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thedeadmonky
07-12-2007, 05:29
hello, here is my first 2k point empire list for ya! if you could comment that would be great! btw, i know flagellants arn't the best, but i really want to try them out. thanks!

Lords: General of the Empire; barded horse, dawn armor, sword of power, shield, goes w/ knights [179 points]

Hero's: Captain of the Empire; BsB, sword of justice, armor of metric iron, goes w/ big swordsmen unit [120 points]

wizard; doomfire ring, lv. 2 [130 points]

wizard, rod of power, lv. 2 [130 points]

Core: 20 swordsmen; full command, det. 8 handgunners, det. 8 spearmen w/ shields [257 points]

24 swordsmen; full command, det. 10 handgunners, det. 8 spearmen w/ shields [297 points]

9 knightly orders; full command, standard of arcane warding [277 points]

Special: 5 pistoliers; musician, outrider w/ repeater pistol [114 points]

great cannon [100 points]

Rare: helstorm rocket battery [115 points]

20 flagellants; prophet of doom [210 points]

well thats it! thanks again

Fate
07-12-2007, 12:48
I find this roster full of wrongness.
The mages don't have a single dispel scroll and the main reason you need them is dispeling, also i belive that the items they have will do you no good as just a couple of low level mages won't really do anything without being dispeled. Also drop them to level 1 since they don't really offer any good magic power.

The dawn armour is good, but good for a hero, a lord will most likelly need a holy relic instead.

Detachments, they are not good, but if you find yourself wanting them, i'd advise to bring only shooting detachments, also spearmen are the worst detachment ever, they can only be good as main units. If you really want detachment for combat, use halberdiers, at least they strike with Str 4.

The standard of arcana warding is a waste of points, specially since not many spells can cause havoc on heavy cavalary, change it for a warbanner. A CR point for 25 points is good.

The pistoliers i belive, are a wrong bet, but try it and see for yourself if you can get a good use for them.

Only 1 cannon is not enough on any empire army, at very least 2 of of them.

The flagelants like you said, are not good, but try them out and see for yourself.

The hellstorm rocket battery really sucks. The Str5 template looks fancy and all but in the endit never hits. First you roll an artilery dice just like a cannon, then you roll artilery and scatter dice to see where it lands. I've tried it in 4 games, and in the 24 shots it got. Only 1 time did it hit.
Once again, try it out but soon you'll be fielding a hellblaster or a steam tank.

I never got to talk about the swordmen, but put simple, infantry blocks never acomplished nothing for me except die quickly.

thedeadmonky
07-12-2007, 15:28
I find this roster full of wrongness.
The mages don't have a single dispel scroll and the main reason you need them is dispeling, also i belive that the items they have will do you no good as just a couple of low level mages won't really do anything without being dispeled. Also drop them to level 1 since they don't really offer any good magic power.

The dawn armour is good, but good for a hero, a lord will most likelly need a holy relic instead.

Detachments, they are not good, but if you find yourself wanting them, i'd advise to bring only shooting detachments, also spearmen are the worst detachment ever, they can only be good as main units. If you really want detachment for combat, use halberdiers, at least they strike with Str 4.

The standard of arcana warding is a waste of points, specially since not many spells can cause havoc on heavy cavalary, change it for a warbanner. A CR point for 25 points is good.

The pistoliers i belive, are a wrong bet, but try it and see for yourself if you can get a good use for them.

Only 1 cannon is not enough on any empire army, at very least 2 of of them.

The flagelants like you said, are not good, but try them out and see for yourself.

The hellstorm rocket battery really sucks. The Str5 template looks fancy and all but in the endit never hits. First you roll an artilery dice just like a cannon, then you roll artilery and scatter dice to see where it lands. I've tried it in 4 games, and in the 24 shots it got. Only 1 time did it hit.
Once again, try it out but soon you'll be fielding a hellblaster or a steam tank.

