherubim, as in those floaty robot-baby things that are always in 40k artwork? They are floaty robot-baby things, they fly because of anti-gravity motors in them. I doubt Living Saints do the same.

If you mean Cherubim as in the angels from Judeo-Christian myth, they get them from Gawd.

Minister
10-12-2007, 02:14
Given that the Living Saint is a conduit for the will of the Emperor, I maintain that it is a "Mark of Chaos" from the Emperor. Neither a physical mutation nor a psychic power per se, ghostly wings (or flaming, in mine's case) are a special effect rather than a means of propulsion.

That, or she's got a jump pack, which is an equally valid conversion.

Wikhed
10-12-2007, 06:18
The Saints and Cherubim get their wings at Spencers in the mall.