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Artemis_Quinn
14-04-2005, 23:26
What's the unit you use or have fought against that is overall the most difficult to beat? What diabolical combo do you or your opponent use that you or he can't seem to fend off?


My powerhouse unit was My Slann with Temple guard combo

It cost ungodly amounts of points but it was efficient and well worth every one of them. Basically here's how it went (this is with the chronicles lizardmen list)


Slann
w/ Battle standard, totem of prophecy (gives unit fear), and something like plaque of dominion I think (gave an extra power and dispel die).

26 Temple guard with either the war banner or Jaguar standard, full command

Basically the Slann would pray to tepok that he was blessed with the flaming sword of ruin spell, making him the nastiest combat character ever! I think it was 5 strength 8 hits on 2+ attacks. He had a 4+ ward in combat 2+outside of it. Then I would give him healing hands from lore of light so that if you did manage to get his ungodly amount of wounds really low, there they are again! Then of course he was a level 4 wizard. On top of that his unit was stubborn on a leadership of cold-blooded 7 stubborn that it got to re-roll on a break test. (sorry I'm uncertain about most of the facts, it's just that since I got skaven I have completely forgotten about lizards :p ). On top of that if they won combat (which they usually did with Sir slann the meatgrinder in the front rank and the temple guard fighting. Combat resolution usually ended up on my side) the enemy would automatically run because I usually outnumbered their untis :D. Using this unit I managed to tear both grimgore and Archaon apart in single combat, just challenged both of them with my higher toughness tons of wounds slann or even a temple gurad champion to protect my unit from the character and maintain numbers and when all was said and done I won combat making them run without a chance to roll a test. I have to say that unit was the highlight of all my games.

One of the meanest things I have ever seen was the ring of darkness (I think it is) on a dark elf dragon rider. all game he would not use this ring, then he'd charge right in the flank of the meanest unit the enemy had (or rear if he could manage it), and activate the ring at the end of his magic phase after his opponent had used up all of his/her dispel dice. This allowed him to not have his lord attacked back in combat and hardly anyone is gonna have much of a chance of hitting and wounding a dragon. so he negated ranks and took a lot less damage than he inflicted often times ending in the enemy unit failing its break test and the dragon flying home on a full belly.

BullBuchanan
14-04-2005, 23:30
Any bretonnian unit ;)

Grand Warlord
15-04-2005, 01:39
I hate to sound tacky... but the steam tank.. im not good enough with the cannon to take it out before it steam rolls me lol ... im working on my aim, and its hard for me to out manuver leading a mostly infantry army and all....

taer
15-04-2005, 01:47
The most difficult unit for my daemon army to deal with is large units of skeletons or anything unbreakable. Usually, I rely on flank and rear charges to make enemy lose combat and run away since I cause fear, and then fly them down. But with these units, I don't usually win by enough to make them die in droves if they are undead, nor are my units all that killy (My most invaluable unit being 15 furies, and they suck at killing things). And if I start losing combat, things start going downhill very fast.

Other than that, the only psycho-unkillable-unbreakable and dead-killy unit was Archaon. But he doesn't count. Because I say so.

Lord Lucifer
15-04-2005, 01:54
Sylvanian Zombies within 6" of all three grave markers.


I can damage a Steam Tank, I can slay Lizardmen with wanton abandon.
But a unit of Zombies with a 4+ save in combat, and four 2D6+2 raising spells a turn is nigh-on impossible to eliminate, or even bring down to half strength

It's the ultimate tar-pit, once it connects you're stuck there until Drakenhof Guard with two Vampires decide to flank you

Sylvanians are probably the least fun army to play against.

taer
15-04-2005, 01:56
Damn, my grave markers did crap when I played VC's. Power level 4 is too easy to dispell, and m opponent was smart enough not to worry about my weak regular casting abilities.

User Name
15-04-2005, 02:01
Chosen knights or warriors of khorne with a lord with anything

But the worst is slaanesh with a lord with pendant of slaanesh and blade of blood, geains the lost wounds back and gets more attacks for every time yo wound him if you take all the hits aganst him... my god it gets ugly

Black Ambience
15-04-2005, 16:57
The Lord of Change. No other Chaos unit (or perhaps even model in the game) gives you as much control over events as the giants winged bird of magical terror.

flytail
15-04-2005, 17:10
Ok the hardest unit I have fought so far was: A chaos beast.
It was that rare unit chaos can take that looks like a wierd mound of flesh, shoots flames, etc.