I never got to talk about the swordmen, but put simple, infantry blocks never acomplished nothing for me except die quickly.

ok...so what would you put in then? no infanty blocks? no flagellants? no pistoliers?

anyways, these are the models i currenty have, so maybe you can advise me what to get/use:

2 captains on horse
grand master
wizard on horse
wizard on foot
engineer
luther huss (or priest on horse)
19 spearmen
19 swordsmen (not including an 8-man det.)
18 handgunners
20 knights
8 free company
5 greatswords
helblaster
cannon

i was going to be getting the empire reinforcment battlaion which comes with 20 flagellants, 20 state troops, 2 wizards, and helblaster/helstorm

thanks

MattKienbaum
07-12-2007, 17:38
Well, I am in some disagrement with Fate. I feel you have a desent start hear.
Your seneral is fine. I use one simular to this and fine him effective. but be carfull. he is not a good thing to use as a hammer.
I would drop one wizzard for a Warrior priest. He'll caust about the same but a WP placed in a large block of infentry can give it a lot of punch and you still get a dispell dice.
Dispell scrols are nice, but depending on your apponet they can be overated.
your infentry blocks are good but I would change the speermen for eather Halbeaders or free companys, ST4 or extra attack.
I would also play with some numbers and see about geting 2 units of 6 knights. (The 6 can include your BSB and general if you want to go that rought. i like my BSB mor moble anyway.
Pistoleers are great, i love them but You must learn how to use them.
I have never used the helstrum rocket or flagellants. I am fond of a helblaster and A Giant as my rare's. I also think a second cannon or a unit outriders would help you army if you could fin room for them.
Bet of luck.

thedeadmonky
07-12-2007, 23:37
ok, here is my new list:

general w/ barded warhorse, sword of power, full plate armor, shield, holy relic (with 1st knight unit)

captain w/ barded warhorse, BsB, sword of justice, armor of metric iron (with 2nd knight unit)

wizard w/ 2 dispel scrolls

warrior priest w/ dawn armor, extra hand weapon (with big swordsmen unit)

5 knights w/ command

5 knights w/ command

24 swordsmen w/ command, 10 handgunners, 8 free company

20 swordsmen w/ command, 8 handgunners

5 pistoliers, command, repeater pistol

helstorm rocket battery

mortar

cannon

20 flagellants w/ prophet



and heres another one w/ different hero's:

arch-lector, barded warhorse, dawn armor, holy relic, great weapon (with 9 knights)

warrior priest, extra hand weapon, armor of metric iron

wizard, lv. 2, 2 dispel scrolls

wizard, lv. 2, doomfire ring

24 swordsmen, command, 8 free company, 8 handgunners

20 swordsmen, command, 8 handgunners

9 knights, command

6 knights, command

5 pistoliers

cannon

helblaster

helstorm rocket battery

Fate
08-12-2007, 03:24
Well, you don't have much, but lets see what i'd do.

The general takes holy relic, sword of power and enchanted shield, on a horse to get save 0+.

Another hero on horse with sword of sigismund (you don't needed armour of meteoric iron on a mounted hero, he can save at 1+ without any magic items).

2 wizards with 4 dispel scrolls. Some will say it's bad to waste 200 points on dispell scroll. I say that if you find an army with 4 mages, it still will only last 2 turns.

get a unit of 9 knights inner circle with warbanner and full command.

a unit of 9 knights with full comand.

2 units of 10 handgunners. (it's ok to use 2 models for proxy)

A cannon, a hellblaster. Use the mortar as another cannon.

From there just use whatever left to fill the blanks.


