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View Full Version : Would it be a bad idea to start a lost and the damned army now?



big squig
07-12-2007, 22:52
I just did some zombie guardsman for an undead guard army I wan to do and I was thinking of doing a nurgle LatD army instead. Is it possible? Is the chaos book just completely incapatable with the LatD book?

Keep in mind that I won't be playing in any tournaments so if the only issues are things common sense can get around I'm not worried.

DarkSoldier
07-12-2007, 23:10
The major sticking points are the removal of the Chaos Lieutenant and the armoury.

Deus Mechanicus
07-12-2007, 23:10
not possible anymore the LatD makes references that doesnt exist anymore

Koschai
07-12-2007, 23:11
The LatD list with the Eye of Terror was compatible with the last chaos codex. Even then it had very little support. Since the new chaos codex has come out it is a technically illigal list.

That said while the answer will be a firm no for tournaments (unless its a small tourny, your lucky and the organizers okay it) for friendly games many people still run them and while it depends on your opponent saying yes I really cant see anyone saying no.

For the future GW have made several statements that they have no plans to update or support a LatD list or codex in the future (I dont buy the rumors of LatD in the Demon codex and the apoc datasheet was for legion of the damned, a marine list) so I would have concerns for thier current status to gradually degrade as with the likes of Genestealer cults and Squats (both of which had player bases).

That said there is a fairly large player base for this list, it's still up on the GW site with it's own section and the release of plague zombies as a new datasheet all suggest that the army is not dead yet!

Personally I wouldn't start investing significant cash into a list with the Sword of Damocleas hanging over it but if you want to, feel you dont care about tournaments and have flexible players available or have faith that the player base can exert some influence over GW then sure run with it and have fun! Theres no question this is one of the best convertion armies out there!

Koschai

theluc
08-12-2007, 01:56
if you do it for the hobby and only play for funs, well go for it and i agree on of the best army out there

Ordo Ouroboros
08-12-2007, 02:15
You can for Apoc games or agreed games.

Lord Humongous
08-12-2007, 03:06
They are officially "obsolete", so not allowed in tournaments. I have a fair bit of LATD stuff and pretty much figure I can't use it as folks won't want to face a list that is both obsolete and requires some adaptation of rules with no official sanction. I certainly won't be expanding. But I suppose it CAN be done. Here's the main issues I see:

HQ: Seems you pretty much are stuck with a greater deamon, as he's the only viable native LaTD HQ. The AC's can't buy any wargear, so would suck, and the Arch Heretic / Lieutenant simply doesn't have a unit entry in the new book. Your second HQ can be an ally, and a sorcerer would actually be very nice as an "arch heretic". Hmm, a sorcerer and his pet deamon....

Mutants: Unsure whether the Icon the Mutants get would work for summoning (and deep strike, as they do in the new codex). The Mutant Boss can't buy wargear, so is pretty lame. If you run zombies, that's not an issue, I suppose.

Traitors: Again, with the Icon issue.

Aside from that, maybe there really aren't so many issues. Which pisses me of all the more- GW could SO easily put a "fix" for this army (which they sold a damn codex and special models for!) out as a PDF, and instead are basically just telling folks who bought into it to get bent. Sure, it would amount to publishing unit entries for AC's, Arch Heretic, Mutants, and maybe traitors but WTF?

Cosmocrat
08-12-2007, 04:19
Its always a bad idea to turn away from the guiding light of the Emperor.

Supremearchmarshal
09-12-2007, 18:39
I just did some zombie guardsman for an undead guard army I wan to do and I was thinking of doing a nurgle LatD army instead. Is it possible? Is the chaos book just completely incapatable with the LatD book?

Keep in mind that I won't be playing in any tournaments so if the only issues are things common sense can get around I'm not worried.

I say go for it, as long as you don't plan on using them in tournaments. I've had no problems using them in my gaming group, and that's what matters to me.

The easiest way to fix the list is:

1. all units and rules that are in the "native" LatD list take precedence - so Aspiring Champions take their marks from the LatD list and Spawn are a HS choice.

2. Mutant and Traitor Icons count as personal Icons.

3. Arch Heretic counts as either a Sorcerer or a Lord.

4. Allies are used according to their FoC position; ignore the reference to marks. Discuss with your group if you want Obliterators or Dreads to be available (since Obliterators used to be Elites and Dreads were HS).

5. Characters which may select wargear from the armoury may instead select the options available to the Aspiring Champion in a Chaos Space Marine Squad.

6. Daemon Packs and Daemonic Beasts are now Lesser Daemons.

7. Gibbering Hordes - either use the old (3.5ed) rules or wait for the Daemon codex.

kore
09-12-2007, 18:50
...or, you could use the LatD rules with the old, compatible codex. If it's for friendly games, as you've said, it shouldn't be a problem. It was considered balanced then, why not now (it's still a 4th edition army)? I wouldn't have any issue playing against an old, legal army. No sense preventing you from playing an army you invested time and money in, the game is supposed to be fun (rule #1)!