First game I lost to it becuase I got tied up by it with my 20 savage ork unit. Next time I did it! I just ran with the same unit for the god damn thing and started hacking at it with my orcs. Several rolls later, I smashed it under my choppa!!!

I guess my combo was dice rolling, and shouting.

Man what a rush to smash that thing to pieces.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
15-04-2005, 18:48
A unit of 25 ironbreakers with the rune of courage banner....its impossible to kill those guys, ugh.

Faust
15-04-2005, 18:55
Eh anything is a powerful unit when your only strength 3.
( Goes to figure out how White Lions got so strong)
High Elves

Faust

Stouty
15-04-2005, 19:02
25 dwarf warriors.
Hand weapon and shield
7pts each, tough 4, 3+ save in combat
For points they cost they're **** scary

Neknoh
15-04-2005, 19:13
Ok the hardest unit I have fought so far was: A chaos beast.
It was that rare unit chaos can take that looks like a wierd mound of flesh, shoots flames, etc.


Ah, the infamous Chaos Spawn upgraded to a Firewyrm of Tzeentch.

Remember for the next time, it might be T5 and have D6+1 attacks, it still has no armour, with enough attacks, you should be able to take it out... though my Fiend of Slaanesh stayed in close combat for 4 turns with a unit of Skellies and a frenzed Liche Priest.

As for the hardest unit I have played against... I must deffinately say that it was Grave Guard in 500 pts Border Patrol... though I took well equipped Chaos Warriors (add. HW and shield)... so I might have deserved that.

BullBuchanan
15-04-2005, 20:21
Eh anything is a powerful unit when your only strength 3.
( Goes to figure out how White Lions got so strong)
High Elves

Faust

Great Weapons :)

Wargamejunkie
15-04-2005, 20:32
Well they are strength 4 if I remember so they are a bit stronger than an average elf, or dwarf, or ork....

MarcoPollo
15-04-2005, 20:39
For me, I like Chosen chaos warriors of Slaanesh with Halberds and the Rapturous Standard (1/2 to enemies WS and I). 12 of these beauties can take a charge, and dish out a lot of pain (344 pts).

I play undivided and keep a nurgling unit close by incase I can combine the combat with them. They are skirmishers that give the cloud of flies special rule (-1 to hit against any unit in combat).

They make short work of many things (388 pts combined).

Neknoh
15-04-2005, 20:57
Dear Slaanesh!!!

Warriors of pleasure and deccadence siding with Nurglings, creatures of putrid ugglyness and mostly everything that stands as an opposite to the different Slaaneshi aspects!

But I do see the bonus of the enemy going down to half WS and having Cloud of Flies affect them

MVA
15-04-2005, 21:33
Unit of 20 Tomb Guard with the icon of rakaph and a Tomb King in the front rank with the destroyer of eternities.

Wow..I almost feel bad for using Sylvanians now.

Str10_hurts
15-04-2005, 22:00
Pike men anyone?

Or silverhelms with a standardbearer with banner of battle (d6 combat resolution) this unit flanking a unit is damn nasty! and its on movement 9! (and cheap)

Artemis_Quinn
15-04-2005, 22:28
I second the whole pikemen arguement

But I can think of the nastiest (or at least peskiest) high elf cavalry that makes yours look bad :D

Get a commander and give him the battle standard upgrade along with the lion guard honor. Then stick him in the front rank of a unit of Dragon Princes, give their leader the blessed tome. You can pick any combination of nasty things for the standard (such as making difficult terrain a thing of the past or giving the unit a magical resistance of (2)).

In effect this unit has a powerful charge and should things go down hill from there don't count on them running fom combat because they have a stubborn leadership of 10 that they can re-roll! Ah, so good to be an elf. (and I know there are some of you saying just wait till I get my fear or terror causing unit on them and we'll see them run, well another option as far as banners are concerned is that there is the lion banner that allows the unit to be immune to fear and terror :p Just eveil if you ask me)

Top that!

Festus
15-04-2005, 22:32
Hi

You wont believe:

Hobgoblin Wolfriders: A fast cav unit with a save of 4+, full command, real (24" range) bows and a whole lot of b@lls,
those guys have won me more games than I care to remember.

Greetings
Festus

scatterlaser
15-04-2005, 23:32
The nastiest unit for my undead (VC and TK) would probably have to be ye olde Slann-with-Temple-Guard-with-Fear-banner combo. Undead can't autobreak it, and getting 10 or so S5 attacks to the face tends to make you crumble pretty fast. Even if you flank/rear charge it, they'll still probably wear the undead down. About all they can do is either ignore/block it or somehow knock off all the Stubborn Temple Guard, which is easier said than done.