I strongly advise you to get a couple of cannons to at least have 3 to play so you are free to chose more or less artilery (i usually use 3 to 4).
Get a steam tank.
Get more mages on foot.
Get archers, at least 30 so you can have 2 normal units and a huntsmen unit.
Also if you fell like building up something, modeling a war altar might prove some fun and a good addition to your army.

kdh88
10-12-2007, 06:08
Understand that Fate is a proponent of gunlines, which are looked down on by most groups and generally not considered particularly fun or interesting to play as or against; his group seems to be an exception to this (not that there's anything wrong with this, it's just unusual). Assuming your's is not, I'd make the following changes to your original list:

Current total: 1929 (71 points left)

Drop 3 knights, banner of warding, make remainder Inner Circle (the current unit is a bit unwieldy and the banner is unlikely to help it; plus Inner Circle knights will hit harder)

Replace spearmen with free company/halberdiers according to taste (Spearmen make poor detachments because the spear advantage is lost when they counter charge, and free company/halberdiers without shields are cheaper and more killy)

Reduce hand gunner detachments to 5 (Easier to deploy)

Drop 2 flagellants (18 is plenty enough for a tarpit, and 6x3 is better than 5x4 for flaggies)

Replace Ring with 2 dispel scrolls (more magic defense is always good)

Buy 5 more swordsmen (gives an extra rank to the 20 man block, meaning +1 CR and possible outnumber)


202 points left

Option 1: Buy another unit of knights (Inner Circle w/ command): 196 points, 6 left
Result: New hammer unit

Option 2: Buy a 5 man unit of vanilla knights (no IC, no command) and a unit of ten Handgunners (no command): 195 points, 7 left
Result: New flank unit, plus more fire support/war machine guards

Option 3: Upgrade General to Arch-Lector, Upgrade Captain to Warrior Priest, buy 5 man unit of vanilla knights: 200 points, 2 left
Results: Huge upgrade to the IC Knights (reroll for attacks as a result of Arch-lector’s Hatred), 3 bound spells per turn, 3 more dispel dice, new flank unit. This would be my choice.

Option 4: Replace vanilla knights in Option 2 or 3 with 5 Pistoliers and musician: saves 18 points
Result: Different style; more maneuverable, less powerful. If combined with option 2, you can get a Warbanner for one of your infantry blocks, or a Steel Standard for the IC knights, or give your General an Icon of Magnus.

Option 5:Replace vanilla knights in Option 2 or 3 with 5 Outriders and musician: saves 2 points
Result: Less powerful and more fragile but lots of firepower (15 S4 AP shots per Turn = ouch)

Edit: Your second two lists would both work, but I recomend dropping the command from the 5 man knight units; they give up victory points too easily, and you definately need a combat detachment and another rank in the smaller swordsman block. Also, a Great Weapon is probably better for a WP than extra hand weapons. I still think 9 knights are too many for one unit, and would reccomend dropping some and making the remainder Inner Circle, but YMMV.

AFoolProofPlan
10-12-2007, 09:39
I have to agree with kdh88 here.
Unit of 9 Knights are over kill. Honestly, they don't need a rank bonus. And I don't want to pay 115 pts for 1 measly CR anyways.
5 or 6 wide Knights should be able to break most infantries on charge, especially with a Character.

No spearmen as Detachment. And try to keep the detachment small. You don't want your opponent to have any reasons to charge your detachment, as oppose to your Parent unit.

I personally don't mind that many warmachines , but eh. That's personal preference I suppose. Although, I'd be more inclined to use a 2nd Cannon as oppose to a mortar.
I have very little faith in what's essentially a Stone thrower with S3 hits that allows armour save.

As for my so called advice.
I would try Inner Circle Knights, and perhaps a Grand Master. I'm just a little biased here, but since I prefer a hitty Character.

For other Characters. I'd mess around couple times with different combinations. Seeing what you like. If you're like me, and don't like magic. Try a mounted priest. He'll provide nice protection for you, and make your unit go the extra miles.

Also keep the other unit of Knights, and Pistoliers. Pistoliers are awesome for supporting knights. They can keep up with knights first of all, and with free reform, they can March block, and set up Flank Charge for your knights. Albeit, easier said then done, but still. It's a start.

Another unit to consider is Greatswords. With a Priest, those guys are deadly.

Anyways. That's all. And like I always say. This just my humble opinion. You can take it or leave it. It's up to you :)