Koschai
09-12-2007, 19:26
I would have to agree that you should continue to use the old chaos codex until (if) a new latd codex comes out. That is what it was written and balanced with.

And as we've said it's already not allowed in tournaments so your talking friendly games only.

Norsehawk
09-12-2007, 20:21
Another option, use the Renegades list from Imperial Armor 5, the siege of Vraks book, as that is a stand alone latd (for the most part) list

StefDa
09-12-2007, 20:25
It is entirely possible. Remember, what is the "Chaos Aspiring Champion" in codex: Eye of Terror? Yes, that's simpl a Chaos Space Marines unit champion. Just use the champion with the new codex, and use the Marks from codex: EoT. Oh, and remember to ask for your opponnent's consent.

Visionary
09-12-2007, 20:29
I personally just asked my local staff if I could use the unofficial Latd list and they said yes. If you have friendly staff or if you are playing with friends I don't see why you can't to be honest.

Supremearchmarshal
09-12-2007, 20:29
Another option, use the Renegades list from Imperial Armor 5, the siege of Vraks book, as that is a stand alone latd (for the most part) list

It's more of a traitor guard list (and you can get a unit of Chosen CSM) - so if you're using mostly guard its ok, but if your army has lots of mutants and daemons it's not really an option.

Quentin
09-12-2007, 21:13
Well personally I'm all geared up for starting a LatD list of my own, shelving my Mechanised Guard for the time being. (Way more expensive :cries:)

I'll be using the Old Chaos Codex with reference to small things like wargear. The army will largely stand on it's own since I'm not using any Chaos Marines, Obliterators, Defilers or Spawn which have all had significant overhauls.

I'm not fond of those units anyway :p.

Just Traitors and Mutants, with Aspiring Champions only relying on the codex for petty wargear options.

I wouldn't like to think anyone would refuse my list on the grounds that the old Chaos codex is obsolete, it hardly uses it at all!

Killgore
09-12-2007, 22:08
I would have to agree that you should continue to use the old chaos codex until (if) a new latd codex comes out. That is what it was written and balanced with.

And as we've said it's already not allowed in tournaments so your talking friendly games only.

thats what i do when i play lost and the damned :)

if its for friendly games i doubt many people will complain, how many people could turn down the chance to fight against a horde army of mutants and zombies :D

Quentin
09-12-2007, 22:13
Besides, in my GW they still sell the Eye of Terror codex, and also technically the list is only illegal in British tournaments, for some obscure reason. In the recent Baltimore GT, an LaTD army came in 16th place, I believe.

Not that Tournie legalilty really bothers me anyway. I only play friendly games.

Templar Ben
09-12-2007, 22:30
It's more of a traitor guard list (and you can get a unit of Chosen CSM) - so if you're using mostly guard its ok, but if your army has lots of mutants and daemons it's not really an option.

You could use the mutants as renegade ogryan. Just a thought.

Zanzibarthefirst
09-12-2007, 22:44
there is an Latd battle formation coming out some time so you wouldnt have a problem using Latd in apoc. Although if my memory serves me correctly, the datasheet might only include rules about mutants, big bosses, rabble rousers and someone else so i'm not sure if its a complete list.
However, if you combine the Latd datsheet with the IA5 Renegade Vrakian list you get a full Latd army

Bassik
29-12-2007, 23:23
I use codex: Imperial Guard with heavily converted models.
For the basic guardsman and its varients, I use a mix between catachan and Empire Flaggelants conversions. Vehicles got a Chaos treatment, since I got plenty of bits from y CSM vehicles, and Ogryns and the like make excellent Mutants.
I only got around 600 pts so far, but its growing
(Nothing painted yet, though)

Brother Siccarius
30-12-2007, 00:11
Codex: IG with the rules for enemies at the back of the Witch Hunter and Demon Hunter Codexies. References to Chaos Armory are instead referred to the options open to an Aspiring Champion in the new book.

It leads to a very fluffy and open army list.

Bassik
30-12-2007, 11:57
Here's some of my own favorite conversions:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Bassarias/Afbeelding005-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Bassarias/Afbeelding004-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Bassarias/Afbeelding003-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/Bassarias/Afbeelding002-2.jpg

Easy E
30-12-2007, 17:04
You can use the Old Codex rules, this is what I do with my gaming buddies.

However, if I go to play in store I make liberal use of counts as with the IG Codex.

I'm still tinkering and playing with my LaTD. No thanks to GW, so I also don't buy the stuff I need from them either.