One of the nastiest all-round units I've seen would be a unit of 12 Knights of the Realm containing a War Banner, the Banner of the Lady and somebody with the +1CR Virtue. It usually starts with 3 ranks, a standard, outnumbering and +2 bonus CR, for a total of 7. Most enemies are going to have a standard, and that's it. Unless you redirect it or somehow tie it up, it'll autobreak nearly anything that's not Stubborn just by reducing their effective Ld to 1 or less. (If they're not killy enough, upgrade them to Grail Knights.)

taer
16-04-2005, 03:40
I once played against God, and he brought Satan (Think bloodthirster who hadn't had coffee yet) for the general of his Daemon army. Needless to say he kicked my ass. Then he asked if I wanted a re-match against his all flying angel circus. Then he cast Final Judgement, and I lost my leadership test (-3 because I am chaos), and therefore my army was vaporized and sent to hell, where the Bloodthirster Satan beat me to a pulp again. Then I had to fight Archaon over and over again.

twisted_mentat
16-04-2005, 04:24
I've had great success with a 20 strong unit of inner circle Tuetogen guard...oh they're not as nasty as khorne chosen warriors or Sauruses, but for humans....S5, stubbron, Strikes on I....works out pretty well...

Slappy
16-04-2005, 04:52
Then I had to fight Archaon over and over again.

I'm starting to assume you have good times when he is fielded against you.

TheHood
16-04-2005, 04:57
The Dark Elf Manticore.

My Greenskins can do nothing to counter it.
It flicks behind my lines, charging my rear, causing terror tests, getting rid of my large rank bonus... the thing is unbearable.

I take a largely foot army, and I have nothing that can counter it.

I hate it, hate it with a passion.

Slappy
16-04-2005, 05:04
What about an Elector Count on a Griffon? It seems to do the same.

Except Orcs and Gobbos have a really easy time dealing with it. It's called Goblin bolt throwers. Those do D3 wounds. Fire a few at it (with +1 to hit) and you will kill the rider or the manticore in no time.

taer
16-04-2005, 05:06
A lone orc character on foot with a Great Weapon and the Collar of Zorga hanging in the back of your lines seems to be the solution you are looking for. (360 degree sight arc, Immunity from the Manticore eating you, and a Big Axe for cutting up the girly elf on top, more than a nice killer)


Oh, and for the record, I just love fighting Archaon. :rolleyes:

Warlord Gnashgrod
16-04-2005, 20:55
As a Skaven player, Heavy knights are usually my bane. They're faster, have a high armor save, and pack a hideous punch in hth. The best I can usually do is to try and tie them up somehow and blast them with my guns/magic.

lord_blackfang
16-04-2005, 21:10
20 Skeletons led by a Tomb Prince are god enough for me... last game, they broke Chosen Khorne Knights, killed a regular Khorne Khight unit, a unit of Flesh Hounds and a unit of Furies. The Dragon got away though.

chivalrous
16-04-2005, 21:31
If I'm honest I have real problems, as a Dark Elf Player, with High Elf Spearmen in blocks of about 20, especially when arranged in a 5x4 block.
15 attacks if I charge, 10 if they charge. They may only be S3 but my troops have T3. It's difficult to get a flank charge on them because of the rest of the High Elf armies mobility (famously faster than Dark Elves) and they won't panic!!

Coming in a close second are Undead Spearmen for similar reasons, only less trouble because the rest of their army is slower, they only fight in 2 ranks and they have a lower weaponskill.

Faust
16-04-2005, 23:07
@chivalrous

Yes its all nice and dandy with High Elves, except when you get the points cost for that unit you just described there which should come out to an even 250 pts. for those High Elf spearmen. And Hatred is better than Stoic most days out of the year, the only thing that High Elves can hold above the Dark Elves are the magic items and Magic that we get.
Silver Helms by the way are only movement 8 due to barded steeds. They do not have ilthimar barding as the dragon princes do.
Faust

Lord_Sanguinius
17-04-2005, 04:37
i hate archaon and valten. they both need to permenently die. no matter how hard i try against valten its hit wound wound heal wound wound heal.

Eldacar
17-04-2005, 09:33
And Valten has his big hammer to smack you with.

My most useful unit is Eagles. They are the most feared unit in my army among friends.

The units I hate most are cheesy things like Blood Dragon Lords on Zombie Dragons with the Cursed Book, Tzeentch Lords on Chaos Dragons with the Staff of Tzeentch and Golden Eye of Tzeentch, and then there's the Bloodthirster. Those three units (or characters, or whatever) are my most hated units.

Of course, High Elf Dragon Princes can be nasty, as can Swordmasters. And there's always the option of going very beardy and give a Prince/Commander the Swordmaster honour and a Longbow. He can make ranged shots, plus has the KB special rule with the bow, and in CC, he can rip stuff up.

daryl_ks
19-04-2005, 01:09
Why hate a bloodthirster... IMHO they are just a big bloody points-sink for your opponent... If he is willing to sink that many points into a single unit, then it just makes it easier for you to avoid that and destroy the litttle he has left...


Cheers!

Daryl

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
19-04-2005, 02:02
Great unclean one....oh man....i hate thos things. They are easier to killl than things mentioned before but GOD do i HATE the fact that it has 10 wounds

taer
19-04-2005, 19:48
Why hate a bloodthirster... IMHO they are just a big bloody points-sink for your opponent... If he is willing to sink that many points into a single unit, then it just makes it easier for you to avoid that and destroy the litttle he has left...


Cheers!

Daryl

Avoid him? :confused: You do know he flies right? How the hell do you avoid something that flies? (Really, I want to know, then I won't have to stress about fliers ever again)

daryl_ks
19-04-2005, 20:24
Avoid him? :confused: You do know he flies right? How the hell do you avoid something that flies? (Really, I want to know, then I won't have to stress about fliers ever again)


Geeeeezeee!!! Do I have to explain this again!!!!

Look... all ou do to AVOID him is you look across at your opponent and say...

"WHAT!!! A Bloodthirster... you can't be serious... That is sooooooooo cheesy.... And he isn't even painted yet!!! I'll bet you 5 bucks you couldn't win without him...."

there you go... avoidance!


Actually, in all seriousness... just get something with lots of toughness and wounds and try and tie him up for a little while... of course he will probably just avoid that and go straight for cleanup duty on your other pathetic little units... and then game over...

Cheers!

Daryl

Scythe
20-04-2005, 18:38
The nastiest unit for my undead (VC and TK) would probably have to be ye olde Slann-with-Temple-Guard-with-Fear-banner combo. Undead can't autobreak it, and getting 10 or so S5 attacks to the face tends to make you crumble pretty fast. Even if you flank/rear charge it, they'll still probably wear the undead down. About all they can do is either ignore/block it or somehow knock off all the Stubborn Temple Guard, which is easier said than done.


This is one of the few cases when its worth to bring out the Hell Banner. A terror causing unit causes fear in a fear causing unit. Make the unit big, put in a vampire, and make sure you win combat. It will probably only work once, but that's all you need, right?

For me, my most effective unit would be my 30 strong skeleton unit led bya blood dragon vampire count/lord. There's nothing they can't kill/run down.

Gorog Irongut
22-04-2005, 08:59
My unit of doom is:
14 Ironbreakers with champion and s. bearer w/ the rune of +1 CR
Dwarf lord w/ 2+ rerollable AS, 4+ ward and a weapon that negates armour saves
BSB w/ the standard of +1 CR, immune to psych, and master rune of valaya

The lord protects the BSB and the BSB makes certain that there is no airy fairy magic floating around the field (see master rune of valaya). The unit itself is cheap for what it does (ironbreakers for 13 pts=goodness) and what they can't take care of, the Lord squishes.

This unit is particularly good for finishing of heavy cavalry units.

3 ranks
standard
+2 CR due to magical stuff
Everyone is a minimum of WS 5 S 4 T 4 w/ a 2+ AS in close combat

Please come bounce off of me.

Scanno
22-04-2005, 11:16
My favourite unit is a bit cheaper (not much) than most mentioned here. 20 orc big'uns with spears and shields led by a fighty character with great axe and drogs dead ard armour. Give them the banner of buthcery and things that charge them WILL die. I took a smaller version of this to a tournament (16 orcs, cheaper char) and watched the utter surprise on an empire generals face as 8 knights of the inner circel bounced off them in one round of combat.

maxwell123
22-04-2005, 14:38
The most powerful individual unit I use would have to be my unit of 9 Grail Knights (inc standard & musician), which includes my general.

General: Bretonnian Lord on barded warhorse, Grail Vow, hand weapon, Silver Lance of the Blessed (auto hits), heavy armour, Grail Shield (4+ ward).

It's a very costly unit (593 pts total including general), but is incredibly powerful.
On charge, unit will cause 4 auto S6 hits (general), have another 12 WS5 S6 attacks, plus 7 WS3 S3 attacks from the warhorses.
This unit can rip through ANY non-stubborn/non-unbreakable unit with great ease and that includes the likes of Chosen Chaos Knights, Ogres, etc.
You need to roll pretty badly to not break your opponent on the charge with a unit of 9 Grail Knights.

taer
22-04-2005, 17:30
Erm, I suppose the most "powerful" unit I run would have to be my unit of 15 furies. Guess I don't really run powerful units very often :)

m1s1n
22-04-2005, 20:00
I don't run powerful units--I run effective units. I think that "powerful" is such of a broad scoping term that it can really encapsulate almost every unit in Warhammer. Every unit has some major power and weakness in the context of its own army. For example, an individual Goblin may not be a heavy hitter--or even "powerful"--on its own. However, that same Goblin supported by 39 others is a completely different context. Furthermore, those 40 Goblins may not seem to be as "powerful" as Grail Knights, but the Goblins cost a 1/3rd of the points (okay, I don't have the Bret book nearby, so just go with me on that one).

There are certain units that people could point out as being fairly ineffective, but that's a different thread. My ultimate point is this--given the context of the army every unit is effective--even "powerful"--in its own regard, it comes down to how you play them on the field that really decides "power".

the_night_reaper
26-04-2005, 21:07
ok how ever many points in chosen chaos knights with mark of nurgle. that would be about 20 meaning unit S40 causing fear and 2 S5 hits and 1 S4 per model not including the champion who gets 3 S5 hits and 1 S4(horse). and warbanner.
OR
CC tooled daemon prince in a unit of about 30 furies can probably clear up that slaan unit no problem.
OR
Archaon ecspecially when he gets the orange fire spell(yes for those of you who don't know archaon is a lvl 2 sorceror also)

Artemis_Quinn
26-04-2005, 21:33
Don't think your deamon unit or your knight unit could expect to beat the slann unit detailed at the beginning of this thread, partially because it's not gonna break and partially because your deamon prince would be toast after it was challenged with the slann. And if you refuse my challenge then I'm not too worried about losing temple guards, if I remember correctly they had a 3+ save, so they'll prevent half of the damage you cause (because of hand weapon and sheild) and return a descent amount as well. And whereas we'll say you have a rear charge they still get my ranks and a standard. Plus, say you outnumber me and coused one extra wound than they did, that means tied combat and they have a musician :p (this is against the deamon prince unit)

Against the knights, there's 20 of them so I'm assuming 5 wide 4 deep? Well, say you get a flank on the unit (which would never happen since the slann unit would pay special attention to such a large cluster of chaos knights, chosen ones at that)..... The champion is challenged, so now there are eight str5 attacks and 4 str4 attacks, We'll say 2 wounds on temple guard with no wounds back (giving them the benefit of the doubt since you did miraculously get a flank charge) (nothing will happen in the challenge, even though it should). so you've got 2 wounds a flank and 3 ranks on them, geeze! They're down 6! But they're stubborn and get to roll twice for breaks so odds are they pass the break test. Well, Next round Slann gets flaming sword, and does some mean crap to your champion in combat (something like 3-4 wounds), we'll say temple guard get one and you get 2 again. You win combat again, but yet again they pass the break test. Eventually one of two things are gonna happen, the slann is gonna get POed and hack away swaths of people at a time (next casting of the sword, eventually negating your ranks and outnumbering), or they're gonna win a round of combat and eventually prevail, either way Slann unit prevails.

I've seen this unit take care of Archaon and his mean knights before, they can do it again. Though it is a struggle, since he has sooooo many ways to get out of such a predicament as being locked in combat forever. But I think I'd bet on slann unit.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
26-04-2005, 23:14
how about a unit of 10,000 gnoblars?

WLBjork
02-05-2005, 10:11
Everyone is a minimum of WS 5 S 4 T 4 w/ a 2+ AS in close combat

Please come bounce off of me.

Except the BSB, who is at best 4+ (bounce!).

With Special Characters: Large block of Ironbreakers lead by the High King Thorgrim Grudge Bearer (Stubborn, Hatred, otherwise Immune to Psychology), plus a BSB with Master Rune of Stromni Redbeard, Rune of Kadrin and Rune of Battle. Unit Standard has Rune of Battle and Rune of Sanctuary. Guarrenteed minimum of +4CR.

Without Special Characters: Dwarf Lord with Hammerers. Lord has Master Rune of Steel, Rune of Stone and Master Rune of Spite coupled with a Great Weapon. Standards are same as above.

Gorog Irongut
02-05-2005, 11:01
Except the BSB, who is at best 4+ (bounce!).

Yes, I did forget about him. But that's why he's stuck between my general and my champion.